Amazon selling fake cables?

[audiofilet]

The obvious difference between a TRS and TS cable:

Lately, I've been looking for a 2x 1/4" TRS - 2x RCA Cable

I could only find one cable specifically named 2x TRS - 2x RCA

It looks like this:

2 * 6,35mm 1/4 Zoll TRS Stereo Jack Stecker to 2 RCA Stecker Chinch Audio Kabel Splitter

In comparison, another cable advertised as TS, by a different manufacturer, looks exactly the same:

(It's Amazon.de bcause I'm German / "Männlich" = "male" / "Kablel" = "cable" / "1/4 Zoll" = "1/4 inch" )

2 x 6,3mm (1/4 Zoll) TS Männlich auf 2 Cinch Männlich Stereo Audio Adapter Kabel

Could it be that a Split 6.3mm simply misses the second ring for the sleeve, while still being balanced?

 

[puppet]

Those are not balanced interconnects.
What's the application?
Are you experiencing noise? If not, just use what you've found. If you are, consider an isolation transformer.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/492058-REG/Rolls_DB24_DB24_Stereo_Direct.html

 

[Vini darko]

Took a look on Amazon. Yeah there are no 2x trs - 2x rac. It's all ts - rca with some being mislabeled trs. Not Amazons fault exactly but a just reason to return a product.

 

[audiofilet]

Those are not balanced interconnects.
What's the application?
Are you experiencing noise? If not, just use what you've found. If you are, consider an isolation transformer.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/492058-REG/Rolls_DB24_DB24_Stereo_Direct.html

I would like to connect my interface with an amp, both supporting a balanced output.

The problem is, that I have not been able to find any 2x TRS to 2x RCA splitter cables with 2 black rings, as you would expect. They all come without the sleeve part.

This makes me think that those cables are in fact balanced, but simiply don't have the second black ring because there are two 1/4" cables instead of one.

Do you know of a cable like that with both 1/4" plugs displaying the proper TRS identifiers?

 

[Walter]

There are none that I am aware of, because RCA connections other than that weird one Khads uses are not balanced and TRS are--at least in most cases. A cable cannot convert a signal from unbalanced to balanced, whether that is TRS or XLR--it does not work that way. If you do have a Khadas with their balanced RCA jacks, that requires a special cable,

 

[Count Arthur]

I suspect that the sellers don't fully understand the distinction between TS, TRS and TRRS, whereby T = Tip, R = Ring and S = Sleeve.

You can get balanced to RCA cables, but at the RCA end, it's no longer balanced.

Is this what you're looking for?:

https://www.designacable.com/pseudo...-jack-lead-pair-van-damme-starquad-cable.html

 

[DSJR]

At least the supplier (designacable) can supply the outer screen connected at various ends by request.

 

[audiofilet]

Thank you all for the input!

Maybe I should explain exactly what I'm trying to do.

I would like to connect from my Steinberg UR22 mk2's 2x 1/4" Line Out to the Topping A50s' 2x RCA in.
I understand that the signal would no longer be balanced at the A50s' end, but through the amp's balanced 4.4mm headphone jack, the output voltage is doubled, which I'd like to make use of with my DT 990 600 Ohm.

 

[AnalogSteph]

If you need balanced interconnects, I would strongly suggest looking at a music retailer (e.g. Thomann) rather than Amazon. Unbalanced is kind of a toss-up I guess, but with Amazon being the huge marketplace that it is, there'll be a whole bunch of crap on there, too.

In this case, unbalanced RCA to 1/4" TS interconnects are all you need - I would prefer ones to be known of coaxial construction, which is what you want for unbalanced connections. As established in another thread, the Steinberg's outputs are merely impedance-balanced, so using them unbalanced is not a problem. (The "cold" side that would be shorted out is just a capacitor and resistor to ground to replicate the parts on the "hot" side.)

You are well aware that you would have to recable the DT990s for use with a balanced output (if they ship with the standard 1/4" TRS plug), right? From watching a few YT videos on recabling them, I'm almost certain that the stock cable is only a 3-conductor job, so cannot be used with a balanced output which obviously requires 4 (two individual pairs of wires to each driver).

 

[DVDdoug]

Could it be that a Split 6.3mm simply misses the second ring for the sleeve, while still being balanced?

No. A balanced connection is two signal wires/connections plus one ground.

I would like to connect my interface with an amp, both supporting a balanced output.

It's possible to make a balanced connection with 2 RCA connectors (4 for stereo) I've never seen that and I doubt you have that.

I think this is what you're asking for, but the TRS end is intended for a stereo headphone jack, not a balanced connection.

If you want to connect RCA (unbalanced) to TRS balanced the normal solution is to use a TS plug. The cable you found on Amazon should work or these are common.


P.S.
Your headphone amplifier has a balanced headphone output, not a balanced input.

 

[NTK]

The block diagram schematic from the UR22 mkII manual shows that the line outputs are single ended, not balanced (differential).

 

[GimeDsp]

Lot's of good info here but may be hard to understand.

