Aimpire AD10: Fake Topping D10 DAC?

[amirm]

Do you think it's lower binned parts/boards that've failed validation testing and being sold of to entities that'll take them on? Or are these clones of actual hardware?

I don't know. I have asked them the question.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Do you think it's lower binned parts/boards that've failed validation testing and being sold of to entities that'll take them on? Or are these clones of actual hardware?

No. Period. I took intern in topping and asked them personally. It's completely fake and counterfeit.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Even the guts look similar:

Top: Aimpire AD10 (courtesy Reddit user andrewrp)
Bottom: Topping D10 (courtesy Amir)

Some chips in the AD10 are unlabeled -- maybe generic parts that make all the difference?

Edit: Looks like RayDunzl made this comparison in another thread several weeks ago:

 

[JohnYang1997]

Even the guts look similar:

Top: Aimpire AD10 (courtesy Reddit user andrewrp)
Bottom: Topping D10 (courtesy Amir)

Some chips in the AD10 are unlabeled -- maybe generic parts that make all the difference?

Stop posting these pictures.
They just copied the component layout. They didn't bother to measure the resistor and capacitor values, as well as other less quality parts hence worse performance.

 

[sweetchaos]

I bought the "Topping D10" = real one from Amazon.ca on Nov 29, 2019.
The listing had the correct picture and description, and I got an authentic unit.

I just looked at the SAME listing and it shows:

So any Canadians...watch out!

 

[infinitesymphony]

Stop posting these pictures.
They just copied the component layout. They didn't bother to measure the resistor and capacitor values, as well as other less quality parts hence worse performance.

I just read through your replies in the other thread. That makes sense.

Mostly I am curious to know how many component differences can be spotted just by looking. Even the PCBs themselves have variations.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I just read through your replies in the other thread. That makes sense.

Mostly I am curious to know how many component differences can be spotted just by looking. Even the PCBs themselves have variations.

Sure.

 

[Toku]

It is also sold on Amazon in Japan.
This product is shipped by Amazon from Shenzhen Audio in China in the Amazon's Choice lineup.
But the display of the seller's Shenzhen audio may be a lie.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/s?k=Topping+D10&__mk_ja_JP=カタカナ&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

 

[StevenEleven]

A member purchased what he thought was a Topping D10 DAC from Amazon as the seller. The unit that he received however had the brand "Aimpire" and model number AD10. He asked me if I could look to see if it performs the same or is a fake.

Looking on Amazon, one clearly sees the issue:

View attachment 48529

Yet the picture of what the device looks like the one that the member received:

View attachment 48530​

This curious note on Amazon page makes the buy think this is a newer version:
View attachment 48531

Stacking the real Topping D10 on top of Aimpire AD10 shows the striking similarity:

View attachment 48533​

In use however, the display of sample rate on AD10 fake is dim and not matching the PCM/DSD. The reverse is true on real Topping D10 where the sample rate is bright and clear and the PCM/DSD is merely in sharper front.

Plugging either DAC in gets identified as "D10" so clearly the identity of the USB transceiver is copied in the AD10.

Unlike Topping products, there is no manual, or Audio Precision measurements.

Speculation is that maybe they have cloned the entire thing so performance would be the same. Let's find out.

USB DAC Audio Measurements
Let's start with Aimpire AD10:
View attachment 48535

That's not good. Our noise floor is so high that it is hiding all distortion spikes.

Let's put the Topping D10 in there instead with identical cabling and setup:

View attachment 48536

We get a bunch of noise back resulting in large improvement in SINAD of 14 dB.

So if they have cloned Topping 10, they have screwed something up. If not, then it must using a different DAC chip which can't even resolve 16 bit audio properly without adding noise to it.

The member is on a short fuse to return this to amazon so I did not run additional tests. It is clear you are paying the same amount but not getting the same performance as the real Topping D10.

Conclusions
Fair bit of work has gone into making this clone including the case and such. Maybe Topping made it for others with reduced performance. Maybe it is cloned. We can't tell. What we can tell is that it doesn't perform the same yet you are charged the same amount of money. So I say avoid it.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

As you see, on top of reviewing audio equipment, I have taken on detective work! That surly deserves a raise in the money I can extract from you all. So please donate generously using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

GREAT job by you and the ASR community.

This identifies not only a particular issue relevant to audio enthusiasts, but also calls Amazon on the carpet for a much broader and more important issue, accepting apparent counterfeiting on its sales platform as an acceptable cost of doing business, passed on to its customers.

 

[Tks]

Stop posting these pictures.
They just copied the component layout. They didn't bother to measure the resistor and capacitor values, as well as other less quality parts hence worse performance.

The PCB dimensions of the layout don't look similar either. Also missing some components. Though I'm not sure why you would ask the fellow to stop posting "these pictures". People are curious?

