$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[Lsc]

The first question is how do you think modern horns would sound to you?

The second question: do you have a home office or study that might benefit from a second audio system?

I’d guess it sounds the JBL Everest I heard at Axpona. All of the advantages that horns provide without the harshness of yesteryear’s horns.

I have 3 systems. My main one in the family room. And 2 in the basement for my kids. A game room (for video games) and a “rec” room. My old Revel speakers and old electronics from before was used in these rooms so mostly old stuff. I do have my JL F113 in the game room and my sealed SVS sub (sb13 ultra) in the rec room. I can’t afford the JBLs .

 

[MKR]

I’d guess it sounds the JBL Everest I heard at Axpona. All of the advantages that horns provide without the harshness of yesteryear’s horns.

I have 3 systems. My main one in the family room. And 2 in the basement for my kids. A game room (for video games) and a “rec” room. My old Revel speakers and old electronics from before was used in these rooms so mostly old stuff. I do have my JL F113 in the game room and my sealed SVS sub (sb13 ultra) in the rec room. I can’t afford the JBLs .

$2k for a pair now, but keep an eye out for sales and refurbs. As most are aware at this point given my previous posts, I picked up a pair of refurbed 590s for $760

Studio 590 | 250-watt, dual 8" floorstanding loudspeaker

The JBL® Studio 590 floorstanding loudspeaker brings professional-quality sound to the home experience. The Studio 590 uses the technology that JBL engineers developed for pro-audio loudspeakers to deliver accurate, powerful sound to your living room. The Studio 590 is a perfect complement to...

www.jbl.com

 

[Lsc]

Not to offend your Fortes, but those are a literal broken design … every time I hear Klipsch, from the bottom of their lineup to the top, my ears literally detach from my skull and run away … listen to a well engineered compression/horn design and I strongly suspect you would have a very different opinion. My very modest JBL Studio 590s are anything but ear bleeders

These were my pride and joy for many years so I’m slightly offended lol. I blame my “impaired” hearing to these guys. I actually got a headache a couple of hours ago and had to turn everything off and took a recovery nap.

I do like very dynamic speakers but I doubt I can ever get the Wilson’s. I don’t think I’ll ever buy horn speakers again and the other systems have my 2 pairs of F12s as main speakers which I feel are perfectly serviceable in those rooms. My kids love their systems especially the room with the F113. Small room so the bass is thundering.

Have you thought about amps yet? I need something else to look forward to .

 

[Emlin]

Not to offend your Fortes, but those are a literal broken design … every time I hear Klipsch, from the bottom of their lineup to the top, my ears literally detach from my skull and run away … listen to a well engineered compression/horn design and I strongly suspect you would have a very different opinion. My very modest JBL Studio 590s are anything but ear bleeders

Really? Literally? I think not...

 

[MKR]

These were my pride and joy for many years so I’m slightly offended lol. I blame my “impaired” hearing to these guys. I actually got a headache a couple of hours ago and had to turn everything off and took a recovery nap.

I do like very dynamic speakers but I doubt I can ever get the Wilson’s. I don’t think I’ll ever buy horn speakers again and the other systems have my 2 pairs of F12s as main speakers which I feel are perfectly serviceable in those rooms. My kids love their systems especially the room with the F113. Small room so the bass is thundering.

Have you thought about amps yet? I need something else to look forward to .

No need for Wilson … You can do better for a LOT less money, you are paying a
lot for the Wilson (overrated) name and the “jewelry“ factor. I will admit the new Sasha DAWs sound very nice, but your Salon 2s blow the doors off of em

As to amps, one step at a time LOL … but I have actually been thinking about it. Though ultimately fully depends on the sensitivity of the speakers I get. For example, the amp choice for Salon 2 will be VERY different than the amp choice for Legacy Aeris. I should note I do currently have a very capable amp/preamp that I will at least try with the Salon 2s if I go that direction. But I do worry the W5 may not have enough juice for the Salon 2s, though it is no doubt a very capable amp that has driven all kinds of speaker loads to ear splitting levels, and never flinched.

In case you were curious …

https://simaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/75_en_guide_v_p-5-preamplifier.pdf

SoundStage! Equipment Review - Simaudio Moon W-5 Amplifier (2/2000)

 

[MKR]

Really? Literally? I think not...

