A Thread Dedicated to Cirrus Logic CS43131

[alexypp]

I can't find the answer, so I'm asking for your help.
Most of the DAC adapters used for phones including Samsung have good sound, but the microphone during calls plays quietly and is muffled.

The situation does not occur when using phones with a headphone jack. Most people talking about sound Quality when playing the music.

Is the problem due to the audio DAC itself or the phone audio profile settings?

 

[Blorg]

I suspect this may be down to the microphone itself rather than the dongle. Mic on IEMs tend to be on the wire and not the best quality. Or possibly, settings. I use a VE Abigail ($5-10 dongle) for measurements and the mic input on that seems fine.

"Most" DAC adapters won't support mic at all, but the ones that do, it's fine for me.

 

[alexypp]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I used Headphones EPOS SC75 with dedicated microphone which works very loud and clear with all Phones with Jack 3.5mm.
I want to buy CS43131 CSD-AUDIO USB DAC adapter which is provided on previous page.

This DAC have microphone PIN?

Tested original adapter from My EPOS Headphones and sound of the microphone is correct only through the voice recorder.

@Blorg Your DAC giving you Loud and clear sound from microphone when you have a call?

 

[Blorg]

@Blorg Your DAC giving you Loud and clear sound from microphone when you have a call?

I don't use it for that. But it records fine from a measurement microphone so there is nothing wrong with the ADC. Muffled and quiet is going to be the mic, position or it, maybe the settings, not the ADC... unless something is really broken.

If the sound is correct through the voice recorder, the ADC in the dongle is working.

I wonder if what is happening is that for calls, it's actually taking it from a different microphone, so the mic on the phone body for example. That would explain muffled and quiet. I have run into this with phones and laptop, even more, sometimes when the mic is working but really bad, it's because it's using the wrong mic and the one it is using is still there in the room so does pick up something but isn't ideally positioned or the one I think I'm using, so is "muffled and quiet".

 

[ZolaIII]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I used Headphones EPOS SC75 with dedicated microphone which works very loud and clear with all Phones with Jack 3.5mm.
I want to buy CS43131 CSD-AUDIO USB DAC adapter which is provided on previous page.

This DAC have microphone PIN?

Tested original adapter from My EPOS Headphones and sound of the microphone is correct only through the voice recorder.

@Blorg Your DAC giving you Loud and clear sound from microphone when you have a call?

Nothing deacent there not the mic nor headphones as they are on ear design with limitations which such design brings. You need separate ADC for a microphone input and many which even include it skimp on quality implementation (for cost, lack of engineering or even on purpose). As much as I recall EVGA had a best unbalanced implementatio for home use on their PCI-E cards (but you won't be able to find them). Creative purposely do it bad so it's OK for a voice chat but far from good or something you would use for recording. IVX spent a lot of time and effort developing Cosmos ADC which comes close to top end audio annalisers for lot less money and today is used as annaliser from many ASR members and others. For your possible applications you should look elsewhere before all to something like Creative SoundBlaster X G3 or G6 (G6 for more of relatively portable ADC/DSP/DAC & headphone amp for use with PC or laptop not with phone and DAC is CS43131).

 

[CedarX]

I want to buy CS43131 CSD-AUDIO USB DAC adapter which is provided on previous page.

This DAC have microphone PIN?

CS43131 is a DAC-Amp, no ADC. The adapter you referenced may have a separate ADC chip for mic support but I highly doubt it.

 

[alexypp]

I want to use this DAC in Phone. Phones with DAC Have separate ADC AMP?

 

[ZolaIII]

I want to use this DAC in Phone. Phones with DAC Have separate ADC AMP?

Yes even one's without wired I/O but then you can't use them. Removing the 3.5 mm jack whose one of the worst thing industry ever adopted. Real problem isn't a USB interface but cable and ports getting lose and in operational in time and then again you only have one such port on the phone. They saved very little space and 50¢ how much female jack port costs and created a major problem to majorly of users. Trouts is they did it on purpose to boost the TWS sail with bad lossy low complexity BT codecs.

 

[alexypp]

Yes even one's without wired I/O but then you can't use them. Removing the 3.5 mm jack whose one of the worst thing industry ever adopted. Real problem isn't a USB interface but cable and ports getting lose and in operational in time and then again you only have one such port on the phone. They saved very little space and 50¢ how much female jack port costs and created a major problem to majorly of users. Trouts is they did it on purpose to boost the TWS sail with bad lossy low complexity BT codecs.

Well then I am shocked If you say that the phones also had microphone amplifiers. That would explain everything that there is nothing to expect in that case miracles and comparable sound from the microphone.

