Aimpire AD10: Fake Topping D10 DAC?

[JohnYang1997]

It's more than a fake and you've already alluded to that in other threads. Clearly the PCB file has been leaked and tweaked by a third party. There's a whole lot of rats in the supply chain and Topping got themselves bitten. They will learn from this.

Anyway, at the end of the day, this entire fiasco has got more air time than it deserves for a little cheap D/A converter in my opinion.

No it's not. I know what pcb manufacturers they use. These pcb manufacturers would not leak the files.

 

[Hugo9000]

It could be from a competitor, with the 'profit' being sowing seeds of distrust of Topping haha. A false flag operation. They don't need to sell many to 'profit' from that, just enough to make someone hesitate before buying the competitor's product as it might be a fake.

Perhaps it's an evolution of the problem of unscrupulous companies posting fake reviews of competitors' products on Amazon. Posting negative reviews was less of a problem than posting obviously fake "positive" reviews, as they would get flagged and Amazon would blame the actual manufacturer or vendor, rather than a competitor trying to get someone suspended in order to affect market share that way. And even if their efforts didn't result in Amazon taking action, consumers often seem to assume a fake positive review was made at the behest of the brand in the review. False flag operations work in the marketplace as well as in politics/statecraft.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

There are a few odd things going on here. There is no way that the fake PCB is a separately crafted copy of the original based upon copying a physical product. It is far too close. Only in one area does it differ, and that is not a simple error in copying, it is a clear change in circuit. Everything else about the PCB is down to microscopic accuracy in the copy. The pairing of both these attributes makes the provenance of the fake board interesting. If the PCB was simply a clone, perhaps built by physically scanning and dismembering a real board, there would be no reason for the circuit change. Similarly, if the raw Gerber file for the PCB were stolen, it too would not contain the circuit change. This PCB is variant of the real thing. I suspect it might be a prototype design. Somewhere a copy went astray. Perhaps during the development cycle.

Once you have the design files, you can get any PCB plant to punch them out, and most will offer to populate the boards for you a well. As has been noted, it is here that things can vary, as there is nothing to say parts of the same specification are used. Poorer quality, incorrect spec, or just plain fake parts are very likely. The chance that there is a real Burr Brown op-amp in the fake DAC is remote. That alone could account for much of the performance deficit.

The other question is the firmware. That the USB interface identifies itself as "Topping" is also odd. Why do this? It is trivial to change the id. Did they steal the firmware and not have the wit to change the name? Is the name deliberately set to aid in the fakery (even though the label on the box is not Topping.)

 

[thefsb]

I don't know. I have asked them the question.

I remember reading that Topping had already disavowed any relationship with this item in this thread https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...een-these-aimpire-topping-copies-fakes.10805/

 

[HammerSandwich]

I could easily buy one from Amazon, take as long as I need to inspect the product and determine what exactly, if anything, is different to a genuine D-10 and return the product with a full refund.

I'm not so sure. After clicking the "new version" link, Amazon loads a different page which shows the fake's details. You get one of these not because they ship a fake D10, but because they con you into putting an Aimpire AD10 into your shopping cart.

 

[Feargal]

I'm not sure why, especially if the intention was to damage Topping, they didn't just go the whole hog and write "Topping" on the front. It's possible no-one would have even noticed, except for perhaps the packaging differences. If a suspicious owner got their unit measured and compared with Amir's original D10 results, the finger would be pointed at Topping for supplying inferior product.

 

[rajapruk]

Please ask these guys to also copycat the Massdrop x Airist R2R dac. I want a shady copy of that dac!

 

[ta240]

I think the intention was to make money and it seems to be working. Damaging Topping might just be a side bonus for them.

Since the name is different and some of the components are different is the manufacture doing anything actually blatantly illegal here? Or is this a case of Amazon being the one that is completely screwing over their customers by making them think this is a newer, and possibly better, version of a well designed product?

It was probably a conscious action to price it a penny or so below the topping so it would show up higher in the results. I'm not sure if using the slightly different model number was a planned way to make it look like a newer version or if that was just luck on their part based off trying to make it look as close as possible.

They are back ordered right now but I'd say, if you are in the US, just pay a few dollars more and get one from Parts-Express. You'll get the genuine product and a US company that will stand behind the warranty on it.

 

[Omar Cumming]

Its listed as Out of Stock at Parts-Express. not due until March 20.

 

[Timbo2]

The other question is the firmware. That the USB interface identifies itself as "Topping" is also odd. Why do this? It is trivial to change the id. Did they steal the firmware and not have the wit to change the name? Is the name deliberately set to aid in the fakery (even though the label on the box is not Topping.)

By spoofing the ID you can use Topping's properly licensed Thesycon USB drivers from their web site. These drivers check the ID from their respective manufacturers. So you can't use Sabaj's licensed Thyesyscon drivers with Topping products for example - even though the actual driver is the same.

 

[mhardy6647]

These kind of clones from China are pretty common. However, I'm way more concerned by the fact it is sold by Amazon under the wrong designation. This has to be reported and should be unlisted ASAP.

