Technics SL 1210GR2 Turntable

[Down South]

In 1999 I bought a s/hand Technics SL120 for my wife,we each had our own audio system because we had totally different music. I wanted to see how different a d/d deck was from belt drive. At that time I was using the original crap Rega 2 and Rega 3 .120 unlike the 1200 was sold without an arm. The retired man I bought it from lived just few miles from SME in Steyning, Sussex, England. He got SME to fit a 3009 with detachable h/shell. I bought the combo for £100.

At that time I was working self employed in construction and I was rained off with no inside work so got the deck home, put up a wall shelf and set up the deck. Immediately I noticed something was wrong - there was no noise! That convinced me to think seriously about getting a d/d deck. At that time I belonged to an audio forum that had a member who had been professionally involved in the audio world.

He upset the Garrard idler crowd by rec. a whole bunch of Japanese d/d superdecks among them the Kenwood KD/KP 990 (there are 2 identical decks with a different number). When these Japanese superdecks appeared they were mercilessly attacked especially by the British and American audio press there were nasty racist elements to most of the articles attacking these decks. The only people who embraced these d/d decks were the Germans who have always appreciated quality engineering, that's why German Ebay was the best place to buy these 1970/80 decks.

I have 2 Kenwood decks which have developed problems. I will be really ~#ssed off if I can't fix them. Check out the specs for the Kenwood 990s and you will see that they surpass the specs of present day over priced eye candy decks. The bearing system makes Idlers and belt drives look like something from cave living compared to spacemen. The arm is a joy to set up with sealed for life bearings and has solid silver arm wiring and end of side arm lift and motor stop. There is no noise - wow and flutter - what's that? The heavy mat doesn't need to be replaced with any expensive current flavour of the day.

ampr1 states reality - these days quality production can be made anywhere - given a choice of flying in a Boeing or an Airbus - I'll take the Airbus every time.

 

[Golf]

After I bought my Sony PS-X60 some 45 years ago I never seriously considered buying a Technics turntable. Today, the only thing not still working perfectly with the Sony is the tonearm automatic. Something I can surely live with.

 

[anmpr1]

A little slumming the Web reveals a notice from Panasonic, evidently sent to dealers. The memo indicates that Panasonic owns the factory in Malaysia where Technics are made, so for those 'worried' that the decks are 'outsourced', this is evidently not the case.

So the question then, at least for the person who suggested that he was sold something 'inferior' because it was not made in Panasonic's Japan factory: What is the difference between a Panasonic factory in Japan and one in Malaysia? The only thing it could come down to would be the individual workers, and probably the food they eat at lunch break.

My bet would be that the machines used to fabricate the products are the same, except newer. Again, I suspect the poster who was worried about 'bait and switch' was just being foolish--hearing the word 'Malaysia' and thinking that was not as prestigious as the word 'Japan'.

_______________________________________________________

Greetings Technics Dealers,

I’d like to express our appreciation for your strong support and contribution to the continuing sales of Technics products.

This notice is to inform you that Panasonic has decided to relocate the production of Technics products currently manufactured in Utsunomiya, Japan, to our Malaysia production facilities effective April 1, 2021. This move will strengthen our logistics management by concentrating all our production resources to one facility while strengthening our competitive edge. The models involved are as follows: SL-1200GR/SL-1210GR/SL-1200G/SP-10R/SL-1000R

This change will enhance our Technics production and engineering. This process incorporates the most up-to-date technology standards and state-of-the-art mechanical manufacturing, which will ensure that the renowned Technics attention to detail will remain unchanged resulting in product quality that satisfies our most discriminating critics. As you may recall, our Malaysia factory has been manufacturing other fine products like the SC-C70MK2/SC-C30/SC-C50/SL-1200MK7/SL-1500C/SU-G700/SL-G700 and the new SU-R1000.

While we have paid due diligence to deliver as much product as possible from the Utsunomiya factory, the earliest arrivals from the new Malaysia factory will likely be end of May to mid-June. Please bear with us through the transition. The sales team will continue to provide details on your existing order fulfillment as they are informed.

 

[Baudrillard_J]

My bet would be that the machines used to fabricate the products are the same, except newer. Again, I suspect the poster who was worried about 'bait and switch' was just being foolish--hearing the word 'Malaysia' and thinking that was not as prestigious as the word 'Japan'.

