Are SVS subs over-rated?

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

So everywhere that i go online, the SVS subs are the first to be recommended for both home theatre and audiophile use.

My understanding is that they 'only' cost $500 USD and this is why they are a good purchase - or have i been mislead and there is something else truly great about the brand?

I have a SB1000 myself that i purchased for about $500USD since it was on sale due to not being a pro model (and it was brand new), even though in Australia a brand you SVS SB1000 pro costs roughly 700-750 USD.

Now i'm wondering, what exact benefits does this subwoofer has over everything else? Apart from the bluetooth application - is there perhaps something inside that separates it from the rest?

I mean, I think that it's good, but i've never had anything else to compare it, so i guess i just 'blindly followed' a trend?

 

[Katji]

Internet hype, you see the name pretty much every time subwoofers are mentioned. Value for money

 

[NiagaraPete]

is that they 'only' cost $500 USD and this is why they are a good purchase

Some are much more than that. Yes they are good subs and there are others.

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Internet hype, you see the name pretty much every time subwoofers are mentioned. Value for money

That's the thing though, i've heard people say that these are not regular 'noise makers' like the cheaper Klipsch and Yamaha subwoofers - that there is 'something special' about them.

Took me a while to figure out that these are just cheaper than other subs in the USA because they come (or used to come) directly from the supplier with no middle man, sort of like Emotiva?

The thing is I do like everything about the sub that i have, including the high pass filter, speaker level input, etc - it's actually good i think... does it make movies sound good? Hell yeah it does... but is it better than an Yamaha or Klipsch sub? I'm not sure.

Some are much more than that. Yes they are good subs and there are others.

Thing is that i'd only paid like $650 AUD for this sub, brand-new on clearance - they normally cost $1000-1200 AUD.. Honestly not sure if they are worth THAT much... if you catch my drift?

$650? that's reasonable... it's the equivalent of purchasing a brand new SVS SB1000 for about $250-275 USD, taking into consideration the discrepancies between minimum wage in australia as well as currency conversion etc.

 

[_thelaughingman]

That's the thing though, i've heard people say that these are not regular 'noise makers' like the cheaper Klipsch and Yamaha subwoofers - that there is 'something special' about them.

Took me a while to figure out that these are just cheaper than other subs in the USA because they come (or used to come) directly from the supplier with no middle man, sort of like Emotiva?

The thing is I do like everything about the sub that i have, including the high pass filter, speaker level input, etc - it's actually good i think... does it make movies sound good? Hell yeah it does... but is it better than an Yamaha or Klipsch sub? I'm not sure.


Thing is that i'd only paid like $650 AUD for this sub, brand-new on clearance - they normally cost $1000-1200 AUD.. Honestly not sure if they are worth THAT much... if you catch my drift?

Do you own a Yamaha or Klipsch sub to compare the sound, or you're making an assumption that the name brand has pedigree, thus it's better? Just curious to know the reasoning.

I happen to own a PB-1000Pro, couple with an onboard DSP, the SVS definitely is one of the better implementations of subs.

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Do you own a Yamaha or Klipsch sub to compare the sound, or you're making an assumption that the name brand has pedigree, thus it's better? Just curious to know the reasoning.

I happen to own a PB-1000Pro, couple with an onboard DSP, the SVS definitely is one of the better implementations of subs.

That's what i am saying - I don't know.

I was told on another forum to not purchase anything but an SVS sub since they are simply noise makers - so like those Klipsch ones that are wayyy cheaper, etc is what the dude meant obviously and not something like REL or KEF...

Like i said if you read my posts, I own an SB1000 (non pro) and enjoy is thoroughly - although i've never owned anything cheaper than that in terms of HT use.. sure as hell beats the sub on my Z623 or Edifier S350DB, but that's a given...

 

[_thelaughingman]

That's what i am saying - I don't know.

I was told on another forum to not purchase anything but an SVS sub since they are simply noise makers - so like those Klipsch ones that are wayyy cheaper, etc is what the dude meant obviously and not something like REL or KEF...