At first I thought this actually was Topping liquidating unpopulated boards of some revision. But it doesn't seem to be the case if I had to guess based on the amount of differences. Though I'd wonder if there are any new silent reivisions of the D10 that would conform to what we see here more.

I don't know though... a company "making a clone" could have simply bought overstock perhaps from the producer that supplied the Topping variant with branding. But then again, I don't even know if Topping is that actual producer of this board, or if someone else works to produce it for them on-order.

 

[JohnYang1997]

The PCB dimensions of the layout don't look similar either. Also missing some components. Though I'm not sure why you would ask the fellow to stop posting "these pictures". People are curious?

At first I thought this actually was Topping liquidating unpopulated boards of some revision. But it doesn't seem to be the case if I had to guess based on the amount of differences. Though I'd wonder if there are any new silent reivisions of the D10 that would conform to what we see here more.

I don't know though... a company "making a clone" could have simply bought overstock perhaps from the producer that supplied the Topping variant with branding. But then again, I don't even know if Topping is that actual producer of this board, or if someone else works to produce it for them on-order.

I know. So please don't post anything that could possibly lead people think the other way. It's dead simple. It's fake and not related to topping at all.
No maybe No perhaps No possibly No what if.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

It really is a pity, because the humble D10 was/is a very capable little cheap DAC. One I would recommend, except for this problem of getting fakes.

 

[SoBu]

Just looked at one of the pictures the owner sent me:
View attachment 48585

Notice where I put the red mark. They are actually pretending it is Topping D10.

That's the sticker Amazon put on the product I assume? In which case Amazon is making the situation worse.
I've learned recently from experience that Amazon does not check the product and the listing before putting those stickers on. I ordered a product that according to the title and pictures was the same on two different listings from separate sellers. The product I received in both cases was an older version and therefore not what was advertised. The Amazon sticker showed it was the new item as the listing showed, but the part number and product was the old model. I did some further investigating and found many other listings that were likely also selling the old version advertised as the newer one. I reported it to Amazon and got a refund. I'm not sure if they did anything about this yet as it was very recent.

 

[restorer-john]

Or are these clones of actual hardware?

Well, unless it's dismantled and the boards are side by side for comparison we don't know. I would have expected more investigation, but it seems it had to go back to Amazon pronto. In this country (Australia), there is absolutely no statutory period for returns if the product is misrepresented, isn't the same as the sample shown, suffers a major fault or is not fit for purpose. You could keep it for a reasonable period and still send it back as a fake product for a full refund.

ACL (Australian Consumer Law)

And this:

I could easily buy one from Amazon, take as long as I need to inspect the product and determine what exactly, if anything, is different to a genuine D-10 and return the product with a full refund. As Amazon trades in this country, they must (and do) adhere to our ACLs as they supersede any dodgy practices or terms and conditions they may try to foist on unsuspecting consumers.

 

[Aldoszx]

Domain Name: AIMPIRE.NET
Registry Domain ID: 2462055913_DOMAIN_NET-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: grs-whois.hichina.com
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Domain Status: ok https://icann.org/epp#ok
Name Server: DNS11.HICHINA.COM
Name Server: DNS12.HICHINA.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned

The website is not functional.

 

[restorer-john]

I know. So please don't post anything that could possibly lead people think the other way. It's dead simple. It's fake and not related to topping at all.
No maybe No perhaps No possibly No what if.

It's more than a fake and you've already alluded to that in other threads. Clearly the PCB file has been leaked and tweaked by a third party. There's a whole lot of rats in the supply chain and Topping got themselves bitten. They will learn from this.

Anyway, at the end of the day, this entire fiasco has got more air time than it deserves for a little cheap D/A converter in my opinion.

 

[VintageFlanker]

no imd?

In fact, we don't care.

This is a fake unit that performs worse than the original. No need to measure it any further. No one should buy it. Period.

These kind of clones from China are pretty common. However, I'm way more concerned by the fact it is sold by Amazon under the wrong designation. This has to be reported and should be unlisted ASAP.

 

[flipflop]

@amirm, could you please measure the polarity of your D10?
@Archimago's unit has inverse polarity, which calls into question whether it can be considered "transparent" or not, but apparently not all D10s have this issue.

 

[pavuol]

I think it's a sign of highly developed economy, Chinese faking their own domestic brands/products....

 

[anmpr1]

I've ordered books from Amazon, and what arrived had a different cover than what was shown on their site. With a paperback book one probably doesn't mind (as long as all the words are there). This, of course, is fraud. If you could trace it back, to point of manufacture, it'd be interesting to see whether it came from the same factory as Topping? You have to sort of wonder how much fraudulent profit can there be selling and shipping a seventy seven dollar DAC? I guess they make it up on volume. LOL