Foolish is anyone who would dare put in writing the claim that Malaysian manufacturing is better than Japanese. In any sector. The scientific research is there, anyone can search for a comparison between Japanese and Malaysian manufacturing and read the literature.

 

[anmpr1]

Foolish is anyone who would dare put in writing the claim that Malaysian manufacturing is better than Japanese. In any sector. The scientific research is there, anyone can search for a comparison between Japanese and Malaysian manufacturing and read the literature.

Look, I don't mind being called a fool. I've been called worse. But tell us, since you have the 'scientific' facts and figures, and know the Lit, exactly how is the Panasonic factory in Malaysia substandard compared to the factory in Utsunomiya? And how does that show up in the finished product?

Once you tell us (and me specifically) how they differ, how the machines in Japan are better than the ones they shipped to their Malaysian factory, then at least I'll know for sure, and won't have to play the fool anymore.

 

[Baudrillard_J]

So pretty much you want me to quote here trade secrets that only the Panasonic C suite is made aware of. Internal knowledge of manufacturing differences between plants that only Panasonic could posses. I will tell you what. You go ahead and claim that Malaysia has better manufacturing than Japan, that is you prerogative. I cannot possibly follow you down that mental path but I wish you good luck.

Now, my original post talked about many things, a small part of which was the introductory comment on the transfer of manufacturing. I am left to wonder why from all the rest that was discussed you chose to focus on the most inconsequential one.

 

[Down South]

This is harking back to the vitriolic attack in the US and UK audio press when the Japanese d/d superdecks first appeared in the 70s. It was blatantly racist then. Manufacturing now is all about robotics - do you really think that SMD components are soldered by human hands? It really doesn't matter where production occurs anymore since production is controlled by computer programmes. Virtually all speakers are produced in China. Why is so much manufacturing produced in Asia, blame bosses who where/are greedy for higher profits and channel them to tax havens. A lot of audio products still made in the West are great designs, shame about the quality control issue.

 

[Mikig]

my 1210...always ready, for years.

I think these Technics turntables are one of the best Hi-Fi products ever built. Very easy to use, they work great, they are impeccably built.

 

[EJ3]

This is harking back to the vitriolic attack in the US and UK audio press when the Japanese d/d superdecks first appeared in the 70s. It was blatantly racist then. Manufacturing now is all about robotics - do you really think that SMD components are soldered by human hands? It really doesn't matter where production occurs anymore since production is controlled by computer programmes. Virtually all speakers are produced in China. Why is so much manufacturing produced in Asia, blame bosses who where/are greedy for higher profits and channel them to tax havens. A lot of audio products still made in the West are great designs, shame about the quality control issue.

Until I came to this site, I had never heard of anyone thinking about that any manufacturing from anywhere was complaining about the others success by being racist.
Either there was a certain quality or their wasn't.
NAD 2200's are an example: the ones manufactured in Japan are the most likely to be able to be restored as the actual internal internal capacitors, resistors, diodes, transistors where of better quality (even though they met spec originally), as they broke down they were less likely to destroy the circuit boards (by leakage), and other components needed to restore one.
Ones that were manufactured in Korea are more likely to have somewhat worse long term results & it is more difficult to find one that is restorable.
And the ones that were manufactured in China are even less likely to be able to be restored than the Korean ones.
They all met the original spec when they were manufactured. But the internal components were of lesser long term resilience as you stepped form one factory in one country to another factory in another country.
Just the same as some German cars produced in the USA early on where not of the same quality as German cars made in the USA.
I can personally vouch that that (was the case) with the early Mercedes Sprinter Vans that were manufactured in the USA, as I was a Quality Assurance technician for Mercedes then. The ones made in Germany were of better quality.
I had, in the 1980's been a Quality Assurance technician for Porsche.
I see nothing racist about quality.
Now, I am sure that some companies, trying to save their own butt from something produced somewhere else that was of = or greater quality at a lower price would cry that "those things are junk". But that wasn't racist, that was trying to save their company when they couldn't meet or exceed the the quality for the price of what the others were producing.
And bad marketing to boot, making them subject to some calling them racist.
Maybe there were some that were. But I never encountered them in this industry.
I want to add that, as a 14 year old in 1971 I got heavily involved in our Audio Video Club at high school (unincorporated James Island, SC, USA), and then 2 local Charleston Audio Clubs *and saw my first Technics gear in use at a local radio station. And NAD was up & coming.,
Nothing but praise for these things.