Like i said if you read my posts, I own an SB1000 (non pro) and enjoy is thoroughly - although i've never owned anything cheaper than that in terms of HT use.. sure as hell beats the sub on my Z623 or Edifier S350DB, but that's a given...

Ahh, catch ya drift now. I love my SVS, heck it can go down to 23hz for some decent sub bass.

 

[ryanosaur]

In general, I would say a major part of the SVS Love-Fest is due to their Customer Bill Of Rights and generally very good customer service, overall.

Comparing to Klipsch and Polk (for the most part, as there are some exceptions with newer Klipsch Subs), there IS an absolute difference that can be seen in honest measurements. Most of those lower tier Klipsch and Polk Subs earned the moniker of Fart Box.

Subs like SVS, Monolith, Rythmik, Hsu all get recommended on mostly equal footing. Arendal is breaking into that club with their gear being very good performers, too. A lot of folk love PSA, too, but I have yet to see any 3rd party measurements that allow for a fair comparison to other Subs.

Looking at it from a slightly different perspective, most Speaker-first" companies which do not specialize in performance Subs, usually don't make great Subs. When you look at performance metrics, compared to Subs like those from SVS and Monolith (as example) you can clearly see the differences.

In the end, you really need to account for the goals you have for your system and what your value is on Bass. I listen to Pipe Organ and some Electronica, so I have a different demand than a person that is only listening to Jazz, Blues, Rock and/or other orchestral Music. I also double time my system with a little HT and gaming. For me, Subs capable of Infrasonic Bass output is an absolute requirement.
For others, just filling in that octave and-a-half below a Monitor is all that is required.

Anyway, getting back to SVS, they do specialize first in Subs. They added Speakers later in the game. Their Subs are quality, at least by everybody else I know that uses them.
All that said, You pay a premium for SVS because you also are paying for that Bill of Rights. Free Shipping to you, possible return shipping, upgrade within a year.... I know guys who had SVS send them a new Amp well outside of the warranty when it failed: No Charge!
Once you get into their ecosystem, you can see ho it may be hard to walk away... Especially if you ever benefited from their "generosity."

End of the day, when I talk Sub recommendations, I always challenge the person I'm talking to to define their goals and expectations Budget, especially. Determine what you need to connect in your System ( RCA or XLR, Speaker Level, Etc), Placement locations, size restrictions... effectively the ergonomics of the Sub (like, can you carry a 150-200# Sub up or down a flight of stairs?!).
Then, look at what fits your needs. Perhaps have an "upgrade selection" too.

 

[Sancus]

SVS subs are widely available in many sizes, work well, and have OK pricing. Those 3 things are important. Rythmik subs are great for example, but they're not widely available, so you can't even recommend them without checking that the person is in the US first.

Same reason you see Neumann and Genelec recommended widely, but not M.E. Geithain or other niche brands with weak distribution.

The idea that there is some huge quality difference between subs is also inaccurate. Most sealed subs or larger ported subs from any known manufacturer are going to perform similarly within the same size class. The differences are smaller than speakers because subs are honestly just simpler to build. Because low bass is omnidirectional and easily played by a single driver.

 

[bkdc]

It’s a good sub and at good value. And it’s a sub! It creates omnidirectional sound at a frequency in which your ear can tolerate a lot of distortion!

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Ahh, catch ya drift now. I love my SVS, heck it can go down to 23hz for some decent sub bass.

Yeah, apparently the SVS SB1000 Pro can go down even lower, although I think 23 Hz is pretty low - heck even my tower speakers can create a fair bit of rumble and they only go down to 45Hz..

In general, I would say a major part of the SVS Love-Fest is due to their Customer Bill Of Rights and generally very good customer service, overall.

Comparing to Klipsch and Polk (for the most part, as there are some exceptions with newer Klipsch Subs), there IS an absolute difference that can be seen in honest measurements. Most of those lower tier Klipsch and Polk Subs earned the moniker of Fart Box.

