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An Android device as a touchscreen network streamer...

BillG

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#1
A few days ago I stumbled across a video of Darko discussing using an LG V30 smartphone as a network streamer. Since I don't trust him very much, nor do I care for his presentation style, I decided to experiment with the idea myself. By the way, the following site conducts some performance analysis on the audio subsystems of various mobile devices: https://www.gsmarena.com


Any Android smartphone or tablet running the appropriate software would fit the bill.

1. Download and install BubbleUPnP on it.

2. Within Bubble's settings, ensure that the device is setup as a "local renderer". It should be set up that way as a default. But just in case, I'll include a screenshot below for clarification.

3. Attach the Android device to the DAC/pre-amp/amp via whatever method is applicable. In my particular instance, I just attached my tablet to my integrated amp via the headphone jack into the aux port on the amp.

4. Ensure that Bubble is actually running on the device.

5. Launch whatever DLNA compatible streaming application one wishes to use on another device, select the Android running Bubble as the output device, and away you go.

BubbleUPnP local renderer settings:

71950217_2719728848039879_687153870681407488_o.jpg


A screenshot of a streaming application on my phone referencing my tablet as a playback device:

72623289_2719733108039453_8119667232507691008_o.jpg
 
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Fledermaus

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#2
Worked for me too :



Samsung Galaxy as a renderer with an OTG cable to the DAC then XLR to active Focal monitors and the usual tablet as a control point, all under BubbleUPnP accessing Qobuz, Webradios and NAS (do not forget to put the phone in airplane mode, otherwise the ringing in the speakers all of a sudden might be of some annoyance)!
 

sergeauckland

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#3
I use my tablet running Jive/SqueezePlay as a Squeezebox emulator. I've measured the internal DAC of the tablet, and it's quite good enough for transparency, so I use the headphone jack output.

Jive works just like a real squeezebox, which I can control locally or remotely using any of the remote controllers. I prefer Soundicity, but others will work as well.

In my main system, I use a real Squeezebox Touch, but in my study or workshop systems, the tablet works just fine.

S.
 

GioF71

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#4
While I totally respect Mr Darko and enjoy watching his videos, I would never use an android device as a network streamer.
See @6.30 or so, he says Roon has to convert 24bit to 16bit even if his phone is MQA enabled.

I think the V30 handles MQA with a specific app, which needs to bypass the android audio stack.
So IMO it's not surprising that Roon reports the need to convert from 24bit to 16bit. The Roon app probably can't bypass the android audio stack, at least on that specific setup.

So back the OP, I think BubbleUpnp as a renderer will suffer the same problem.
With SBCs so cheap these days, I see no reason to not build one to act as a dlna renderer. There is also RoPieee XL now to help anybody build one without having to deal with linux text editors if that's an issue.

And, about the "display" aspect, one could dedicate an android device as a BubbleUpnp control point. Let's call it "DISPLAY DEVICE" and let's assume the dlna renderer is a RoPieee instance.
On the DISPLAY DEVICE, you need to start Bubbleupnp and set the renderer to the RoPieee instance. Let BubbleUpnp display the "Now Playing" tab all the time. Now the "DISPLAY DEVICE" acts as a display for what's playing on the RoPieee renderer.
You can still use your phone with BubbleUpnp with the RoPieee as the renderer and control what's playing, see metadata etc.
The "DISPLAY DEVICE" will show what RoPieee is playing, and the Android audio stack won't be involved.

If roon is what one needs, a Raspberry PI with the standard RoPieee installation can be equipped with a touch display for similar results. If I understood correctly, you can also setup a RoPieee instance to act merely as a display connected to another RoPieee instance (the endpoint)
 
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BillG

BillG

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Thread Starter #5
So back the OP, I think BubbleUpnp as a renderer will suffer the same problem.

BubbleUPnP includes an option to "resample to the native samplerate" within the Local Renderer settings, with an option for "Very high quality resampling".

As to what you would or wouldn't use, that's your problem... :p
 

GioF71

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#6
I personally don't like to have to necessarily resample. That's of course my problem.
I'm not criticising your setup. I just wanted to warn users about the limitations of android. The setup is fine with no resampling as long as you don't play more than 16bit/44.1kHz.
Sorry if my post could appear as a critique, that was not my intention, please accept my apologies if that was the case.
 

doctorjuggles

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#7
Nice post @BillG
Not sure if this is any use to you (or others) but I’ve often found devicespecifications.com to be helpful (although slightly less so recently as companies hide DAC data etc.)

