Adam T5V Review (Studio Monitor)

[infinitesymphony]

Wish we had a level-calibrated Fundamental+Harmonic Distortion graph for the JBL LSR305P MkII to compare against. We've seen small-woofer active speakers with far worse distortion. Here's the 4" Edifier R1280T:

 

[ROOSKIE]

Multiple yes - single no. And most people just buy one and it causes problems. In some cases you're better off positioning your mains for a single listening position IMO, even if it means arranging the rest of the room around it.

I'm not discounting the value of EQ in a room as I've played the REW game in the past to get a room to sound right. I'm just calling out the statement you can't have good sound unless you use EQ. Hogwash.

With all due respect who cares about good sound. If you want accuracy and ability, PEQ/ect is about getting the most out of what you have. It is one of the most powerful tools in the whole system.
Why do people insist on arguing this? There is no "REW game".
You can't get the best sound out of any system anymore without eq/DSP/room correction.
No matter how much you work the room I guarantee you than some amount of digital manipulation will further improve your sound.
I have many speakers here. There are zero that do not benefit at least a little from tweaking.
Additionally the rooms influence is just to much and no amount of positioning or adding of subwoofers can overcome it.
If you have created a system/room that doesn't benefit from DSP please post those measurements here. I know it would be impressive to see them.
Seriously it would.

 

[ernestcarl]

I have the original LSR305 and distortion is simply far worse esp. in the mids. Apart from the spike in the treble, the Adam T5V are just better — and so I think the $200 cheap price tag is justified. All this inane talk about the distortion being god-awful for this type of monitor is just not worth talking about.

 

[laudio]

With all due respect who cares about good sound. If you want accuracy and ability, PEQ/ect is about getting the most out of what you have. It is one of the most powerful tools in the whole system.
Why do people insist on arguing this? There is no "REW game".
You can't get the best sound out of any system anymore without eq/DSP/room correction.
No matter how much you work the room I guarantee you than some amount of digital manipulation will further improve your sound.
I have many speakers here. There are zero that do not benefit at least a little from tweaking.
Additionally the rooms influence is just to much and no amount of positioning or adding of subwoofers can overcome it.
If you have created a system/room that doesn't benefit from DSP please post those measurements here. I know it would be impressive to see them.
Seriously it would.

Did I say you can't benefit from it? No. Just dispute that you can't have good sound without it. Anything can be improved on. To make a statement that a PEQ is a requirement is silly. And by game, it is kind of a game, as a lot people care more about the curve they plot instead of the sound they hear. I've seen it here - take a look at my plots (woo hoo).

Ordered a UMIK so I can play around again... I used to have a Realistic calibrated mic. I'll be attempting to calibrate an ancient B&K AVR307 with a lot of PEQ capability filters built in for fun, since nothing is automatic.

 

[YSC]

I was one of the members who asked for THD measurements despite Amir’s own reservations about supplying them. There are no THD absolutes or standards for speakers, so relative comparisons are relevant.

Yes, the distortion seems very high, but there is a question of audibility here too. Am curious what you think is acceptable and what your new design will achieve for bass frequencies at 96 dB?

For a layman perspective at 96db the distortion is complete BS to me as MY EARS WILL BE DISTORTED AND DAMAGED if I bother to try "enjoy" bass at that level, being in the construction industry I am perfectly aware a 96db pile driving work is making me nuts even with a mild earplug, so it's irrelevant at some point

 

[Zensō]

For a layman perspective at 96db the distortion is complete BS to me as MY EARS WILL BE DISTORTED AND DAMAGED if I bother to try "enjoy" bass at that level, being in the construction industry I am perfectly aware a 96db pile driving work is making me nuts even with a mild earplug, so it's irrelevant at some point

Agreed. When I mix on Adam A5X’ at nearfield I rarely exceed 75 db.

 

[Rick Sykora]

For a layman perspective at 96db the distortion is complete BS to me as MY EARS WILL BE DISTORTED AND DAMAGED if I bother to try "enjoy" bass at that level, being in the construction industry I am perfectly aware a 96db pile driving work is making me nuts even with a mild earplug, so it's irrelevant at some point

Agree about the hearing stress, but 96 dB is a commonly used in loudspeaker testing as a stress test level.

 

[Zensō]

Agree about the hearing stress, but 96 dB is a commonly used in loudspeaker testing as a stress test level.

