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Hivi 3.1A DIY Speaker With Sehlin Mod Review

GGroch

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If your experience is like mine and everybody else, the amazon listing is just wrong. It does not come with the mod components.
An earlier post here says you are correct, the heading states: "Additions and Changes Make These Speakers Sound Its Best". They meant to say "Here are possible changes you can make.."

NOTE: in terms of improving the bass. The Skunkie Design YouTube channel built both the 2.2a and 3.1 and felt the 2.2a had far better bass. She changed the woofer in her 3.1 to another HiVi woofer and says it is now much improved. This is the woofer she used. It appears to be almost identical to the woofer in the 2.2a, except with a different cone material. Note, Stephe is not a speaker expert and just did a straight swap. It sounded better to her, and it does fit.
 

ROOSKIE

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An earlier post here says you are correct, the heading states: "Additions and Changes Make These Speakers Sound Its Best". They meant to say "Here are possible changes you can make.."

NOTE: in terms of improving the bass. The Skunkie Design YouTube channel built both the 2.2a and 3.1 and felt the 2.2a had far better bass. She changed the woofer in her 3.1 to another HiVi woofer and says it is now much improved. This is the woofer she used. It appears to be almost identical to the woofer in the 2.2a, except with a different cone material. Note, Stephe is not a speaker expert and just did a straight swap. It sounded better to her, and it does fit.
I recommend thinking about the following before you buy the yellow cone drivers.
I'm an expert now - no not that just kidding, that said maybe I can save someone $150.

So unless you just want some yellow cones that are not an exact fit(electrically) or maybe not even a decent fit for the crossover, (and you want to buy them based on purely the subjective opinion of someone who doesn't exactly come across like the next Andrew Jones in the video) maybe skip them.
Pulling parts, replacing and praying is a part of DIY fun but I think we could go at least a bit deeper here.

The Hivi L6-4R included with the kit is 4ohms
The Hivi yellow cone D6G you linked is 8ohms
Plus they are different in other parameters, including the effective sensitivity of the L6-4R is much higher than the two D series drivers(yellow cone and 2.2a).
I have measured the 4ohm L6-4R as 91.49db SPL w/2.83v
I have measured the 8ohm D6.8 IIb as 85.66db SPl w/2.83v
Pretty big sensitivity difference here even if you decide to calculate @ 1watt.
This means the crossover in the midrange is likley going to be off by an objectively significant amount due to both sensitivity and impedance differences, not to mention any frequency responce deviations. I mean we are buying these because they measure really well. This potential change should be meaured by that video host.

The ASR measurements here for the 3.1a are excellent.
The bass goes deep enough for a 6.5" with a smooth roll off, and without overly threatening the driver's x-max.
That should allow great in room extension to 35-55hrz depending on the size of the room. You will have your room modes and SBIR(peaking and nulls due to the rooms size and shape and placement) to deal with but that will always be the case.
If you need better bass, buy/make subs. If subs are a non-starter and you do not listen loudly, use tone control or EQ/PEQ to turn up the bass a bit.
If you listen loudly and especially if the room is on the large size you will need subs or towers. A pair of 6.5" drivers simply can not handle high or even medium high SPL @ 40-45hrz unless the room is tiny or they have a true 10-12mm xmax.

I don't know what frequency the 2.2a enclosure is tuned to, the 3.1a is tuned around 48hrz. It is possible the 2.2a is tuned slightly lower or that it has a tuned bump. In any case tuning a 6.5" on the low side works for a lower output system but will stress the woofer at higher output and could damage it in some cases.
I don't know why the 2.2a was perceived as having 'better' bass, nor why a mismatched woofer (the yellow one) would be so great. The host could show some basic measurements and explain why. It could just be bloated or poorly tuned extra bass that someone perceives as great. It could also be truly 'better' or perhaps as mentioned tuned lower. It could also be subjective biases.

Ultimately HiVi does charge more for the D series (the yellow cone and the black one used in the 2.2a speaker) vs the L series woofer used in the 3.1a. That may make it appear like an upgrade however a speaker is a system and needs to be taken as such.
The D6.8 IIb in the 2.2a and the yellow D6G are very similar drivers, the main difference is the cone material, not much else. The woofer used in the 3.1a is more modest price wise but is a simpler design and that is cheaper to make but not nessicarly of less ultimate quality.
Like most 6.5" woofers made, none of the 6-6.5 '' Hivi woofers have the specs for being bass monsters in any sort of high SPL system. Pair them with an electronic high pass and supplement with subs for that expereince.


as an aside there is now a real mark II version of D series woofers out on the market, they look pretty cool tech wise. I wouldn't use one here but in some other project they might be Dynaudio clone fun.
 