 

[mc.god]

Just ordered a Jcally JM20 as a backup for my loved Ugreen HiFi Pro, I'm curious about the above information, is it taken from JM20 or other "no-name" CS431131 dongle? Or can anyone using the JM20 on Linux post the result of the command?
I ask because the Ugreen doesn't expose that "Altset 4 - Special format" for DSD, so I suppose it using a different usb-bridge, indeed it seems to support only DoP mode

View attachment 337088

Not really concerned about playing dsd, just out of curiosity about the various implementation around this great CS chip.

I reply to myself just in case it can be useful for somebody.
Got the Jcally JM20 and it surely uses a different usb bridge than Ugreen HiFi:

Ugreen:

UGREEN UGREEN HiFi Audio Amplifier at usb-0000:00:1d.7-3, high speed : USB Audio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Playback:
Status: Stop
Interface 1
Altset 1
Format: S24_3LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 2 OUT (SYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 24
Interface 1
Altset 2
Format: S16_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 2 OUT (SYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 16
Interface 1
Altset 3
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 2 OUT (SYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us

Jcally JM20

Shenzhen CBHT Technology Co., Ltd CS43131 HIFI Audio at usb-0000:00:1d.0-1.1, h : USB Audio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Playback:
Status: Stop
Interface 2
Altset 1
Format: S16_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x03 (3 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 16
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x84 (4 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 2
Sync EP Altset: 1
Implicit Feedback Mode: No
Interface 2
Altset 2
Format: S24_3LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x03 (3 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 24
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x84 (4 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 2
Sync EP Altset: 2
Implicit Feedback Mode: No
Interface 2
Altset 3
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x03 (3 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 32
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x84 (4 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 2
Sync EP Altset: 3
Implicit Feedback Mode: No
Interface 2
Altset 4
Format: SPECIAL
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 0x03 (3 OUT) (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 32
DSD raw: DOP=0, bitrev=0
Channel map: FL FR
Sync Endpoint: 0x84 (4 IN)
Sync EP Interface: 2
Sync EP Altset: 4
Implicit Feedback Mode: No

So the Jcally goes ASYNC (better) and has Native DSD support instead of only DOP, so it can truly play DSD 256 as declared (for what it matters):

Anyway even with it SYNC interface I never had a single problem with the Ugreen like pops and lags, even switching between different formats and sample rates.

Jcally doesn't need to sense something connected to it to turns on, it is always active and visible even with nothing connected to it.
If you plug it with nothing attached it goes in high gain mode, if you plug with low ohm load connected it goes in low gain, so if you want to use it in high gain even with low ohm headphones you don't need to use the trick of the 3.5 mm extension cable, simply plug it and connect headphones after.
On the other hands unlike Ugreen, if you want to switch gain modes you have to always unplug and reconnect usb instead of just the headphones.
Different approaches that you can like or not depending on situations.

Ugreen supports phones with mic, when you connect it with a trrs mic headphone, Linux shows it between the input devices, same thing on the smartphone, it records from the headphones mic.
Jcally doesn't support input, Linux doesn't show any input device and smartphone records sounds from it's internal mic.

Everything else seems on par between the two dongles, Ugreen is marginally more powerfull at low loads but I can't judge it, both go deafening high with all my headphones even in low gain.
Build quality seems similar, Jcally cable is shorter but more flexible than the braided one of the Ugreen, Jcally finish feels a bit cheaper.
Sound wise, as expected, they are indistinguishable.

Jcally 22€ from China, can't ask for more for a nice backup unit.

[EDIT] Read below.

 

[mc.god]

Unfortunately I have to deeply change my opinion bout the Jcally JM20.
Yesterday I mainly focused on checking technical aspects putting minimal attention to hearing aspect... blame on me.
This device seem seriously flawed in it's implementation:

• There is always a short scratching noise when start playing something, if you keep it playing then it's ok but as soon as you stop and it goes in muting, when you start playing again it's there again. Seems it doesn't like very much being awakened from muting state. You notice it a lot if you have system sound enabled on your OS;
• there is constant hiss noise in the background, at first you don't notice it since it goes immediately in muting state when reproduction stops and with standard music contents at normal volume you don't hear it much, but playing some sine test file at very low volume you can hear it very well;
• There are glitches every time you adjust the volume up and down, like a faint pop at every step. It only happens when controlling hardware volume since it is the same in Linux\Windows (UAC2) and Android in exclusive access, while in Android without exclusive access there are no glitches changing volume.

Honestly i didn't expect all of this seeing the very good measurements shared above, this is not a bit near the perfect dark background of the Ugreen dongle, and even for so low as 22€ it ended up being not worth the money in my opinion, unless there is some kind of trick to solve all of that, but I doubt.