True, but perhaps studio monitors designed for listening at very close range (typically ~3’) should be tested at lower volume.

 

[Benedium]

Agree about the hearing stress, but 96 dB is a commonly used in loudspeaker testing as a stress test level.

So is this data irrelevant for consumers?

 

[dfuller]

For a layman perspective at 96db the distortion is complete BS to me as MY EARS WILL BE DISTORTED AND DAMAGED if I bother to try "enjoy" bass at that level, being in the construction industry I am perfectly aware a 96db pile driving work is making me nuts even with a mild earplug, so it's irrelevant at some point

It's not unrealistic to expect 96dB peaks with an 86dB average level especially with more dynamic program material (see: movies, higher dynamic range music).

Anyway for nearfield monitors I wouldn't want to be listening that loud considering they're generally ~1m or less away from me.

 

[YSC]

So is this data irrelevant for consumers?

see here:
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hearing_loss.html
at 95db you will suffer from hearing loss within 50 minutes, I remember read somewhere that if the noise is going too loud your ear will do something internally to change your perceived FR and try save your hearing. at such level I truely believe it is irrelevant at any practical use.

Agree about the hearing stress, but 96 dB is a commonly used in loudspeaker testing as a stress test level.

Yes I agree also about this, and also feels that at such level it's more of pushing the speaker off it's limit and make comparison easier, say in our case here where some "well controlled speaker" will have "only" 1x% of distortion while others just bottom out and have THD>100%, and that serves the torture test very well, easier to see which is better rather than playing at very low level where every product have low distortion so low that comparison is meaningless

 

[andreasmaaan]

96dB won’t cause hearing stress at bass frequencies.

A jackhammer will make you grit your teeth at that level because there’s a lot of energy in the range of our ear canal resonance.

Bass is very different, though. At 40Hz, for example, a 96dB sound will be perceived to be roughly the same SPL as an 80dB sound will in the midrange (80 phon). At 20Hz, 96dB will get you a perceived (approximately) 40db (phon).

Moreover, virtually all music contains a concentration of energy in the bass:

So we are very used to hearing sound spectra that are skewed towards the bass, ie sounds that are bass heavy (in absolute terms) sound “natural” to us.

Indeed if you want to listen to reasonably dynamic music at a moderate level, you’ll want your system to be able to handle 96dB peaks in the bass.

NB: none of this is intended to relate to the discussion of this particular speaker. Just some general info since the topic came up

 

[Sancus]

There's plenty of music where the dynamic range is +/- 20 or even 30dB(some classical, rarely). So even if you listen at 75dB average, distortion at 96 does have some relevance. Even more relevance if you consider that you want to know the behaviour of your speaker at the limits so you know how much overhead you have.

 

[Benedium]

see here:
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hearing_loss.html
at 95db you will suffer from hearing loss within 50 minutes, I remember read somewhere that if the noise is going too loud your ear will do something internally to change your perceived FR and try save your hearing. at such level I truely believe it is irrelevant at any practical use.

If this type of data is irrelevant to consumers, would it be better if more relevant or only relevant data were presented to consumers? Always thought I was some kind of idiot but maybe that's the real reason I'm still so clueless haha.

 

[amirm]

Hi Amir. Is there any know information, if the Klippel system limits the measurement bandwidth to about 22 kHz or if all the last tested (inexpensive) active Monitors do have internal ADC with 48k Sample Rate running. Would be great to know. Thanks.

An update on this. I measured some other passive speakers with higher bandwidth and the system is indeed measuring them correctly. So what you see in the latest review tests is correct as far as bandwidth/ADC sampling rate.

 

[YSC]

It's not unrealistic to expect 96dB peaks with an 86dB average level especially with more dynamic program material (see: movies, higher dynamic range music).

Anyway for nearfield monitors I wouldn't want to be listening that loud considering they're generally ~1m or less away from me.

Ah my bad here, I always thought that would be dangerous level.

Anyway it seems just like what the review said it to be. a nice nearfield speaker with well controlled bass, in a sense that the Genelec 8030C isn't doing better in bass distortion department. and from my wild guess most ppl buying these speakers won't put it too far from the back wall as in a huge living room or conference room, the natural bass boost by the wall reflection would cause less strain on bass driver when used the switch at the back or EQ, and all the bad ass reflection room modes would make the bass distortion less relevant, of coz when you need them in that environment one would easily think of buying a sub for that purpose. this review is as is presenting the distortion level for both levels and makes one decide what to buy in the end of the day no?