For example, check out the “audio” section of the LG V20 here - includes DAC model and resolution. Dry data but useful imo
 

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#8

ahofer

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#9
Can an Android tablet output digital data via the USB? Or some other method?

Perhaps this could be accomplished with an Odroid running Bubble as a local renderer.
 
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GioF71

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#10
I knew about USB Audio Player Pro but I did not know about the UPnP renderer feature. Thank you
 

Berwhale

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#11
Can an Android tablet output digital data via the USB? Or some other method?
Yes, Android devices that support USB OTG (On The Go) can run an external device like a DAC. UAPP has the ability to talk directly to the DAC and bypasss the limitations of the Android audio system. For example, I can plug my Radsone ES100 or Fiio BTR3 into my phone and run either as an external DAC.
 

ahofer

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#12
Yes, Android devices that support USB OTG (On The Go) can run an external device like a DAC. UAPP has the ability to talk directly to the DAC and bypasss the limitations of the Android audio system. For example, I can plug my Radsone ES100 or Fiio BTR3 into my phone and run either as an external DAC.
Wired USB, not wireless, to be clear?
 

Berwhale

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#13
Wired USB, not wireless, to be clear?
Yes, here's a picture of my ES100 with the cable plugged in ready to connect to my Galaxy Note 9. As soon as I plug it in UAPP asks me if I want to use UAPP with it by default...

20191008_120249.jpg
 
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#16
I have done this with my Pixel phones and tablets. I personally found the tablet to work better for me for two primary reasons: 1. The screen is much larger, and 2. The battery in the tablet lasts much longer. There is the added benefit that my phone is not tied to my music system so I am free to go about my business.
 
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BillG

BillG

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Thread Starter #17
Can an Android tablet output digital data via the USB? Or some other method?
Yes, but it requires an OTG adapter/cable to do so if I recall correctly. Surprisingly though, a lot of Android devices have pretty good line level output from their headphone port if one doesn't have OTG accessories on hand to use for USB output... :cool:
 
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BillG

BillG

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Thread Starter #18
Since Bubble has Chromecast built in I just use it that way.
As would most people who own a Chromecast - talk about stating the obvious. However, not everyone does, and the method I've outlined is a great way to repurpose a device that would otherwise just be laying around in a drawer... :rolleyes:
 

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#19
The discontinuation of Chromecast Audio is disturbing. Google has abandoned several products on me (remember Google Notes?).

Of course, DLNA/UPnP is also a mostly abandoned protocol, but at least it is an *open* protocol. The Chromecast key is already out there, according to a friend, but you couldn’t sell something as Chromecast-enabled without paying some licensing, I think.

Streaming standards are in limbo.
 
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BillG

BillG

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The discontinuation of Chromecast Audio is disturbing.
It could be somewhat disturbing to some people I'd imagine. However, there's speculation that the yet-to-be-released Google Nest Mini will include optical output - think a Chromecast Audio with a built-in speaker and microphone for voice interaction. And even if that doesn't turn out to be true, I believe the protocol will be supported for decades to come given the number of devices with Chromecast built-in that are available currently - this would run into the hundreds of millions if we included televisions.

Of course, DLNA/UPnP is also a mostly abandoned protocol
I'm going to have to differ with you on this one: DLNA/UPnP is often offered side-by-side with whatever other streaming protocols manufacturers include in their products as a backup. And I don't see that changing any time soon. NAS products routinely offer it as well.

Streaming standards are in limbo.
I see them as more a mess right now really. I moderate a Facebook group dedicated to streaming audio, and have encountered so many different protocols that it can be a little hard to keep track - just off of the top of my head right now, I can think of at least 7. Every manufacturer wants to differentiate themselves somehow, and one of the ways they do it with streaming products to be promote some "new & improved" streaming protocol. However, I suspect the vast majority of them are just DLNA/UPnP derivatives; my observations of DLNA/UPnP being offered as a backup leads me to believe this. However, I've not dug into the specifications of each new protocol to verify this... :cool:
 
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