 

[MCH]

Unfortunately I have to deeply change my opinion bout the Jcally JM20.
Yesterday I mainly focused on checking technical aspects putting minimal attention to hearing aspect... blame on me.
This device seem seriously flawed in it's implementation:

• There is always a short scratching noise when start playing something, if you keep it playing then it's ok but as soon as you stop and it goes in muting, when you start playing again it's there again. Seems it doesn't like very much being awakened from muting state. You notice it a lot if you have system sound enabled on your OS;
• there is constant hiss noise in the background, at first you don't notice it since it goes immediately in muting state when reproduction stops and with standard music contents at normal volume you don't hear it much, but playing some sine test file at very low volume you can hear it very well;
• There are glitches every time you adjust the volume up and down, like a faint pop at every step. It only happens when controlling hardware volume since it is the same in Linux\Windows (UAC2) and Android in exclusive access, while in Android without exclusive access there are no glitches changing volume.

Honestly i didn't expect all of this seeing the very good measurements shared above, this is not a bit near the perfect dark background of the Ugreen dongle, and even for so low as 22€ it ended up being not worth the money in my opinion, unless there is some kind of trick to solve all of that, but I doubt.

is it possible that your unit is broken? I don't recall anyone reporting these issues, and according to the measurements @staticV3 shared somewhere there should not be any audible noise. I ordered one yesterday (17 eur with ali coins, couldn't resist + i am having problems with my Meizu), will report back when i receive it.

btw, while looking for it, i came across the even lower cost JM25, with a ES9318C and claiming 110 dB SINAD (does this chip even exist outside aliexpress?). There isn't much information around, and it is not that i need yet another dongle, but i got curious about it

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005255335100.html

 

[mc.god]

is it possible that your unit is broken? I don't recall anyone reporting these issues, and according to the measurements @staticV3 shared somewhere there should not be any audible noise. I ordered one yesterday (17 eur with ali coins, couldn't resist + i am having problems with my Meizu), will report back when i receive it.

Yes, the measurements by @staticV3 convinced me it were on par with my Ugreen, so I'm surprised of these issues and surely there is the chance my unit is broken.
I could try to return them since there is free return on first order at Aliexpress. Last month I already returned a slightly pricier dongle that had great usability problems due to volume buttons and the process gone flawlessly after I submitted a video showing their behavior, but honestly don't think I'll follow this path this time, for the cost it'll remain a last resort backup in case of necessity.

Anyway let us know how your unit performs, I'm really curious at this point, hope yours will be fine.

 

[mc.god]

Just as an addiction, here the system messages plugging the 2 dongles

Ugreen

4180.775062] usb 2-1.1: new high-speed USB device number 9 using ehci-pci
[ 4180.886005] usb 2-1.1: New USB device found, idVendor=2b89, idProduct=0128, bcdDevice= 1.13
[ 4180.886029] usb 2-1.1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
[ 4180.886036] usb 2-1.1: Product: UGREEN HiFi Audio Amplifier
[ 4180.886042] usb 2-1.1: Manufacturer: UGREEN
[ 4180.904061] input: UGREEN UGREEN HiFi Audio Amplifier as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.0/usb2/2-1/2-1.1/2-1.1:1.2/0003:2B89:0128.0006/input/input33
[ 4180.963386] hid-generic 0003:2B89:0128.0006: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.11 Device [UGREEN UGREEN HiFi Audio Amplifier] on usb-0000:00:1d.0-1.1/input2

JM20

4275.499007] usb 2-1.1: new high-speed USB device number 12 using ehci-pci
[ 4275.608995] usb 2-1.1: New USB device found, idVendor=262a, idProduct=0001, bcdDevice= 0.08
[ 4275.609019] usb 2-1.1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=6
[ 4275.609026] usb 2-1.1: Product: CS43131 HIFI Audio
[ 4275.609032] usb 2-1.1: Manufacturer: Shenzhen CBHT Technology Co., Ltd
[ 4275.609037] usb 2-1.1: SerialNumber: 5000000001
[ 4275.611119] hid-generic 0003:262A:0001.0008: No inputs registered, leaving
[ 4275.615065] hid-generic 0003:262A:0001.0008: hidraw0: USB HID v1.00 Device [Shenzhen CBHT Technology Co., Ltd CS43131 HIFI Audio] on usb-0000:00:1d.0-1.1/input0
[ 4275.618979] usb 2-1.1: 2:4 : unsupported format bits 0x100000000

There is this strange last message, I wonder if it can be of any meaning...

 

[MCH]

Just as an addiction, here the system messages plugging the 2 dongles

Ugreen



JM20


There is this strange last message, I wonder if it can be of any meaning...

Seems to be common, you will find a few discussions if you google it. I have no idea about these things, but maybe this for instance tells you something:

How to debug a USB audio event that happens during boot?

I have a Topping D30Pro USB DAC which works (mostly) fine once logged in, but during boot (systemd), right around "Reached Target Sound Card", it starts outputting, what I'd have to guess...

unix.stackexchange.com

 

[mc.god]

Seems to be common, you will find a few discussions if you google it. I have no idea about these things, but maybe this for instance tells you something:

How to debug a USB audio event that happens during boot?