RCA is a type of connector, in standard usage it is always unbalanced., and is functionally same as a TS cable/connector.

Many pro and prosumer gear that has TRS outputs are design to drive a "shorted" or unbalanced cable/load that is plugged in. To check this look at the owners manual.
https://download.steinberg.net/down.../UR22mkII_documentation/ur22mkII_en_om_a0.pdf
Page 6 states

7 [LINE OUTPUT 2/R 1/L] jacks For connecting to monitor speakers or external devices with line level signals. These jacks can be connected to phone-type (balanced/unbalanced).

So long story short, pun intended, lol, you can get a plain old TS-->RCA and it will work as designed.

 

[GimeDsp]

I understand that the signal would no longer be balanced at the A50s' end, but through the amp's balanced 4.4mm headphone jack, the output voltage is doubled, which I'd like to make use of with my DT 990 600 Ohm.

That's not how it works, the input on the a50s is always unbalanced and you have a choice to use either headphone output.

So to be clear, as designed the a50s receives only unbalanced RCA then it internally creates both a balanced and unbalanced output for headphones.
https://apos.audio/products/topping-a50s-headphone-amplifier

 

[AnalogSteph]

That's not how it works, the input on the a50s is always unbalanced and you have a choice to use either headphone output.

Ah, good catch - of course, @JohnYang1997 has even mentioned it here himself, I just forgot momentarily.

 

[audiofilet]

So to be clear, as designed the a50s receives only unbalanced RCA then it internally creates both a balanced and unbalanced output for headphones.

I was just raving about this in the other thread, but I'll say it again.
You guys are so incredibly welcoming and helpful here, it's truly amazing. No snobs, snide comments or sarcasm of any kind, despite your superior knowledge.

Thank you all for making newbies like me feel welcome and providing such detailed information.

@GimeDsp that's always been a little confusing to me. The way it was explained to me is that the A50s doesn't support a balanced signal, but only a higher voltage output, through that 4.4mm jack. Now you've cleared that up, thank you.

Just a little question, if you don't mind. If the balanced single enters the unbalanced RCA input of the A50, how can it then internally be rendered balanced once again?

So amps with an XLR in, or Optical in would be able to receive a balanced signal. But if "re-balancing" the signal internally isn't inferior in any way, why bother to include all these fancy inputs and not just stick with RCA always?

 

[garbulky]

What do the rings on the adapters do?

 

[GimeDsp]

I was just raving about this in the other thread, but I'll say it again.
You guys are so incredibly welcoming and helpful here, it's truly amazing. No snobs, snide comments or sarcasm of any kind, despite your superior knowledge.

Thank you all for making newbies like me feel welcome and providing such detailed information.

@GimeDsp that's always been a little confusing to me. The way it was explained to me is that the A50s doesn't support a balanced signal, but only a higher voltage output, through that 4.4mm jack. Now you've cleared that up, thank you.

Just a little question, if you don't mind. If the balanced single enters the unbalanced RCA input of the A50, how can it then internally be rendered balanced once again?

So amps with an XLR in, or Optical in would be able to receive a balanced signal. But if "re-balancing" the signal internally isn't inferior in any way, why bother to include all these fancy inputs and not just stick with RCA always?

your HP amp can only receiver RCA/unbalanced. I'm a pro audio guy so I'm not sure what benefit "balanced headphones" are or how they work.

Optical, coaxial, and any digital signal only uses data and not voltage, so their is no balanced/unbalanced.

Balanced is used to reduce noise, this is very important for long cable runs in Home theaters, churches, and anyway big sound systems are set up., It just so happens that along with better gear often being balanced, it also has better specs, but not always.

If done properly a signal can be balanced and unbalanced many times without issues, the whole point is to get a clean, noise free signal from device to device.

You'll have to ask a headphone person about balanced headphones.

 

[Vini darko]

Balanced headpone out isn't balanced because you'd get no sound. It's two bridged amplifiers. So you have two amplifiers per channel working together. That's how voltage gets doubled.

Balanced signal transmisson is what's used to get common mode rejection using differential amplification at the client input stage.

 

[audiofilet]

OK, so just to be sure. I will be fine with the 2x TS 1/4" to 2x RCA cable?

Steinberg Line Out (balanced) ----> 2x TS 1/4 (unbalanced) ------> 2x RCA in A50s (unbalanced) -------> A50s Headphone Out 4.4mm (balanced)

If I understood @GimeDsp correctly, the amp will internally render the signal balanced, regardless whether the input signal was balanced or not.

 

[GimeDsp]

OK, so just to be sure. I will be fine with the 2x TS 1/4" to 2x RCA cable?

Steinberg Line Out (balanced) ----> 2x TS 1/4 (unbalanced) ------> 2x RCA in A50s (unbalanced) -------> A50s Headphone Out 4.4mm (balanced)

If I understood @GimeDsp correctly, the amp will internally render the signal balanced, regardless whether the input signal was balanced or not.

yeah, just get the regular TS-->RCA cable.
BUT, I beleive you need special headphones to use the "balanced" output.