• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Skw rca cables terrible sound?!

Skipping the German posts for the moment.
With line level analog RCA unbalanced interconnects only. As phono cartridge to pre-amp cables, video cables and digital audio cables have other requirements.
The differences in RCA analog interconnects will only be in the noise and interference areas. There will be no differences in distortion, level or audio frequency response (extreme length cables excepted).
 
Easy Cable Test:

Put the old cable on (let's say) the left channel, and new cable on right.

Listen to music you know well.
 
Tried DeepL on my post for the lulz. The result is factually accurate but defaults to being very formal (being able to switch would require paying for Pro, fair enough).
You refer to diffrent video cables i should try to use instead. At the same time your questioning if my devices are compatible with that sort cabeling. I just want to learn.
The latter part must have been some sort of misunderstanding. It was not a question of compatibility, but rather interaction of electrical parameters of cable and output.

At audio frequencies, you pretty much only care about 2 or 3 electrical parameters in an (unbalanced) interconnect cable: (*)
* lumped capacitance, i.e. specified cable unit capacitance (in pF/m or pf/ft) times cable length
* shield resistance and shield coverage
* and whether the dielectric is prone to triboelectricity perhaps.
Signal conductor resistance is generally negligible, even when compared just to typical source output impedance.

The sum of cable capacitance and input capacitance forms an R(L)C lowpass with source output impedance.

The best kind of cable for unbalanced interconnects is coax, which comes in a number of standard specifications. It tends to have the lowest unit capacitance, only 67 pF/m for RG-59 (the higher characteristic impedance, the better, but 93 ohm coax like RG-62 is bit exotic, so the common 75 ohm types are a good compromise). (With twisted pair you are likely to see more like 150 pF/m.) Being useful for RF up to hundreds of MHz, it also tends to have good shield coverage and low shield resistance. If you've ever hooked up a satellite dish before, you may have worked with RG-6, but at 8.5 mm OD that's a bit too thicc for RCA connectors.

Now nominal output impedance for the CX-2 pre-outs is 47 ohms. Input impedance for the MX-2 is 20 kOhms || 220 pF. For our lowpass R = 47 ohms || 20 kOhms (which is approximately 47 ohms), and C = 220 pF + cable capacitance.

So let's assume we have a somewhat lengthy cable with a total capacitance of 600 pF.
That would result in a -3 dB corner frequency of
f3 = 1/(2πRC) ~= 4.1 MHz.

The story for the Gustard R26 with its 100 ohm output impedance is similar, giving ~2 MHz.

As you may be able to tell, neither is even close to the audible range. (Things would get a bit more spicy with a tuner, where 3 kOhms is not uncommon. That's just 100 kHz with 500 pF total then. And the real fun starts when your source is majorly inductive, like an MM phono cartridge. You have to pick your preamp and cable wisely if you want a flat response.)

*) Note that additional criteria apply to microphone cables, like capacitance remaining stable even during movement. I have some here that are utterly useless with phantom power turned on, generating rustling noises of their own - bad cable stock, apparently.
 
AnalogSteph gave a good overview of the properties. In the case from Knobstler only true electrical measurements can give a clear view whether there is a degradation of high frequencies. All other is speculation. If there is a degradation then the most obvious cause is a too high capacitance of the new RCA cables. If possible a capacitance measurement of these cables old/new could help. One remark to output impedance of the equipment used. Since output impedance is often measured at 1 kHz the impedance could be different at say 10 kHz. Depends on the output circuit.
 
Last edited:
There will be no degradation of any kind. Not in distortion (at least not way below -140dB) nor in BW nor in phase. Signal fidelity will be the same.

The only way for Knobstler is to let him do blind testing with statistical relevance and that might convince him about the difference between the 2 cables.

Alas, the bit about hearing differences between silver and copper headphone cables will be harder to do blind and depending on the headphone, amp and connectors used there might actually be a difference that could even be audible. This, however, is not related to copper versus silver wire used but other practical and/or psychological phenomena.
 
There will be no degradation of any kind. Not in distortion (at least not way below -140dB) nor in BW nor in phase. Signal fidelity will be the same.

The only way for Knobstler is to let him do blind testing with statistical relevance and that might convince him about the difference between the 2 cables.

Alas, the bit about hearing differences between silver and copper headphone cables will be harder to do blind and depending on the headphone, amp and connectors used there might actually be a difference that could even be audible. This, however, is not related to copper versus silver wire used but other practical and/or psychological phenomena.
How can you know without measurments?
 
Is it possible that a very poor quality connection within the cables could increase their resistance massively?
 
Is it possible that a very poor quality connection within the cables could increase their resistance massively?
Yes, but with new and expensive cables ?
On both channels with the same amount of resistance increase at the same time is extremely unlikely to happen.

How can you know without measurements?
Blind testing, level matched with statistical relevance is all one needs.
The level matched part is easy so blind testing with enough attempts (15 to 20 or so) to spot 'chance' will be more than sufficient for the OP to satisfy the real curious mind.
This involves someone else to randomly switch the cables (or not) while not giving away any clues (sound of a switch or interruption of music or not) which is the really difficult and challenging part. Then there is the statistical math to be done.

