A Blind Test Attempt: Neumann KH310+Sub vs KH120+Sub, and My Thoughts on CEA2034 and Preference Rating

[sysfc6]

H

对于这种距离，我推荐KH150。只有当你听的音乐有低于40赫兹的重要内容时，你才需要KH750。很少有音乐是有内容的。

Is the 150 better for long distance listening than the 310?

 

[teashea]

Neither are designed for long distance listening. They are designed as nearfield monitors.

 

[sysfc6]

If you add a pair of 750s to go with them, would they be suitable for medium to long distance listening

 

[teashea]

If you add a pair of 750s to go with them, would they be suitable for medium to long distance listening

The KH750 extends the low frequencies but does nothing to make the KH 150's louder or more suitable for medium or long distances.

 

[boxerfan88]

Is the 150 better for long distance listening than the 310?

On my KH310 setup, main listening position is about 2.7m (midfield), and it works very very good.

Neumann website specs says that both KH310/KH150 is good for 0.75m - 6.0m; and your 2.5m is within the recommended distance.

 

[sysfc6]

在我的KH310系统中，主听音位置大约是2.7米(中场)，效果非常好。

诺依曼网站specs上说KH310/KH150都是0.75m - 6.0m的好；而你的2.5m在推荐距离内。

So is your advice to buy 150 plus or minus 750? or to buy 310 plus or minus 750.? Or just buy 420?

 

[boxerfan88]

So is your advice to buy 150 plus or minus 750? or to buy 310 plus or minus 750.? Or just buy 420?

You should do your own due diligence.

If you ask my advice:

• first choice = if you have the budget, just go and buy the KH420 (which already includes 10" woofer)
• second choice = the midrange dome is really good, so buy the KH310 + subwoofer
• third choice = KH150 + subwoofer

^^ for my case, I did not buy subwoofer from neumann, i re-used the Orisun DD+12 push-pull subwoofer that i already own.

 

[sysfc6]

在我的KH310系统中，主听音位置大约是2.7米(中场)，效果非常好。

诺依曼网站specs上说KH310/KH150都是0.75m - 6.0m的好；而你的2.5m在推荐距离内。

You should do your own due diligence.

If you ask my advice:

• first choice = if you have the budget, just go and buy the KH420 (which already includes 10" woofer)
• second choice = the midrange dome is really good, so buy the KH310 + subwoofer
• third choice = KH150 + subwoofer

^^ for my case, I did not buy subwoofer from neumann, i re-used the Orisun DD+12 push-pull subwoofer that i already own.

Can Orisun replace the 750? I have a RythmikL12 will it replace the 750.How is your subwoofer working?

 

[boxerfan88]

Can Orisun replace the 750? I have a RythmikL12 will it replace the 750.How is your subwoofer working?

Unfortunately the Orisun cannot replace the KH750 because the Orisun does not have stereo bass management.

I do my bass management in software (foobar) and output 3 channel (L + R + OrisunSub) using Topping DM7.

I think the KH750 may work better for you, since it is already designed to work with both KH310 and KH150.

.

 

[test1223]

The shrillness is probably not caused by the tweeter but the woofer. I found one particularly shrill piano note from the sheet music of a piano piece. The fundamental of that note is at only 349Hz, meaning this note does not activate the tweeter until its sixth harmonic. My theory is that, when holding the tweeter and sub constant, the combination of a dome and a big woofer is better than a small woofer. Quite an obvious explanation, isn’t it? But it isn’t so obvious in the CEA2034 data.

I also have observed some shrillness of the KH120. My interpretation is that the wiggles of the di from 1.5kHz to 4kHz are not good. They are almost exactly in the wrong direction.

The frequency responses and therefore the di from 500Hz 4kHz are very important small deviations here are much more important than other bigger differences.

I guess the harmonics from the piano note you mentioned hit some of the wiggles I mentioned.

 

[Haskil]

On my KH310 setup, main listening position is about 2.7m (midfield), and it works very very good.

Neumann website specs says that both KH310/KH150 is good for 0.75m - 6.0m; and your 2.5m is within the recommended distance.