 

[mike70]

what's happened with this thread?

 

[EJ3]

We actually had a pretty good (15 pages thread going.

What happened is that some goofball is trying to make this site racist, which has no place here where we deal with things from everywhere.

The only thing that truly matters here is: does it meet specs that make it innocuous of coloration to our ears.

Where it's from, quality of build, longevity and what it looks like are not even close to the main focus here.

Although some subjective things (touch, feel of controls, ease of setting up, ease of operation, looks are spoken about), they are also not the primary focus here.

 

[Down South]

We actually had a pretty good (15 pages thread going.

What happened is that some goofball is trying to make this site racist, which has no place here where we deal with things from everywhere.

The only thing that truly matters here is: does it meet specs that make it innocuous of coloration to our ears.

Where it's from, quality of build, longevity and what it looks like are not even close to the main focus here.

Although some subjective things (touch, feel of controls, ease of setting up, ease of operation, looks are spoken about), they are also not the primary focus here.

No I'm not trying to make this site racist - what I said about the western reaction to the Japanese d/d decks is factual history. Also make your reply to those who claim that Malaysia and other Asian countries are making sub standard products that once were produced in Japan.
Anyone who worked in British engineering in the 60s/70s with exceptions could confirm that quality control was an issue compared to a lot of German engineering, not that some products were not the usual quality but they were the exception.

anmpr1 - never said that Malaysian production was better than Japanese. Baudrillard_J misquoted him, why we don't know.

Until I can fix my Kenwood KD990 decks I will have to unpack the Technics SL120. I have an NOS Pickering XLZ 7500S which is going to work better on the SME arm than the Kenwood arm. That Kenwood series was built on an aluminium spider, remove the plinth and you've got 3 more places to fit other arms. If only I'd known that Kenwood were going to scrap the whole line I wonder how much I could have bought it for with the right to continue production, since like a lot of companies worldwide had taken a position that LPs were dead as the dodo. If the Pickering turns out to be as good as many say, I wonder if Pickering and Stanton would do a cost analysis to see if it was worth them resurrecting their better models.

 

[Baudrillard_J]

There is nothing racist in comparing the industrial performance and manufacturing quality and practices as the aggregate result of all underlying forces that operate and converge to produce the industrial output within a defined manufacturing entity. It is customary to define these entities at the level of the nation-state. That is how the World Bank produces statistics and that is the standard procedure of comparing among countries.

Now, I set forth the hypothesis that manufacturing quality in Japan is superior to that of Malaysia.

1) Productivity can be regarded a proxy of manufacturing quality:

https://www.igbr.org/wp-content/uploads/articles/GJAF_Vol_1_No_2_2017-pgs-10-24.pdf

2) And "Gross value added by manufacturing" can be regarded a proxy for productivity:
https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/marvin.lieberman/docs/Lieberman_POSCO.pdf (pg. 7 "...labor productivity (measured as value added per worker hour")

3) If we compare at the aggregate level the "Gross value added by manufacturing per capita" of Japan and Malaysia (normalized per capita):
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Japan/Malaysia/Industry

We find that Japan is ranked 8th and Malaysia 41st.

Can we please go back to the discussion about the SL-1200GR/G now?

 

[EJ3]

No I'm not trying to make this site racist - what I said about the western reaction to the Japanese d/d decks is factual history. Also make your reply to those who claim that Malaysia and other Asian countries are making sub standard products that once were produced in Japan.
Anyone who worked in British engineering in the 60s/70s with exceptions could confirm that quality control was an issue compared to a lot of German engineering, not that some products were not the usual quality but they were the exception.

anmpr1 - never said that Malaysian production was better than Japanese. Baudrillard_J misquoted him, why we don't know.