Sorry, I should have been more specific … I am referring to the older Klipsch designs, including the Forte. I have not heard the latest incarnation, the Forte IV, but I have read it is actually well designed and quite nice.

 

[Lsc]

No need for Wilson … You can do better for a LOT less money, you are paying a
lot for the Wilson (overrated) name and the “jewelry“ factor. I will admit the new Sasha DAWs sound very nice, but your Salon 2s blow the doors off of em

As to amps, one step at a time LOL … but I have actually been thinking about it. Though ultimately fully depends on the sensitivity of the speakers I get. For example, the amp choice for Salon 2 will be VERY different than the amp choice for Legacy Aeris. I should note I do currently have a very capable amp/preamp that I will at least try with the Salon 2s if I go that direction. But I do worry the W5 may not have enough juice for the Salon 2s, though it is no doubt a very capable amp that has driven all kinds of speaker loads to ear splitting levels, and never flinched.

In case you were curious …

https://simaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/75_en_guide_v_p-5-preamplifier.pdf

SoundStage! Equipment Review - Simaudio Moon W-5 Amplifier (2/2000)

Seems like you may have the same dilemma as me. You have a very good amp but if you want to upgrade, how much will it cost to get an upgrade that’s worthwhile?

Simaudio! I actually never really heard of this brand until my buddy started talking about it and bought the 860A (v1). He also has salon2 and we did a side by side with the ATI6000 vs the Moon 860A…now there are people who say all amps sound the same…the 860A walked all over the ATI6000. The ATI6000 still sounds good but it wasn’t close.

I can’t be dropping 20 g’s on a power amp so I’m hoping for a solution where it’s somewhat attainable.

 

[Holmz]

Seems like you may have the same dilemma as me. You have a very good amp but if you want to upgrade, how much will it cost to get an upgrade that’s worthwhile?

It depends on how gawd awefull the impedance of the speaker is that one wants to drive.

Simaudio! I actually never really heard of this brand until my buddy started talking about it and bought the 860A (v1). He also has salon2 and we did a side by side with the ATI6000 vs the Moon 860A…now there are people who say all amps sound the same…the 860A walked all over the ATI6000. The ATI6000 still sounds good but it wasn’t close.

I can’t be dropping 20 g’s on a power amp so I’m hoping for a solution where it’s somewhat attainable.

 

[Absolute]

Concerning dynamics; the sense of dynamics is often related to frequency response in my experience. A rising trend in the highs comes off as more dynamic regardless of horns or not. And distortion and compression can also subjectively give increased sense of dynamics. Of course, there's other "tricks" as well, like limited dispersion and arrival time of frequencies. Higher directivity gives higher SN ratio and early arrival of the high frequencies gives a smack to the highs - at the cost of coherency of soundstage and warmth. (Personal opinion based on testing).

Ever heard the phrase "Klipsch is very dynamic"? Well, I was mighty surprised when all that dynamics went away as soon as I used EQ to flatten the extreme rising response from 2-10 khz in the cute little RP-160m I had. Lesson learned and now I can easily demonstrate that my M2's can change from highly dynamic to soft pudding by changing the frequency response of the tweeter.
I'm willing to bet @MKR 's good name that the reason you see many of the horn speakers from Klipsch and JBL with a rising trend is because they live and die for the reputation of perceived dynamics.

All very high capacity speakers with neutral response I've heard have had the same trait, shocking the shit out of me when I turn to talk only to realize the volume is way higher than I thought. If it sounds very loud when it's not, it's likely you have either shit acoustics or distorting/compressing drivers.

 

[Lsc]

Concerning dynamics; the sense of dynamics is often related to frequency response in my experience. A rising trend in the highs comes off as more dynamic regardless of horns or not. And distortion and compression can also subjectively give increased sense of dynamics. Of course, there's other "tricks" as well, like limited dispersion and arrival time of frequencies. Higher directivity gives higher SN ratio and early arrival of the high frequencies gives a smack to the highs - at the cost of coherency of soundstage and warmth. (Personal opinion based on testing).