Subs like SVS, Monolith, Rythmik, Hsu all get recommended on mostly equal footing. Arendal is breaking into that club with their gear being very good performers, too. A lot of folk love PSA, too, but I have yet to see any 3rd party measurements that allow for a fair comparison to other Subs.

Looking at it from a slightly different perspective, most Speaker-first" companies which do not specialize in performance Subs, usually don't make great Subs. When you look at performance metrics, compared to Subs like those from SVS and Monolith (as example) you can clearly see the differences.

In the end, you really need to account for the goals you have for your system and what your value is on Bass. I listen to Pipe Organ and some Electronica, so I have a different demand than a person that is only listening to Jazz, Blues, Rock and/or other orchestral Music. I also double time my system with a little HT and gaming. For me, Subs capable of Infrasonic Bass output is an absolute requirement.
For others, just filling in that octave and-a-half below a Monitor is all that is required.

Anyway, getting back to SVS, they do specialize first in Subs. They added Speakers later in the game. Their Subs are quality, at least by everybody else I know that uses them.
All that said, You pay a premium for SVS because you also are paying for that Bill of Rights. Free Shipping to you, possible return shipping, upgrade within a year.... I know guys who had SVS send them a new Amp well outside of the warranty when it failed: No Charge!
Once you get into their ecosystem, you can see ho it may be hard to walk away... Especially if you ever benefited from their "generosity."

End of the day, when I talk Sub recommendations, I always challenge the person I'm talking to to define their goals and expectations Budget, especially. Determine what you need to connect in your System ( RCA or XLR, Speaker Level, Etc), Placement locations, size restrictions... effectively the ergonomics of the Sub (like, can you carry a 150-200# Sub up or down a flight of stairs?!).
Then, look at what fits your needs. Perhaps have an "upgrade selection" too.

Yeah it's interesting because for example both Klipsch and Polk have some very decent speakers in their line up, both for music AND home theatre application(s).

Thing about SVS is that their speakers look to be the goods also - I've never used them, but judging by the quality of the exterior I'd think they are serious about that as well?

Once again, no complains from me, and I own one, so I may be biased towards the product range - so that's why i started this thread.

SVS subs are widely available in many sizes, work well, and have OK pricing. Those 3 things are important. Rythmik subs are great for example, but they're not widely available, so you can't even recommend them without checking that the person is in the US first.

Same reason you see Neumann and Genelec recommended widely, but not M.E. Geithain or other niche brands with weak distribution.

The idea that there is some huge quality difference between subs is also inaccurate. Most sealed subs or larger ported subs from any known manufacturer are going to perform similarly within the same size class. The differences are smaller than speakers because subs are honestly just simpler to build. Because low bass is omnidirectional and easily played by a single driver.

Yeah that's what i mean, how much better is a PB-1000 than a regular old Klipsch 12 inch subwoofer? People online would always suggest to go with the SVS, but would this stand a test of scrutiny that took all other things into account?

It’s a good sub and at good value. And it’s a sub! It creates omnidirectional sound at a frequency in which your ear can tolerate a lot of distortion!

Yeah but there are much cheaper subwoofers out there - these cost 1000-1200 brand new in Australia - and you can get 12 inch subwoofer for wayyy less, like 300-400 AUD..

 

[DamianW]

Massive hype but there is an aspect of value for money.
They are marketed for home cinema and they provide plenty of output and rumble for explosions.
But I wouldn't consider them for music.

The sealed SVS subs have heaps of low end distortion and group delay which appears to be due to massive amounts of bass boost.
Think the sunfire subs.
The ported versions are better but still have issues with group delay and don't sound as clean and tight as a good sub.

Hence both the sealed and ported SVS subs don't blend well with speakers (cancelations and peaks) unless you use a high pass filter for your speakers.

