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A tale of two speakers (B2031A and 8030c)

mightycicadalord

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I've been pretty bored at home watching all the events I was supposed to work get cancelled but hey, covid is going nuts right now, better safe than sorry.

I was annoyed with the ringing of the ports when touched. Idk if there were any audible issues with how flimsy and ringy they are, but it bugged me so I opened them up. Solution was simple, hair ties. I rolled 5 onto each port and measured the right port on a speaker with hair ties, and one without. I want to plug them, but there is a pretty tonal change and compensating with EQ doens't quite sound right to me, plugged they start sloping down pretty hard at 140hz. The ~700hz resonancee is from the port because it fills in when plugged. They sound better to me with the silly hair ties, could be placebo.
 

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Sengin

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  • Speakers pop on powering on (power button to rear) with clipping light coming on and bass driver making notable excursion (I leave the speakers on for this reason. I may experiment with turning them on via energy saving plug). Pop doesn't happen when switching on from rear panel rather than top power switch
Don't the Behringer 2031A's have auto standby? The website says they do anyway - you shouldn't need to turn them off or need to use an energy saving plug.
 
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Digby

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I was annoyed with the ringing of the ports when touched. Idk if there were any audible issues with how flimsy and ringy they are, but it bugged me so I opened them up. Solution was simple, hair ties. I rolled 5 onto each port and measured the right port on a speaker with hair ties, and one without.
I wonder if blu-tack applied round the outside of the ports would dampen even better? It is cheap, malleable and should dampen well.

Don't the Behringer 2031A's have auto standby? The website says they do anyway - you shouldn't need to turn them off or need to use an energy saving plug.
In theory, yes, but in practise the speakers will shut off at normal, but low level volumes (even when amps are at low gain on speaker, requiring larger input) and then you have to turn the volume up to loud to get them to turn on again. Not much fun.
 

mightycicadalord

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I wonder if blu-tack applied round the outside of the ports would dampen even better? It is cheap, malleable and should dampen well.


In theory, yes, but in practise the speakers will shut off at normal, but low level volumes (even when amps are at low gain on speaker, requiring larger input) and then you have to turn the volume up to loud to get them to turn on again. Not much fun.

I can try some blue tack, some other things as well. Hell, you can tape the woofers dust cap with your nail and you'll hear the pitch of the ports. I'm also considering getting some of this ugly scrap carpet whatever material the cabinet is lined with and stuff some in between.

I'm still having annoying mix translation issues with 2031, same I had with 8030c, mixing out the energy of the track. I'm wondering if it's either the fact that I just don't care for waveguided tweeters or the room is just nasty. It has some treatment but I'm not sure it's very effective, measurements show almost no change in frequency response? Guess they aren't in the right spots.

I ended up finishing a pair of classix II's the other day, what a lovely speaker. I did a quick mix on a track with bother speakers and the classix II mix was a lot better, didn't have the energy suck out I keep getting with waveguided speakers (classix II have waveguide but very, very shallow). I also felt zero fatigue after working on them while the 2031 leave me quite fatigued even with tweeter at -4 and noaudiophile tweeter cuts. I was looking at some waveguide research and it looks like the common result of using them is that you get extended lower octaves of the tweeter, at the cost of peaks in the upper range. Both KH80 and 8030c have the peaks and I didn't like those.
 

mightycicadalord

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Dayum, I just got my power bill for dec and my power usage went up double since Nov. It's the highest it's ever been here. We have gas heating too and the usage is even double what it was last year at the same time. The only thing that changed electrically here is the speakers. I can't imagine these things being responsible for an additional 600kw hours by themselves....

How would one measure idle power usage of the amplifiers?
 
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Digby

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From memory one speaker pulls about 30-35 watts at the plug at idle.
 

mightycicadalord

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From memory one speaker pulls about 30-35 watts at the plug at idle.

Yeah that's definitely not enough to push our bill this high. Hope we don't have a rouge appliance.

I didn't end up doing the test blind but I came to same conclusions on just about every song, and the most common complaint is that the behringers have no center image. I don't know why, but I had this problem on all the waveguided speakers I've tried, it's just not there? No matter the placement or EQ it just doesn't happen. Anyone else notice this on waveguided stuff?
 