This does not require any measuring. Just 2 persons, some logging of both persons and a lot of time.

Of course just switching 5x and getting 3 or 4 right will be enough for most audiophools to show be able to tell themselves and others they heard differences in a blind test.
While operating a switch themselves and a blindfold or eyes closed they could even get 100% score with 20 attempts .... but that would be cheating.
 
Yes, but with new and expensive cables ?
On both channels with the same amount of resistance increase at the same time is extremely unlikely to happen.


Blind testing, level matched with statistical relevance is all one needs.
The level matched part is easy so blind testing with enough attempts (15 to 20 or so) to spot 'chance' will be more than sufficient for the OP to satisfy the real curious mind.
This involves someone else to randomly switch the cables (or not) while not giving away any clues (sound of a switch or interruption of music or not) which is the really difficult and challenging part. Then there is the statistical math to be done.

This does not require any measuring. Just 2 persons, some logging of both persons and a lot of time.

Of course just switching 5x and getting 3 or 4 right will be enough for most audiophools to show be able to tell themselves and others they heard differences in a blind test.
While operating a switch themselves and a blindfold or eyes closed they could even get 100% score with 20 attempts .... but that would be cheating.
Here in the case of connecion cables between electronic devices almost all can be measured and differences recognized. I thought that especially the ASR forum relies on measurments not on subjective impressions. Even a double blind test does not tell a truth beside that a majority of participants have the similar taste.
 
That would be the case if one wants to prove something to the masses with a scientific rigor.

In this particular case the factor that led to the OP is with a near 100% certainty explained by the used test method.
Improve the test method and with a high degree of certainty the original claim (of obvious audible differences) will be rectified/retracted.
When not, and OP manages to still hear obvious differences, 3 next options exist.

A: record the output (not really easy to do) of both cable and submit the recordings for scrutiny. Small differences will be found due to limitations of this method.
B: measure the cables using R/C meter. Differences will be found with 100% certainty in conductance, capacitance and inductance and upper bandwidth (MHz range).
C: send the cables to Amir. We all know what will happen next. No differences will be found on the AP (outside of measurement error and possibly current injection)

In this particular thread it is important to encourage OP to test again with a bit more scientific rigor instead of pointing out he did not really hear it (he did) and its all in his head.
That last part is very likely the case but the only real way forward is to suggest a better test method, within OP's abilities and possibilities and educate how to do that.
Just my opinion of course.
Even when OP would send the cables to Amir and they were measured and the conclusion would be (and it will with high probability) no audible difference it would only flame the war, OP would wonder why he can still clearly hear it when he got them back after many months.

Even a double blind test does not tell a truth beside that a majority of participants have the similar taste

A single blind test with statistical rigor, when it comes to cable which cannot possibly have a tonal character) is not about preference of audience at all. It is about differences in this particular case which either are there and audible or are there (which they technically will) but are not audible.
 
Last edited:
When promoting electrical measurements I did not mean just only the cables should be measured, although different capacitance and serial resistance can give a hint for reduced high frequencies. By measurement I mean measure the complete system in action, not only one component. And I never stated that Knobstler did not hear a difference between the system with and without exchanged cables.
 
Yes, but with new and expensive cables ?
On both channels with the same amount of resistance increase at the same time is extremely unlikely to happen.
I don't think the price is relevant, I am sure many cables are priced at ridiculous mark-ups due to the 'Expensive is better' mindset of the typical purchaser. Construction of both could still be shoddy. As with any cable the vendors are selling the sizzle not the steak.
 
Yep ... but the chance of 2 not so expensive (€ 45,-) 1m cables having an unusual high resistance in both cables (other than by design by adding resistors which would be silly) is extremely low. I don't see that being an issue in OP's case as it is just a thick cable with nice looks and locking connectors and not some uber expensive audiophool monstrosity intended to empty wallets of the rich.
Construction could be shoddy but i don't think that will be the case here.

An unusual high capacitance is not very likely with these 1M cables either.

There can only be one logical explanation for the findings which is the test method and not the cables.
So suggesting a better and do-able test method addresses the issue at hand at the core, and this is not the cable itself.

Personally I would never use heavy cables/connectors and certainly not those locking ones on any of my gear.
The chances of destroying the RCA sockets on the gear is considerably higher than with 'regular' quality cables.
When RCA connectors are a bit loose I would prefer to bend the outer contacts a little (not possible with most expensive and machined connectors).
 
Last edited:
Thank you all for your explenations. I untightend the screw Locke just a Bit on each one and Boom something positive Kappen. Dynamisch are back Bad and a better overal sound not congested mid rangie as before
 
What happens if you tighten it again while listening.
 
When something happens to the sound while tightening return the cables and get a refund.
There absolutely should not be any audible differences bewteen cables. When there is a very obvious one they are broken.
 
Thank you all for your explenations. I untightend the screw Locke just a Bit on each one and Boom something positive Kappen. Dynamisch are back Bad and a better overal sound not congested mid rangie as before

If you look at the JBL SA600 Vintage review, you will see that the ground originally was disconnected which resulted in way worse measurements and tightening a screw fixed things.

This suggests that the cable is broken and unscrewing the screw lock completed the circuit somehow (I.e. a bad solder connection)
 
Back
Top Bottom