AlesM

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I'd like to chime in a little on this concept. 1st of all, the woofers are 4 ohms. Two in parallel would create a 2 ohm load, which would be challenging at best for most amps. The more common approach in this case would be to connect the two woofers in series. In that scenario, you would be buying all new crossover parts for the woofer circuit (as a general rule, the impact would be to double the inductor values and halve the capacitor values. That would get you somewhat close, but there would still have to be additional tweaking to get the midrange to integrate effectively with the two woofers. Also, you wouldn't really gain any additional bass extension - just power handling.

All in all, it would be more expensive to add the woofer than do mod6. That said, I'm not really sure mod6 will have a major impact either. I currently am using mod5. As suggested above, adding a subwoofer or dual subs that could also serve as stands for the 3.1's is likely to be a better option overall if you want to take things to another level.
Hello,

thank you for good explanation. I agree. I wanna make tower speakers instead of making stands. Maybe I try, what was suggested already here with dubble volume. will see. Now I already use a 10'' sub and works well.
In meanwhile I upgrade the Xover to MOD6 and got a coil with a very low resistance. Now we have bass. Almost too much for my taste ;-) and they are more pleasent to listen. More balanced. I can hear the difference. Good job I recomend it.
1699621425492.png


Aniway I have compared them to a diapolito center speaker and for my taste Swans have a bit to brite to upfront mids... still. My suggestion is to increase resistor from 3ohm to 3.7 or 4 ohm on mid driver. What is your opinion on that before I...? :)

PS: is there a solution for an adjustable resistor to put on xover, so I could simply adjust the level of each driver as it suits me?
 

sychan

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Usually, once the crossover can get the speaker frequency response to be flat, you use tone controls or an equalizer to tweak the sound. It's a lot more convenient than trying to adjust resistor values in each crossover.
 

beagleman

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I recommend thinking about the following before you buy the yellow cone drivers.
I'm an expert now - no not that just kidding, that said maybe I can save someone $150.

So unless you just want some yellow cones that are not an exact fit(electrically) or maybe not even a decent fit for the crossover, (and you want to buy them based on purely the subjective opinion of someone who doesn't exactly come across like the next Andrew Jones in the video) maybe skip them.
Pulling parts, replacing and praying is a part of DIY fun but I think we could go at least a bit deeper here.

The Hivi L6-4R included with the kit is 4ohms
The Hivi yellow cone D6G you linked is 8ohms
Plus they are different in other parameters, including the effective sensitivity of the L6-4R is much higher than the two D series drivers(yellow cone and 2.2a).
I have measured the 4ohm L6-4R as 91.49db SPL w/2.83v
I have measured the 8ohm D6.8 IIb as 85.66db SPl w/2.83v
Pretty big sensitivity difference here even if you decide to calculate @ 1watt.
This means the crossover in the midrange is likley going to be off by an objectively significant amount due to both sensitivity and impedance differences, not to mention any frequency responce deviations. I mean we are buying these because they measure really well. This potential change should be meaured by that video host.

The ASR measurements here for the 3.1a are excellent.
The bass goes deep enough for a 6.5" with a smooth roll off, and without overly threatening the driver's x-max.
That should allow great in room extension to 35-55hrz depending on the size of the room. You will have your room modes and SBIR(peaking and nulls due to the rooms size and shape and placement) to deal with but that will always be the case.
If you need better bass, buy/make subs. If subs are a non-starter and you do not listen loudly, use tone control or EQ/PEQ to turn up the bass a bit.
If you listen loudly and especially if the room is on the large size you will need subs or towers. A pair of 6.5" drivers simply can not handle high or even medium high SPL @ 40-45hrz unless the room is tiny or they have a true 10-12mm xmax.

I don't know what frequency the 2.2a enclosure is tuned to, the 3.1a is tuned around 48hrz. It is possible the 2.2a is tuned slightly lower or that it has a tuned bump. In any case tuning a 6.5" on the low side works for a lower output system but will stress the woofer at higher output and could damage it in some cases.
I don't know why the 2.2a was perceived as having 'better' bass, nor why a mismatched woofer (the yellow one) would be so great. The host could show some basic measurements and explain why. It could just be bloated or poorly tuned extra bass that someone perceives as great. It could also be truly 'better' or perhaps as mentioned tuned lower. It could also be subjective biases.

