1 foot solid silver conductor interconnect vs. 0.5 foot Mogami W2964 interconnect

[Groove01]

As @Speedskater said, the idea is that the signal mostly travels in the silver plating at such higher frequencies. The cables I used targeted 100+ GHz, not THz, however, and skin depth in either material was usually more than the plating. There are more esoteric benefits to silver over copper but the 5% or so reduced loss actually matters for some RF systems. In the THz region dispersion in the conductors starts to become a thing. Fun stuff, but I did not work up there much, mostly "baseband" below 50 GHz (Ka band and down; V/W+ band stuff I worked with just now and then).


Yah, RG6 is used almost exclusively for consumer installations. A few use RG11 for longer runs, and our cable drop is very long so they used semirigid from pole to house (after running RG11 first and discovering loss was too great). Satellites themselves did not use it (silver) more for reliability than anything else IME.

For audio is all about marketing and money IME/IMO.

In my early audiophile days (25 + years ago) one of my local shops gave me a booklet from AQ talking about Skin Effect and various geometries, etc. Is skin effect a real thing, as it relates to our home applications in HiFi?

I actually still have booklet - lol.

 

[Beave]

In my early audiophile days (25 + years ago) one of my local shops gave me a booklet from AQ talking about Skin Effect and various geometries, etc. Is skin effect a real thing, as it relates to our home applications in HiFi?

I actually still have booklet - lol.

Skin effect is a real thing. But it only matters at frequencies far, far above the audio range.

 

[Chrispy]

Why would Hosa, who markets to professionals, make this up?

This is your last relevant post on the subject? You just like marketing material?

 

[olds1959special]

This is your last relevant post on the subject? You just like marketing material?

I just like silver cables. I don't need to understand why, exactly.

 

[Chrispy]

I just like silver cables. I don't need to understand why, exactly.

So no logical reason except you like shiny things or something? Pretty weird.

 

[olds1959special]

So no logical reason except you like shiny things or something? Pretty weird.

No, the reason is they sound good when used to plug my digital source into a tube amp.

 

[Chrispy]

No, the reason is they sound good when used to plug my digital source into a tube amp.

LOL sure it does. Delusion can be subjectively important I suppose

 

[kchap]

Which one should result in less signal degradation?

As already discussed it's a waste of money. If you already own silver cables, keep them. With the exponential growth in solar panels they could be worth a lot more on the scrap metal market in the future

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Construction has a bigger impact than metallurgy.

 

[DonH56]

In my early audiophile days (25 + years ago) one of my local shops gave me a booklet from AQ talking about Skin Effect and various geometries, etc. Is skin effect a real thing, as it relates to our home applications in HiFi?

I actually still have booklet - lol.

Yes, skin effect is very real, but it is simply not an issue at audio frequencies. For various reasons (eddy currents, molecular discontinuities, various field physics etc.) as frequency goes up current flow migrates towards the surface of the conductors, so less of the cross-sectional area (interior) of a conductor is used. This is an issue for RF systems operating near 1 GHz and beyond but is insignificant for audio. One of many real effects that audio marketing takes out of context and misapplies to sell a solution to a problem that does not exist for audio.

Article here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cle-does-audio-cable-skin-effect-matter.7157/

HTH - Don

 

[Angsty]

Most audio cables are 75-ohm impedance, but as others have said that only matters for RF frequencies. At audio all that matters is the bulk resistance and capacitance unless you have hundreds or thousands of feet of it between components. It is cheaper for companies to stock just one cable for audio and video, and most video systems are 75-ohm impedance, so companies do a bulk buy of 75-ohm cable and use it for audio and video cables.

W2964 uses a larger center conductor than some other miniature cables so lower loss, again only an issue for RF (video) or extremely long runs. https://mogamicable.com/category/bulk/video/subminiature_miniature/

Silver is about 20x the price of copper and about 5% more conductive; note copper is the second most-conductive metal in general use (after silver) and that 5% is akin to the germ on the flea on the dog. For example, 100 feet of W2964 would be about 5.5 ohms compared to 5.225 ohms if it was solid silver, and for the same cable construction the capacitance would be the same for both cables. For one foot, the difference is 0.055 ohms Cu compared to 0.05225 ohms Ag.

So for practical purposes the answer is "neither one would cause degradation at audio frequencies".

Shielded coax is also a preferred geometry for unbalanced, RCA terminated cables. Blue Jeans Cable explains why in their design notes.

“When we entered the cable business, the best cables we could find for unbalanced audio use were cables which had actually been designed and built for video. Why? Well, that's because video cables are coaxial, which is the right geometry for an unbalanced audio cable; because video cables are typically well shielded; and because video cables, being designed to a 75 ohm characteristic impedance, are relatively low in capacitance, ranging from about 16 pF/ft for an HDPE-foamed dielectric precision video cable (e.g. Belden 1694A) up to about 21 pF/ft for a solid PE dielectric cable (e.g. Belden 8281 or Canare LV-77S).”