I have just participated in a program on the French public classical music channel France Musique during which we compare several interpretations of the same piece of music.

In a studio which is 25 m2 acoustically treated. We are at a distance of about 2,7-3 m from the Neuman KH 310 and we are listening levelly, not softly.

This time, we were comparing Debussy Preludes for piano and, as always, blindly. And we've never been frustrated with these speakers that I've gotten to know since they replaced the Genelec 1032s in broadcast studios. The sound fills the studio with fullness without any problem...

In the preludes, there are very low notes played pianissimos or fortissimos: we hear them perfectly well.

And these speakers unfortunately have us! also allowed us to say all the bad things we thought about certain sound recordings, which were truly appalling...
If someone has the courage: let them go and listen to Kryztian Zimerman in Debussy's La Cathédrale gloutie, Préludes Livres 1... Horrible... and very instructive...

 

[boxerfan88]

If someone has the courage: let them go and listen to Kryztian Zimerman in Debussy's La Cathédrale gloutie, Préludes Livres 1... Horrible... and very instructive...

This one?

Krystian Zimerman - Debussy: Préludes / Book 1, L.117 - 10. La cathédrale engloutie (Live)

Listen to Debussy: Préludes / Book 1, L.117 - 10. La cathédrale engloutie (Live) on TIDAL

tidal.com

 

[LTig]

Neither are designed for long distance listening. They are designed as nearfield monitors.

... and still sound better than most similar sized 2-way and 3-way speakers, regardless of the listening distance. I run a pair of O300D (predecessor of KH310) at 3.8m distance in a 50 sqm room, accompanied by a Genelec 7060b sub and they sound fantastic (also without sub).

 

[Haskil]

This one?

Krystian Zimerman - Debussy: Préludes / Book 1, L.117 - 10. La cathédrale engloutie (Live)

Listen to Debussy: Préludes / Book 1, L.117 - 10. La cathédrale engloutie (Live) on TIDAL

tidal.com

Yes... and also Ce qu'à vu le vent d'Ouest...

 

[teashea]

Do not let wishful thinking people deceive you. Neumann says (on its website) that the recommended listening distance is 1.0 to 2.5 meters.

Of course you can use them at longer distances but that is not "recommended" by Neumann.

I have tried them at distances longer than 2.5 meters and the sound substantially degraded.

 

[Haskil]

And yet listened to from 20 to 50 cm further, in a public broadcasting radio studio with very high level installations and in a treated studio, they work very very well. I got closer several times and didn't notice any differences, except that their wide spacing is designed for a relatively long listening distance.

 

[boxerfan88]

Do not let people deceive you that at 2.51 meters, the sound will be substantially degraded.
I trust Neumann engineering team when they spec the KH310 for 0.75 … 6.0 m

 

[test1223]

Do not let people deceive you that at 2.51 meters, the sound will be substantially degraded.
I trust Neumann engineering team when they spec the KH310 for 0.75 … 6.0 m

There is the problem that you will never get a high amount of direct sound with distances beyond 2.5m. Even 2.5 is a stretch it might slight fit with an overdamped room. 1.3m Listening distance is about the best distance in a standard room. The potential lack of direct sound is not good compared with a proper listening distance it is much more important to choose a speaker which does this right over getting a speaker which looks better "on paper".

 

[sysfc6]

问题是，在超过2.5米的距离内，你永远不会获得大量的直接声音。即使2.5米也是一个延伸，它可能与过度阻尼的房间略有出入。1.3m的听音距离，大概是标准间的最佳距离。与适当的听音距离相比，直接声音的潜在缺乏是不好的。选择一个能做到这一点的扬声器比选择一个“在纸上”看起来更好的扬声器更重要。

Do you mean, 2.5 meters choose 420, not 310?

 

[test1223]

Do you mean, 2.5 meters choose 420, not 310?

Yes, definitely KH420 for that listening distance. I personally would even consider slightly bigger speakers. It depends on the room acoustics. In an average threaded room a slight bigger speaker should be better.

Most people aren't aware that you need very big speakers or in other words high beaming if you want a listening distance in the ballpark of 3m.