90% Movies, Corner Loading Room - which sub?

[Bimbleton]

Narrowed down to these two. Equivalent price. May buy a second years down the road. Which do you recommend?

13x22x7’ media room, with 2 adjacent 10x10 rooms separated by a door.
Concrete slab
MLP 8ft away
Vast majority is movie watching at 90-95db bass max.

My brain says get the ported because it’s better for movies.
My heart wants the sealed F18 to plumb the depths of the frequency range. I’ve never experienced a sub that big and I want to.

What would you recommend?

ONE IMPORTANT POINT: the best sub placement (corner by 2 concrete slabs) yields a MASSIVE +10db boost below 45HZ for my current HSU VTF2.

 

[Curvature]

You're good with what you have.

Multiple subs for more even bass distribution around the room would be more helpful than a sidegrade (or slight upgrade) to a Rythmik.

 

[Bimbleton]

Yeah I’m wondering if it actually makes more sense to get a second matching 12” and instead upgrade my center (which has dialogue clarity issues moving from seat to seat).

 

[Curvature]

Yeah I’m wondering if it actually makes more sense to get a second matching 12” and instead upgrade my center (which has dialogue clarity issues moving from seat to seat).

New target acquired, I'd say.

 

[Bimbleton]

Revel C208 + a second HSU VTF2? Might be a good combo…

 

[Chromatischism]

My heart wants the sealed F18 to plumb the depths of the frequency range. I’ve never experienced a sub that big and I want to.

Anymore, I always go ported unless I need a physically smaller sub.

That is for the same reasons almost all speakers sold today are ported. The efficiency gain is just too hard to pass up, and implemented well, there are no audible tradeoffs with low-tuned subs.

When you want to "plumb the depths", you will actually feel those depths much more with the ported sub.

The stuff under 10 Hz just causes rattles 50ft away across the house, but nothing at your seat. At least, in my experience.

 

[Chromatischism]

I'm trying to make sense of what the measurements mean in the context of this thread. They certainly don't relate to the subwoofer choices. I see a speaker measurement that is noticeably brighter than the other.

 

[Bimbleton]

I'm trying to make sense of what the measurements mean in the context of this thread. They certainly don't relate to the subwoofer choices. I see a speaker measurement that is noticeably brighter than the other.

ah sorry should’ve clarified. The brighter speaker is my center, a Rebel C25.

The reason I included the picture is to show the corner loading my room/sub placement creates, particularly below 50hz. Unfortunately, placement in other places creates dramatic, audible nulls.

A matching sub could potentially create a nice even response.

 

[Chrispy]

ah sorry should’ve clarified. The brighter speaker is my center, a Rebel C25.

The reason I included the picture is to show the corner loading my room/sub placement creates, particularly below 50hz. Unfortunately, placement in other places creates dramatic, audible nulls.

A matching sub could potentially create a nice even response.

And matching subs are generally easier to integrate as well. Although you can always go Geddes otoh.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

When you want to "plumb the depths", you will actually feel those depths much more with the ported sub.

The stuff under 10 Hz just causes rattles 50ft away across the house, but nothing at your seat. At least, in my experience.

What?

And you should definitely feel 10 Hz stuff in your room.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

And matching subs are generally easier to integrate as well. Although you can always go Geddes otoh.

Where does Geddes state that you can mix all kinds of subs?

 

[Curvature]

Where does Geddes state that you can mix all kinds of subs?

He's said IIRC that you don't have to do phase or time alignment as long as you sufficiently randomize sub placement according to his schema. That and EQ helps with in room FR. As such there's no need to have all follow the same brands/model.

 

[Curvature]

Revel C208 + a second HSU VTF2? Might be a good combo…

I'd agree.

In your position I would consider the Revel 426Be, if I had the room of course. https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/revel-performa-f226be-c426be/conclusion

Bass is awesome, but a lack of clarity is worse IMO.

 

[Bimbleton]

He's said IIRC that you don't have to do phase or time alignment as long as you sufficiently randomize sub placement according to his schema. That and EQ helps with in room FR. As such there's no need to have all follow the same brands/model.

Not a chance in hell my wife would allow randomized sub placement

 

[fieldcar]

Have you considered this to fill in the 5-20Hz void?

 

[Killingbeans]

Yeah I’m wondering if it actually makes more sense to get a second matching 12” and instead upgrade my center (which has dialogue clarity issues moving from seat to seat).

ah sorry should’ve clarified. The brighter speaker is my center, a Rebel C25.

Made me think of this video. I don't have a home theater setup, but if I ever get one, I'll do a hard pass on any MTM centers:

 

[Curvature]

Not a chance in hell my wife would allow randomized sub placement

Hard to use another word for it. If I'm not mistaken the simple way of putting it is: three subs: one along the front wall, one along the back wall, one along the side wall. The corner may only be used once.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

He's said IIRC that you don't have to do phase or time alignment as long as you sufficiently randomize sub placement according to his schema. That and EQ helps with in room FR. As such there's no need to have all follow the same brands/model.

I know that he states that three subs is enough. But if he also says you don't need phase and time alignment then three subs isn't gonna cut it in my opinion.
Maybe in a small room. In a normal sized room for that to work you would need some serious subs to get away with only three.

 

[Curvature]

But if he also says you don't need phase and time alignment then three subs isn't gonna cut it in my opinion.

Why? Neither of those aspects are related to the size of rooms.

His comments are based on psychoacoustics. The range of time it takes for the ear to register low bass means that time alignment becomes meaningless.

His requirement for three subs is based on optimally exciting as many modes in a room as possible in an uncorrelated manner. This renders phase adjustment unnecessary, as does running the mains without a high pass filter and subs without low pass.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Why? Neither of those aspects are related to the size of rooms.

His comments are based on psychoacoustics. The range of time it takes for the ear to register low bass means that time alignment becomes meaningless.

His requirement for three subs is based on optimally exciting as many modes in a room as possible in an uncorrelated manner. This renders phase adjustment unnecessary, as does running the mains without a high pass filter and subs without low pass.

Then why does all room corrections time align subs? Or why do people manually do it?

20Hz: 343.987m/s

20kHz: 344.1206m/s

In a worst case scenario without phase adjustment couldn't two of the three subs cancel each other out and leave only one sub to perform as intended?

I didn't know or I had forgot that his setup don't use low pass.
It's possible to localize a sub playing over 80 Hz, but three subs over 80 Hz I don't know.