I have a Topping D30Pro USB DAC which works (mostly) fine once logged in, but during boot (systemd), right around "Reached Target Sound Card", it starts outputting, what I'd have to guess...

unix.stackexchange.com

Thank you for the link, I'll read with patience. So the message is related to the DSD interface, this explain why the Ugreen doesn't rises it, I'll double check with the Tone Board.

Anyway, just to close the circle, now I'm trying again on the Linux laptop (where it possibly will be used 99% of the time), and in the end the issues are not a big deal (for a backup unit):

• the "scratch" on start playing is surely the most evident, but it last just half a second. If you stop playing, after about 5-6 second you hear a faint pop indicating it's entering the muting state. If you restart playing within that 6 seconds the scratch doesn't happens since the unit is still "awake". It can be annoying if you have a lot of short system sounds (empty trashcan, delete files, closing windows, etc...) that is not my case, so OK.
• the background hiss is not really present, it was me mislead by that scratch on first start and by some strange behavior had testing a sine wave on the smartphone. Now I'm playing a silence file generated via ocenaudio and after the start scratch it goes completely silent even with volume at max on sensitive IEMS, so OK.
• the "pops" changing volume are noticeable only playing a constant sine wave, nothing in normal music reproduction. Going quickly up-down with the volume slider sometimes rises a constant background hiss that goes away if you stop or change again the volume, surely UAC2 management is not perfect, but almost OK.

Last downside: I just discovered that the JM20 can't stay plugged to my laptop during boot, boot process is slowed down a lot trying to enumerate the device since it fails and the dongle is not recognized at all. I have to plug it after boot to let it correctly turn on. It's an old laptop without usb-c, so I'm using an usb-a to usb-c adapter, don't know if it can be the cause. Ugreen with the same adapter is perfect, but it could depend from their different ways to turning on.


Awaiting for your impressions.

 

[mc.god]

• the background hiss is not really present, it was me mislead by that scratch on first start and by some strange behavior had testing a sine wave on the smartphone. Now I'm playing a silence file generated via ocenaudio and after the start scratch it goes completely silent even with volume at max on sensitive IEMS, so OK.

Finally found that the hiss problem wasn't just my imaginaton and it is there, but ONLY if i use my TRN MT1 that has mic cable. MT1 have 0.75mm and i have only 2 mic cables for them, both have hiss. I don't know if it's due to mic cable or the iem, MT1 is rated at 106 db sensitivity (not specified if db/v or db/w), on paper they should be less sensitive than i.e. my Hola (120 db/-V) that have no hiss:

• MT1 mic: HISS
• MT1 mic2: HISS
• Hola no mic: NO HISS
• Hola mic: NO HISS (so it shouldn't be a problem of the JM20 with TRRS jack)
• Any other of my iems no mic: NO HISS

Can't try MT1 with Hola mic cable or any other no mic cable of mine since they are all 0.78mm

Last downside: I just discovered that the JM20 can't stay plugged to my laptop during boot, boot process is slowed down a lot trying to enumerate the device since it fails and the dongle is not recognized at all. I have to plug it after boot to let it correctly turn on. It's an old laptop without usb-c, so I'm using an usb-a to usb-c adapter, don't know if it can be the cause. Ugreen with the same adapter is perfect, but it could depend from their different ways to turning on.

Have to clarify that this doesn't happen at first turn on but only if I reboot the laptop, so normally it can stay plugged.

 

[mc.god]

Just out of curiosity, since JM20 uses a Savitech usb bridge:

Bus 002 Device 003: ID 262a:0001 SAVITECH Corp. CS43131 HIFI Audio

i connected it to my Windows pc and tried if Asio drivers from Sonata HD Pro (Savitech 9312) would work, but nothing, it's not recognized.
Tried even the HiFiMe Savitech 9023 drivers, same result.

Since Savitech Asio drivers exist it would have been a nice feature versus the Ugreen\Meizu that use CS46L41 as bridge, but ok, if anybody knows other drivers I can give a shot please link them.

 

[CedarX]

A shot in the dark: JDS Labs El DAC reviewed in 2018.
Asio drivers are available at: https://jdslabs.com/support/drivers/

No idea if they work with the JM20 or are any different from the ones you tried already…

 

[mc.god]

A shot in the dark: JDS Labs El DAC reviewed in 2018.
Asio drivers are available at: https://jdslabs.com/support/drivers/

No idea if they work with the JM20 or are any different from the ones you tried already…

Thank you, it seems similar to the Hifime driver but slightly different

Hifime
BravoXSwPkgSetup.msi

JDS
BravoHDSwPkgSetup.msi

worth give a try, I'll let you know.