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A tale of two speakers (B2031A and 8030c)
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mightycicadalord
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They have since been shortened a lot and my ears sit right in between the tweeter and woofer. They were way too tall before.
thewas
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Am not sure though if it would change anything at obvious differences like loudspeakers where he is used to the sonic signatures of both and would probably easily recognise both in a blind test too. What would be more interesting to me would be if other listeners would perceive the differences similarly and have also the same preference and to which measured parameters those correspond.
I bought the B2031A in 2006(?).
The imaging of these speakers was really good. The soundstage had quiet sharp phantom images.
Did you try another source for the speakers, like your phone?
mightycicadalord
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Why would I use a phone when I have quality audio interfaces? not really any way for me to get my phone into xlr.
Using same interface with other speakers and they're fine.
Idk what to say, maybe people have differing opinion of imaging but to my ears I'm hearing a center that bounces around and isn't distinct. I have some other speakers that in the same configuration are producing a very strong center.
Using same interface with other speakers and they're fine.
Idk what to say, maybe people have differing opinion of imaging but to my ears I'm hearing a center that bounces around and isn't distinct. I have some other speakers that in the same configuration are producing a very strong center.
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hi thank you very much for this very interesting thread that i have found just now and i am reading
It seems to me that the elephant in the room are distortion measurements I do not why nobody care about distortion Almost any other aspect is investigated but distortion is almost always neglected
At the beginning the OP says that the Genelec sound limited in the very low ? it could be that are limited by design
If a speaker has high distortion below lets say 50Hz if you cut out the frequencies below that point you will not get the distortion You will not ear what there is not
And now on the Behringer i have They are a 200USD speaker https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...truth-b2031a-8.75-inch-powered-studio-monitor
i understand that usually in a commercial speaker components cost around 25% that means just 50USD and this include everything
This means that the woofer can be as cheap as 20USD What kind of transducer can 20USD buy ?
My point is ... replace that cheap woofer with something really decent and compatible for size and T/S parameters and the sound will take off I am sure of this
The woofer quality is the key to performance This unit cannot be that good It is impossible
I have looked at it and the cone plastic is not treated = flabby bass for sure
And big distortion as well
I see in a review
0 distortion at 50Hz and 116dB ? .... come on
I am sure the woofer is holding back the performance of the whole speaker
It seems to me that the elephant in the room are distortion measurements I do not why nobody care about distortion Almost any other aspect is investigated but distortion is almost always neglected
At the beginning the OP says that the Genelec sound limited in the very low ? it could be that are limited by design
If a speaker has high distortion below lets say 50Hz if you cut out the frequencies below that point you will not get the distortion You will not ear what there is not
And now on the Behringer i have They are a 200USD speaker https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...truth-b2031a-8.75-inch-powered-studio-monitor
i understand that usually in a commercial speaker components cost around 25% that means just 50USD and this include everything
This means that the woofer can be as cheap as 20USD What kind of transducer can 20USD buy ?
My point is ... replace that cheap woofer with something really decent and compatible for size and T/S parameters and the sound will take off I am sure of this
The woofer quality is the key to performance This unit cannot be that good It is impossible
I have looked at it and the cone plastic is not treated = flabby bass for sure
And big distortion as well
I see in a review
this kind of specifications cannot be true
0 distortion at 50Hz and 116dB ? .... come on
I am sure the woofer is holding back the performance of the whole speaker
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Archaea
Active Member
I have done compression sweeps on the b2031a and it isn’t going to do uniform compression sweeps up to 116dB at 1 meter for sure. But it is a very nice sounding speaker that I quite enjoyed!
post 700
post 700
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hi thank you very much Sorry but what is a "compression sweep" ? never heard of that
By the way if your Mackie have this woofer here wow ... this surely looks very serious
size aside i have no doubt that the Mackies punch a lot more without compression
Archaea
Active Member
Compressions sweep testing is just a way to determine if your speakers exhibit distortion, compression, or inaccuracies as shown by frequency response up to reference level at the Main Listening Position. It’s going to be unique per room, mostly based on distance,(but other factors can sure apply - amplifier power, boundary gain, on/off axis ). Ideally any speaker can play to reference 105dB peaks in your room at the main listening position, that is, if you care about THX reference to have a like experience to the best quality commercial cinema. This test helps ensure your speakers to not change in sound as they approach and meet that 105dB at your seats for dynamic peak cinema content. Worse case it can help you establish a “max” volume with your speakers to know what they are capable of without any negative behavior.hi thank you very much Sorry but what is a "compression sweep" ? never heard of that
By the way if your Mackie have this woofer here wow ... this surely looks very serious
size aside i have no doubt that the Mackies punch a lot more without compression
To test turn off all EQ, put your AVR in its direct sound mode, apply the chosen crossover but turn off subwoofers (as you are just testing the speaker). Ensure your mic is calibrated for SPL, and run sweeps increasing in volume in 3dB or even 5dB steps until either the speaker frequency response sweep stops raising in parallel from the previous sweep for the amount of additional volume applied, (IE a 5dB increase on the volume dial should increase the frequency response sweep by 5dB across the whole - if it doesn’t — you have encountered compression. The limitation of the speaker, amplifier, or placement relative to your MLP. Raise until your hit reference, the frequency response plot shows a non parallel raise, or until the speaker sounds audibly distressed. Quit immediately after either negative condition is found.