Ever heard the phrase "Klipsch is very dynamic"? Well, I was mighty surprised when all that dynamics went away as soon as I used EQ to flatten the extreme rising response from 2-10 khz in the cute little RP-160m I had. Lesson learned and now I can easily demonstrate that my M2's can change from highly dynamic to soft pudding by changing the frequency response of the tweeter.
I'm willing to bet @MKR 's good name that the reason you see many of the horn speakers from Klipsch and JBL with a rising trend is because they live and die for the reputation of perceived dynamics.

All very high capacity speakers with neutral response I've heard have had the same trait, shocking the shit out of me when I turn to talk only to realize the volume is way higher than I thought. If it sounds very loud when it's not, it's likely you have either shit acoustics or distorting/compressing drivers.

I have heard that Kllipsch is very dynamic but the JBL M2 is an animal when it comes to dynamics .

 

[Doodski]

Kllipsch is very dynamic but the JBL M2 is an animal when it comes to dynamics .

Yeah! I would be cranking this on the m2 prontO to check out the dynamics and musicality.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Ever heard the phrase "Klipsch is very dynamic"? Well, I was mighty surprised when all that dynamics went away as soon as I used EQ to flatten the extreme rising response from 2-10 khz in the cute little RP-160m I had. Lesson learned and now I can easily demonstrate that my M2's can change from highly dynamic to soft pudding by changing the frequency response of the tweeter.

I get your point, but the vintage Klipsch speakers with over 100dB are pretty dynamic even with some of the peaks removed, but you do have to enjoy their sound. I kind of do, but as I have mentioned before... I can visit them, but I can't live with them.

I’d guess it sounds the JBL Everest I heard at Axpona. All of the advantages that horns provide without the harshness of yesteryear’s horns.

100%

I really enjoyed my Everests for the 6 years I had them. They absolutely do not have deep bass, but otherwise I prefer them to the M2s and almost everything else I have heard.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Yeah! I would be cranking this on the m2 prontO to check out the dynamics and musicality.

Not for this pair of ears.

 

[Lsc]

Yeah! I would be cranking this on the m2 prontO to check out the dynamics and musicality.

You know these type of songs are the ones that don’t sound great on the salon2. It’s sounds just ok.

 

[Doodski]

You know these type of songs are the ones that don’t sound great on the salon2. It’s sounds just ok.

It's dated and the sound quality might be a lil flat but it's what I am used to.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Why are all the Revel drivers white ?

 

[Emlin]

Why are all the Revel drivers white ?

They have a better chance of survival that way.

 

[MKR]

Seems like you may have the same dilemma as me. You have a very good amp but if you want to upgrade, how much will it cost to get an upgrade that’s worthwhile?

Simaudio! I actually never really heard of this brand until my buddy started talking about it and bought the 860A (v1). He also has salon2 and we did a side by side with the ATI6000 vs the Moon 860A…now there are people who say all amps sound the same…the 860A walked all over the ATI6000. The ATI6000 still sounds good but it wasn’t close.

I can’t be dropping 20 g’s on a power amp so I’m hoping for a solution where it’s somewhat attainable.

Exactly. I am one of those folks that believes (strongly) that the most important link in the chain is the transducer. Put 80% of your funds there (if not more!). If ya don’t get the transducer right, nothing else matters. All that to say, you don’t have to spend so much on amplification and source to get incredible performance. Especially with the new breed of Class D (Purify, Hypex, etc) which offer outstanding performance for the dollar. So, if I do anything new, will likely be one of the new gen switching designs, likely Purify. But will first try the Simaudio and see how it goes. For the money, the Benchmark also looks very good.

As to the ATI vs the Simaudio, not a surprise at all to me that the Simaudio outperformed the ATI. Especially after i clearly heard the ATI run out of steam while driving the Salon 2s during my recent audition. And also my own personal experience with Simaudio. They are very high current amps that can handle difficult speaker impedances.

 

[MKR]

You know these type of songs are the ones that don’t sound great on the salon2. It’s sounds just ok.

This is actually a bothersome statement to me. Any well designed loudspeaker with low distortion and flat response should sound good with ANY type of content. If it does not, either you just don’t like that genre or it is a bad recording. I played plenty of rock and content with extreme dynamic swings during my audition of the Salon 2s and it was outstanding, they didn’t miss a beat.

 

[MKR]

They have a better chance of survival that way.

… let’s not go there please, not in this thread