Until I can fix my Kenwood KD990 decks I will have to unpack the Technics SL120. I have an NOS Pickering XLZ 7500S which is going to work better on the SME arm than the Kenwood arm. That Kenwood series was built on an aluminium spider, remove the plinth and you've got 3 more places to fit other arms. If only I'd known that Kenwood were going to scrap the whole line I wonder how much I could have bought it for with the right to continue production, since like a lot of companies worldwide had taken a position that LPs were dead as the dodo. If the Pickering turns out to be as good as many say, I wonder if Pickering and Stanton would do a cost analysis to see if it was worth them resurrecting their better models.

Well, that is what it seemed like.
And, apparently I was not the only one that thought that.
In the 70's & 80's I was going to places with names like "British American Sound" not because the owner was racist but because he was a British person that immigrated to America. (&, sure enough the majority of what he offered was higher end British gear, like Linn.
Read Brother's stereo carried ADVENT, Magnapan's, and some various higher end stuff.
They introduced NAD, TECHNICS & OTHER higher end gear made outside of the USA.
I have never once heard about your "factual history" about direct drive decks here in Charleston, South Carolina (where the not so Civil War began).
Maybe we here are not as racist as some think.
That doesn't mean that I think that it wasn't happening in places like Atlanta & other larger cities.
But we had a pretty thriving Audio Community here then & I was heavily involved (even as a Radio Station operator & DJ in Charleston, SC [1975 & Beyond]).
In the late 70's in New Orleans, then in Washington DC (when Howard Stern was the big Rukus) and later back in the Charleston, SC area.
& I have never heard of this, as I said, until I came on this site.
I'm sorry that this was taken wrong.

Yes, let's please get back to the actual subject of this thread:
the SL-1200GR/G, which, to me, anyway, is most interesting.
Also, the KD990's deserve their own thread.

 

[Bob from Florida]

what's happened with this thread?

It went out in left field a long time ago. I started it based on claims by Technics of an improved motor controller.
As far as to where the product is manufactured, it really does not matter anymore. As long as the OEM has adequate quality control the product will be identical regardless of the "where". As individuals, we may have personal reasons as to the "where" and make our purchase decisions accordingly.

About 2 years ago, we purchased a BougeRV 30 quart electric cooler for camping. It was much cheaper than Dometic - <$300 with cover. Three months ago the compressor crapped out, warranty was 3 years. I really did not expect the company to do much - support being in China - but I emailed them anyway. We went back and forth over a 2 week period - I sent pictures they requested. They sent a new unit and did not want the old one back - it went to local electronics recycling. Excellent customer service!

 

[copperblue]

Coincidentally, Stereophile have just reviewed the 1200GR2 (published today, 21st March 2024). They liked it and had praise for the build quality and finish.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/technics-grand-class-sl-12001210gr2-record-player

 

[Balle Clorin]

To bad you have to go to Fremer and Tracking Angle to find the wow&flutter measurememts…

 

[EJ3]

To bad you have to go to Fremer and Tracking Angle to find the wow&flutter measurememts…

You could have been extra nice and put them here for us.

 

[Bob from Florida]

You could have been extra nice and put them here for us.

I can paraphrase the review for you. Excellent measurements, good sound, and unfortunately the plinth is microphonic. According to Fremer.

 

[EJ3]

I can paraphrase the review for you. Excellent measurements, good sound, and unfortunately the plinth is microphonic. According to Fremer.

Thank you for the summary.
I have a Technics SL-M3 and am not a Fremer fan. Usually, if I read anything by him or about him, it is accidental
I was hoping to get the wow & flutter spec (or measurements) without paying Fremer's site a visit.
As everything else that I was interested in was in the Stereo Review article.
Just so (you, in case you did not) & others know the specs on the unusual SL-M3, I'll post them here:

Technics SL-M3​

Quartz Controlled Direct-Drive Fully-Automatic Turntable System (1984-1988)

with linear tracking tonearm

Specifications​

Type: fully automatic

Drive method: direct drive

Motor: brushless DC motor

Drive control method: quartz phase locked control

Platter: 325mm, 2.5kg, aluminum die-cast

Pitch control: +-6% range

Speeds: 33 and 45rpm

Wow and flutter: 0.022% WRMS

Rumble: -82dB

Tonearm: dynamically-balanced linear tracking

Effective length: 238mm

Effective mass: 13g (including cartridge)

Cartridge: moving magnet

Replacement stylus: EPS-33ES

Dimensions: 526 x 205 x 425mm

Weight: 15kg