 

[DMill]

They are great subs that measure good and innovate. At their price they are no brainers for many. Are there better? Maybe. Very few of us have had the luxury of comparing HSU, rythmik, JL labs, and too many more to list side by side.

 

[tw 2022]

Massive hype but there is an aspect of value for money.
They are marketed for home cinema and they provide plenty of output and rumble for explosions.
But I wouldn't consider them for music.

The sealed SVS subs have heaps of low end distortion and group delay which appears to be due to massive amounts of bass boost.
Think the sunfire subs.
The ported versions are better but still have issues with group delay and don't sound as clean and tight as a good sub.

Hence both the sealed and ported SVS subs don't blend well with speakers (cancelations and peaks) unless you use a high pass filter for your speakers.

Hi pass filtering is pretty standard stuff... Let's not pretend it's hard to do with modern avr's available... The svs pb 1000 pro is just fine with music...

 

[DamianW]

Hi pass filtering is pretty standard stuff... Let's not pretend it's hard to do with modern avr's available... The svs pb 1000 pro is just fine with music...

I didn't suggest it wasn't but plenty of people want to run there main speakers full range in addition to a sub.

 

[tw 2022]

They are great subs that measure good and innovate. At their price they are no brainers for many. Are there better? Maybe. Very few of us have had the luxury of comparing HSU, rythmik, JL labs, and too many more to list side by side.

Agreed, at their intended level of use they are pretty much par for the course...

 

[tw 2022]

I didn't suggest it wasn't but plenty of people want to run there main speakers full range in addition to a sub.

That's certainly an option, no disrespect intended, i just didn't want people who are " new" to this to think they are difficult to use...

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

Massive hype but there is an aspect of value for money.
They are marketed for home cinema and they provide plenty of output and rumble for explosions.
But I wouldn't consider them for music.

The sealed SVS subs have heaps of low end distortion and group delay which appears to be due to massive amounts of bass boost.
Think the sunfire subs.
The ported versions are better but still have issues with group delay and don't sound as clean and tight as a good sub.

Hence both the sealed and ported SVS subs don't blend well with speakers (cancelations and peaks) unless you use a high pass filter for your speakers.

How do you know about the low-end distortion and group delay? Is this something that you can back up with measurements? I have heard that the DSP in some (mainly the new 'pro' series causes delay.

They are great subs that measure good and innovate. At their price they are no brainers for many. Are there better? Maybe. Very few of us have had the luxury of comparing HSU, rythmik, JL labs, and too many more to list side by side.

Have you compared them to the HSUs etc?

Hi pass filtering is pretty standard stuff... Let's not pretend it's hard to do with modern avr's available... The svs pb 1000 pro is just fine with music...

My PB1000 has a high-pass filter.

I didn't suggest it wasn't but plenty of people want to run there main speakers full range in addition to a sub.

So what's the issue then? I've done this plenty of times by plugging the subout or preout to the sub.. or even using the high pass filter.

 

[DamianW]

How do you know about the low-end distortion and group delay? Is this something that you can back up with measurements? I have heard that the DSP in some (mainly the new 'pro' series causes delay.

Have you compared them to the HSUs etc?

My PB1000 has a high-pass filter.

So what's the issue then? I've done this plenty of times by plugging the subout or preout to the sub.. or even using the high pass filter.

Audioholics have an very good in-depth test of sealed vs ported svs with extensive measurements.

I haven't heard HSU or seen any detailed measurements for them.

You end up with cancellations and peaks ie uneven in room response. This is reduced with using a high pass filter.

What is your budget and how many subs were you planning on using?

 

[tw 2022]

How do you know about the low-end distortion and group delay? Is this something that you can back up with measurements? I have heard that the DSP in some (mainly the new 'pro' series causes delay.

Have you compared them to the HSUs etc?

My PB1000 has a high-pass filter.

So what's the issue then? I've done this plenty of times by plugging the subout or preout to the sub.. or even using the high pass filter.

Yeah exactly..