LC-1 Audio Cable Design Notes -- Blue Jeans Cable

 

[Speedskater]

Shielded coax is also a preferred geometry for unbalanced, RCA terminated cables. Blue Jeans Cable explains why in their design notes.

“When we entered the cable business, the best cables we could find for unbalanced audio use were cables which had actually been designed and built for video. Why? Well, that's because video cables are coaxial, which is the right geometry for an unbalanced audio cable; because video cables are typically well shielded; and because video cables, being designed to a 75 ohm characteristic impedance, are relatively low in capacitance, ranging from about 16 pF/ft for an HDPE-foamed dielectric precision video cable (e.g. Belden 1694A) up to about 21 pF/ft for a solid PE dielectric cable (e.g. Belden 8281 or Canare LV-77S).”

LC-1 Audio Cable Design Notes -- Blue Jeans Cable

Yep, for the best RCA analog interconnects, use a coax cable with a heavy braided shield. Coax cables with a foil shield (and maybe a light braid) are best at cable TV frequencies.

 

[Mnyb]

The relevant factors for cables in audio frequencies are basically .

LCR and geometry , inductance capacitance and resistance . Note the absence of anything about the specific material or alloy that has these LCR properties.

Which one most important varies low R is very important for loudspeaker cables , but it can fixed with thick enough gauge. It could be argued that low L is also beneficial but marginal.

Signal cables R is not particularly important low C and low L is good .
( when I was hooked to pseudoscience cables in the past I had a pair of carbon fibre cables from van den hul , a very bad conductor they worked anyway )

For video and coax digital characteristics impedance ( transmission line theory ) of 75ohm is a factor, but these are above audio frequencies.

For resilience to noise and disturbances good shielding can be a factor or for example star quad geometry if the cable is for example a long balanced microphone cable .

 

[Angsty]

For resilience to noise and disturbances good shielding can be a factor or for example star quad geometry if the cable is a long microphone cable

Star quad geometry is relevant for balanced connections, but not for unbalanced connections.

 

[Mnyb]

Star quad geometry is relevant for balanced connections, but not for unbalanced connections.

That’s true we will edit/add

 

[Groove01]

Yes, skin effect is very real, but it is simply not an issue at audio frequencies. For various reasons (eddy currents, molecular discontinuities, various field physics etc.) as frequency goes up current flow migrates towards the surface of the conductors, so less of the cross-sectional area (interior) of a conductor is used. This is an issue for RF systems operating near 1 GHz and beyond but is insignificant for audio. One of many real effects that audio marketing takes out of context and misapplies to sell a solution to a problem that does not exist for audio.

Article here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cle-does-audio-cable-skin-effect-matter.7157/

HTH - Don

Thanks - super helpful and informative!!

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

No, I wouldn't bother. I just know what my senses tell me.

The problem is you are using your senses (plural) instead of the one sense you want to use alone.

 

[Groove01]

Yes, skin effect is very real, but it is simply not an issue at audio frequencies. For various reasons (eddy currents, molecular discontinuities, various field physics etc.) as frequency goes up current flow migrates towards the surface of the conductors, so less of the cross-sectional area (interior) of a conductor is used. This is an issue for RF systems operating near 1 GHz and beyond but is insignificant for audio. One of many real effects that audio marketing takes out of context and misapplies to sell a solution to a problem that does not exist for audio.

Article here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...cle-does-audio-cable-skin-effect-matter.7157/

HTH - Don

OK - as I’m reading that linked thread I have sooo many more questions now - lol.

It’s a super interesting read!!

 

[Angsty]

I once purchased these silver plated BJC cables because they were actually cheaper than the 100% copper alternative.

I soon found out why they were cheaper - they were stiff as f**k and did not sound any different from my other BJC cables.

For me, silver is simply a marketing gimmick not a substantive differentiator in audio use.

Amazon.com

 

[Mnyb]

I’ve had some horrible stiff silver XLR cables from Goertz ( alpha core ) no shield just stiff ribbons .

They had peculiar speaker cables who was flat copper ribbons very close together so the cable could be a half inch wide but very flat with +/- on top of each other low R and very low L but capacitance probably high .
Theoretically OK but less stable amps can blow up with to high capacitive load

So they had an idea for their loudspeaker cable , but thier rca and xlr cables they just slapped together off something similar because magic

Thye ofcourse had ultra expensive pure silver loudspeaker cables to

To terminate the ribbons they ha special rhodium plated banan plugs that fitted the ribbons with screws , very haphazard termination that probably negated the whole ordeal

Complete bullshit all of it .