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Sengin

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In theory, yes, but in practise the speakers will shut off at normal, but low level volumes (even when amps are at low gain on speaker, requiring larger input) and then you have to turn the volume up to loud to get them to turn on again. Not much fun.
Ugh, that sucks. Is the volume knob on your speaker all the way up or back at unity (which looks to be at the 12:00 position)?
 
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Digby

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At the lowest position, -6db.
 
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Digby

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Fancy that, any more wisdom to dispense?
 

krabapple

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Yes. For heaven's sake, if you're going to use monitors, get a subwoofer (or two).

And read Olive/Toole on how unbiased speaker comparison are done.
 
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Digby

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Your first point seems sensible enough, but your second I'm not so sure about.

I have to read a book to learn how to differentiate between speakers so I can determine which, subjectively, I prefer the sound of? I know what you will say, that sighted listening is biased, but my bias was to favor the Genelecs, not the Behringer. The Genelecs are more expensive; better made; don't have the niggly faults of the Behringer, yet when it came to sound I favored the Behringer.

I think the idea that people cannot understand their own bias and account for it is pretty ridiculous. I understand how it would apply to group listening and that blind testing is better for extracting useful data from groups of people, but if a person cannot decide which speakers they prefer by sighted listening, should they even be put in charge of tasks like tying their own shoelaces?
 

RobL

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Yeah that's definitely not enough to push our bill this high. Hope we don't have a rouge appliance.

I didn't end up doing the test blind but I came to same conclusions on just about every song, and the most common complaint is that the behringers have no center image. I don't know why, but I had this problem on all the waveguided speakers I've tried, it's just not there? No matter the placement or EQ it just doesn't happen. Anyone else notice this on waveguided stuff?
Not at all, the imaging on my 1032’s is exceptional. As good as any speaker I’ve owned and better than the majority.
 

mightycicadalord

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Not at all, the imaging on my 1032’s is exceptional. As good as any speaker I’ve owned and better than the majority.

I'm curious how they're setup, the toe in mostly. I haven't been able to get a defined center with any speaker I have with waveguides, 8030c and kh80 were frustratingly the same, so I'm gonna try this extreme toe in to see if helps. I have some atc SCM12 passives that have a very defined center. I think I actually might prefer speakers that narrow as they go up in freq, it makes more sense to my brain I guess.

I've also noticed the waveguide-less stuff I have gives me the impression of a wider sound stage. Sometimes I'll get little phantom noises where it sounds like there's a speaker somewhere else in the room. It makes me inner Keanu Reeves go "whoa".
 

Trell

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I think the idea that people cannot understand their own bias and account for it is pretty ridiculous.

One way to account for bias is a double blind test.
 

RobL

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I'm curious how they're setup, the toe in mostly. I haven't been able to get a defined center with any speaker I have with waveguides, 8030c and kh80 were frustratingly the same, so I'm gonna try this extreme toe in to see if helps. I have some atc SCM12 passives that have a very defined center. I think I actually might prefer speakers that narrow as they go up in freq, it makes more sense to my brain I guess.

I've also noticed the waveguide-less stuff I have gives me the impression of a wider sound stage. Sometimes I'll get little phantom noises where it sounds like there's a speaker somewhere else in the room. It makes me inner Keanu Reeves go "whoa".
What’s your set up look like? How are you connecting the monitors? Have you made sure they’re level-matched?
 

mightycicadalord

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What’s your set up look like? How are you connecting the monitors? Have you made sure they’re level-matched?

Basically this pic here. I did have them in the large living room today to compare with another speaker but the issues with diffuse center image persisted. There's a 4'x4'x4" ceiling absorber and a big one on the rear wall. I've experimented with treating the side walls with absorption but it just sounds worse so I leave it as it. I never did any level matching because my measurements always showed them to be at the same vol. Coming out of motu m4 via xlr.

Tried that extreme toe in I linked earlier, yeah no. Center is there but the rest of the imaging got worse. Instead of exanding out the sound doesn't go beyond the speakers themselves. No bueno.
 

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