A poor test looks like this:
post 942
A decent test looks like this:
Post 1554
I don’t have the Mackie c200 anymore. But their components are discussed in detail here. They are a very competent EAW designed speaker for the money. (Although they went from $200 to $300+ in the last 5 years)
a 20USD woofer can only be bad There are no miracles in technology
I am more than sure that a distortions measurement carried out on the Behringer would show high distortion in the woofer range for one reason The cone is made of not treated plastic My guess is that is made out of PP PP is not stiff enough by itself It must be charged/coated with something that could provide the needed stiffness
Change that woofer with something really good and you have a very good studio monitor
And if you want to go further change the tweeter with a Dynaudio, Seas or similar quality units
I am more than sure that a distortions measurement carried out on the Behringer would show high distortion in the woofer range for one reason The cone is made of not treated plastic My guess is that is made out of PP PP is not stiff enough by itself It must be charged/coated with something that could provide the needed stiffness
Change that woofer with something really good and you have a very good studio monitor
And if you want to go further change the tweeter with a Dynaudio, Seas or similar quality units
Thanks a lot But excuse me Why not doing a proper distortion measurement ? is that difficult to carry out ?
it must be very demanding because there is no trace of that in almost any datasheet
I like this kind of reports
Test Bench: Accuton C30-6-358 High-End Tweeter
Test Bench of Accuton's C30-6-358 “Cell Concept” neodymium motor ceramic diaphragm 30 mm tweeter.
Archaea
Active Member
Not any more difficult, but two things - how do you remove the room distortions unless you perform this test outside? Also if just one plot is showing as in that test at 110dB. It doesn’t tell you anything about whether the speaker can perform at reference at your seats. I see this as two different tests with two different purposes.Thanks a lot But excuse me Why not doing a proper distortion measurement ? is that difficult to carry out ?
it must be very demanding because there is no trace of that in almost any datasheet
I like this kind of reports
Test Bench: Accuton C30-6-358 High-End Tweeter
Test Bench of Accuton's C30-6-358 “Cell Concept” neodymium motor ceramic diaphragm 30 mm tweeter.audioxpress.com
i think i understand your point
but in all truth do you think it is possible to make a good woofer for 20USD?
i don't want to sound rude but it must be pretty shity
and in the behringer has to cover from 20 to 2000 Hz not an easy task
my best candidate for replacement is the Visaton AL200
it's nice thing is that keeps a good dispersion also at 2 kHz
but just one costs like the whole speakers
i have no way to check instrumentally and i am really sorry for this
however this is the behaviour of the smaller brother taken from this really great forum Thank you Dr Amir
chances are that the bigger brother has a very similar low performance
I hope someone one day will take the time to check distortion
what if the guy is easily impressionable ?
i would be curious to remove the shielding to see the magnet
I am pretty sure i will start to cry ...
Lord knows how much i would like that this were possibile But it is just not possible Because this would change all the world
In general i think that what makes the real difference between a high league studio monitor and a cheap one (DSP aside) is the quality of the drivers used
Cheap but very decent amps can be built with the best power packs available
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Possible. He wouldn’t be the only one though.what if the guy is easily impressionable ?
Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!?
Having lived and refining my DIY dipoles I'm very happy how they render recording. Obviously the Orions are my dream speakers which I would never afford with such mortgage :vampire:. The dipoles are very untiring and natural to hear albeit their obvious limitations in Bass and transition to dome...
hi thank you very much for the link ... i think i have found what i was looking forPossible. He wouldn’t be the only one though.
Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!?
Having lived and refining my DIY dipoles I'm very happy how they render recording. Obviously the Orions are my dream speakers which I would never afford with such mortgage :vampire:. The dipoles are very untiring and natural to hear albeit their obvious limitations in Bass and transition to dome...www.diyaudio.com
honestly i do not know if this distortion is high or not
i am very ignorant i admit
Is it high ? tell me that is high please
i have already bought 3 pairs of 8" to try them out ... Seas, Monacor and Visaton