 

[Maiky76]

Here is my take on the EQ.
The raw data with corrected ER and PIR:
Score no EQ: 4.2, not great
With Sub: 6.45
Spinorama with no EQ:

• The response is not that smooth
• The HF is obviously too hot
• smooth DI will help for EQ
• It would be nice to see the impact of the built-in EQs and check wether that can be helpful.

Directivity:
Nice directivity
Better stay at tweeter height
Horizontally, better toe-in the speakers by 10/20deg and have the axis crossing in front of the listening location, might help smoothing things out.
It will definitely help with the HF.

EQ design:
I have generated two EQs. The APO config files are attached.

• The first one, labelled, LW is targeted at making the LW flat
• The second, labelled Score, starts with the first one and adds the score as an optimization variable.
• The EQs are designed in the context of regular stereo use i.e. domestic environment, no warranty is provided for a near field use in a studio environment although the LW might be better suited for this purpose.
• Quite a few sharp PK, would need careful ABX evaluation to verify if they are actually beneficial.

Score EQ LW: 5.57, already a nice improvement
with sub: 7.86
Score EQ Score: 6.29
with sub: 8.49

Adam T5V APO EQ LW 96000Hz
December072020-135609

Preamp: -1 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 309.5 Hz Gain 1 dB Q 1.5
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 815 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 3.97
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1349 Hz Gain -1.85 dB Q 5.29
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 7805 Hz Gain -0.7 dB Q 3
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5738 Hz Gain -2.26 dB Q 3.87
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 10291 Hz Gain -2.06 dB Q 1.15

Adam T5V APO EQ Score 96000Hz
December072020-135241

Preamp: -1.2 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 322.5 Hz Gain 1 dB Q 1.05
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 826 Hz Gain -2.42 dB Q 5.8
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1353 Hz Gain -1.12 dB Q 7.25
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1680 Hz Gain -0.95 dB Q 5.25
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 3285 Hz Gain 1.7 dB Q 9.23
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 4589 Hz Gain 1.7 dB Q 9.14
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 12913 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 3.75
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 5470 Hz Gain -3.51 dB Q 2.91
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 8857 Hz Gain -2.06 dB Q 1.56

Spinorama EQ LW

Spinorama EQ Score

Zoom PIR-LW-ON

Regression - Tonal, still very slightly ascending once EQed

Radar no EQ vs EQ score
Large improvements

The rest of the plots is attached.

 

[Rick Sykora]

If this type of data is irrelevant to consumers, would it be better if more relevant or only relevant data were presented to consumers? Always thought I was some kind of idiot but maybe that's the real reason I'm still so clueless haha.

He may have missed this time, but Amir usually states when the measurements are more technical. The distortion aspect got more visibility with the added thread discussion. Some of those discussions are technical and/or esoteric. They can leave the less technical feeling the product is deficient and really is just technical banter. We have discussed separating the review posting and the forum discussion. Seems may be time to revisit that discussion.

 

[Benedium]

He may have missed this time, but Amir usually states when the measurements are more technical. The distortion aspect got more visibility with the added thread discussion. Some of those discussions are technical and/or esoteric. They can leave the less technical feeling the product is deficient and really is just technical banter. We have discussed separating the review posting and the forum discussion. Seems may be time to revisit that discussion.

I know I was just kidding.
In truth I would trust amirm and many others here much more than I would trust myself. Following reviews and comments here in my limited capacity, I have already bought denon x3600h, elac dbr62, edifier r1280, nest audio and smsl sa300.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

This is pretty impressive performance for this segment. The “unshelved“ HF response is a mystery to me, but easily EQed away a noted.

Speaking of this and the cat fight over it which has ensued, I have an idea: given that every speaker requires some kind of correction to compensate for room variations anyway, wouldn’t the silver built product be an active speaker with built-in DSP accessible via Bluetooth and controllable on a phone or a pad with a dedicated app? I’m using outboard DSPs with those features ahead of my 16 JBL LSR 305s and 305Ps and 5 subs in my surround system. If you need to muck about with EQ, phase, distance and levels anyway, it would be cool if everything were in the speaker, some of today’s powered speakers being cost-effective elements in a modern surround system. I realize this would be viewed as irrelevant at best, or worse, complete anathema to the mantra of a minimalist signal path to the 2-channel crowd, but I don’t care about that. “Totally different market.”