Ditto (FWIW).

 

[infinitesymphony]

Anyway, at the end of the day, this entire fiasco has got more air time than it deserves for a little cheap D/A converter in my opinion.

Theoretically this little guy could be Aimpire's trial balloon. Use their past Topping distributor status with Amazon to substitute their own "new version" of a product to steal sales using design, drivers, etc. from a previous business partner. How long until we see the AD30, AD50, AD70?

 

[JEntwistle]

Fake/counterfeit products are a fairly common problem on the Amazon website. There are plenty of articles out there discussing how Amazon has struggled to rein this in, with limited success. (leaving to you to decide how hard they try...)

It is not surprising to me at all that this product could be out in the wild, with an exterior that is the same as the official Topping. It is common for factories in China that specialize in one item to produce for a number of different brands. It would be very easy for someone to acquire the same external case and have it rebranded - whether done with the blessing of the factory or done surreptitiously by someone connected there. i.e.: it could be as easy as buying the blank cases and taking them to another factory for painting. In fact, it may be that the factory that makes the case does not apply the final decals or paint for Topping, anyway.

-- I just did a search for "dac case" on alibaba. Look how many results there are. Appears not too hard to copy the Topping case.
https://www.aliexpress.com/premium/...ac+case&ltype=premium&SortType=default&page=7

I noticed the website on the label Amirm showed (www.aimpire.net) is not a functioning website.

The bottom line is that this is a fake, as Amirm has proven and as others here have confirmed. Unfortunately, this is not a rare occurrence in the electronics world. I think the best advice is to only buy from reputable sources and to reject anything that is obviously improperly branded. i.e.: if someone received this from Amazon, they should immediately return it without giving a second thought and not take any chances.

EDIT: And of course thanks to Amir and the person who sent him this DAC for alerting everyone to this!

 

[Veri]

Fake/counterfeit products are a fairly common problem on the Amazon website. There are plenty of articles out there discussing how Amazon has struggled to rein this in, with limited success. (leaving to you to decide how hard they try...)

It is not surprising to me at all that this product could be out in the wild, with an exterior that is the same as the official Topping. It is common for factories in China that specialize in one item to produce for a number of different brands. It would be very easy for someone to acquire the same external case and have it rebranded - whether done with the blessing of the factory or done surreptitiously by someone connected there. i.e.: it could be as easy as buying the blank cases and taking them to another factory for painting. In fact, it may be that the factory that makes the case does not apply the final decals or paint for Topping, anyway.

-- I just did a search for "dac case" on alibaba. Look how many results there are. Appears not too hard to copy the Topping case.
https://www.aliexpress.com/premium/...ac+case&ltype=premium&SortType=default&page=7

I noticed the website on the label Amirm showed (www.aimpire.net) is not a functioning website.

The bottom line is that this is a fake, as Amirm has proven and as others here have confirmed. Unfortunately, this is not a rare occurrence in the electronics world. I think the best advice is to only buy from reputable sources and to reject anything that is obviously improperly branded. i.e.: if someone received this from Amazon, they should immediately return it without giving a second thought and not take any chances.

It looks like on amazon.com at least, the main listing has been suspended due to too many returns, see marketplace offerings:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B07B46KQVP

I hope they do the proper research to fix the situation.

 

[adolchristin]

Something pretty fishy going on; AIMPIRE is now listed as the provider of all Topping products on Amazon? (Some other Shenzhen Audio brands as well)

https://www.amazon.com/stores/node/...owse-bin=AIMPIRE&ref_=bl_dp_s_web_19831280011

 

[restorer-john]

There is no way that the fake PCB is a separately crafted copy of the original based upon copying a physical product. It is far too close.

Agreed. There's a deliberate modification (removal of a single PSU reg rail) in the centre of the board that suggests either a pre or post production variation- most likely pre. The raised noise floor across the spectrum could easily be some fake/re-marked analogue opamps. Interesting to note the actual THD spikes are lower in absolute terms than the "genuine" one.

So, the firmware was either leaked, stolen or pulled from a product and could be several generations old or exactly the same- who knows. All the rest, is off the shelf bog standard parts, so it's not 'fake', just not supposedly a "Topping".

And the only person here who is denying it all and telling the membership to not post pictures or even discuss it, is a guy with an "internship" (vested interest) at Topping itself, which is funny in itself.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

so I thought I'd report this fake to Amazon, but I cannot for the life of me find anywhere to do this.
Does anyone know how it can be done?

 

[Doodski]

so I thought I'd report this fake to Amazon, but I cannot for the life of me find anywhere to do this.
Does anyone know how it can be done?

Chat or telephone customer service and they can inter-transfer you internationally if req'd. Been there done that >@^_*@<

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Chat or telephone customer service and they can inter-transfer you internationally if req'd. Been there done that >@^_*@<

Thanks, they don't exactly make it easy do they!

 

[Doodski]

Thanks, they don't exactly make it easy do they!

Yeah ya gotta search and sift through the stuff at the bottom of the pages to get to them... they make a person get technical to find it...