Ultimately HiVi does charge more for the D series (the yellow cone and the black one used in the 2.2a speaker) vs the L series woofer used in the 3.1a. That may make it appear like an upgrade however a speaker is a system and needs to be taken as such.
The D6.8 IIb in the 2.2a and the yellow D6G are very similar drivers, the main difference is the cone material, not much else. The woofer used in the 3.1a is more modest price wise but is a simpler design and that is cheaper to make but not nessicarly of less ultimate quality.
Like most 6.5" woofers made, none of the 6-6.5 '' Hivi woofers have the specs for being bass monsters in any sort of high SPL system. Pair them with an electronic high pass and supplement with subs for that expereince.


as an aside there is now a real mark II version of D series woofers out on the market, they look pretty cool tech wise. I wouldn't use one here but in some other project they might be Dynaudio clone fun.

The "upgrade" that person did on youtube, makes next to no sense. I see zero reason to go with a whole new woofer, that is relatively similar, except for obviously sensitivity and impedance.

Reminds me of stuff I did when I was 15 and just randomly hooked up various drivers, "hoping" to get better sound. It rarely worked, as things are designed to work as a whole, even when they are less than stellar or perfect.
 

ROOSKIE

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Howdy, odd I just pulled these off the shelf to listen to!
Not a dumb question. You obviously want to achieve a great finished speaker with your time and sweat invested.
The inductors are close but since that is how they were arranged in the design any issue is factored into the existing measurements which are great.
They are not ideal distances from one another but that is okay.
You really don't want the centers aimed at one another. That is usually considered the worst arrangement.

index.php
 

Mudjock

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Has anybody upgraded the midbass? I was looking at a possible replacement here for a bit more bass. I like the frequency response for a woofer. https://www.parts-express.com/Wavec...aper-Cone-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-298-1052?quantity=1
The Wavecor driver you link would give you about an extra 10 Hz of extension in that enclosure. The problem is that the standard woofer in the DIY-3.1A plays up to 1 kHz. The frequency response graph below indicates the Wavecor sub is not up to that task. The HiVi DIY-3.1A midrange can't play low enough to solve the problem.
1709600144553.png
 

DrexelLake

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The Wavecor driver you link would give you about an extra 10 Hz of extension in that enclosure. The problem is that the standard woofer in the DIY-3.1A plays up to 1 kHz. The frequency response graph below indicates the Wavecor sub is not up to that task. The HiVi DIY-3.1A midrange can't play low enough to solve the problem.
View attachment 354222
I was hoping with the Wavecors ability to go into 500Hz range that it would be okay.
 

DrexelLake

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The bass is already pretty incredible for a bookshelf. What specific deficiency are you trying to solve for?
Right now none. It's perfect in my small listening room. But we're planning on moving, and I will have a larger room. Would be a wonderful excuse to buy my dream speakers, Klipsch Forte IV's.
 

Nwickliff

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Right now none. It's perfect in my small listening room. But we're planning on moving, and I will have a larger room. Would be a wonderful excuse to buy my dream speakers, Klipsch Forte IV's.
Beautiful and fun speaker. Not accurate but fun. Also resonates. Once you hear open baffle or really well braced speaker you won’t be able to unhear any of the heritage speakers resonating boxes. I’ve had, forte, chorus, Heresy. All have resonances and very uneven frequency responses and dispersion. Eq can fix the frequency response but not the other two. Like I said though, super fun speakers.
 

DrexelLake

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Beautiful and fun speaker. Not accurate but fun. Also resonates. Once you hear open baffle or really well braced speaker you won’t be able to unhear any of the heritage speakers resonating boxes. I’ve had, forte, chorus, Heresy. All have resonances and very uneven frequency responses and dispersion. Eq can fix the frequency response but not the other two. Like I said though, super fun speakers.
Yep, just the way I like them. I love Klipsch heritage series. Some of the best in the business have reviewed the Forte as a great speaker. I agree with them. But I rely on my ears over graphs.
 

Nwickliff

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Yep, just the way I like them. I love Klipsch heritage series. Some of the best in the business have reviewed the Forte as a great speaker. I agree with them. But I rely on my ears over graphs.
I actually would love to have another pair of heritage speakers. They have an endearing quality and they’re gorgeous IMO. The fact that some notes jump forward and some jump wider isn’t “accurate” but that’s what makes them engaging and fun.
 

HighFutility

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Hey everyone, I just picked up the kit. I wanted to include the photo of my PCB and manual to make sure everything is good to go and has not changed since its review here. I read that Amazon, at one point, was selling them with the perfectionist mod. Is the Sehlin Mod 4 still the best way to go? I'm just going through the parts list and making sure everything is here. Thanks @Mudjock for your continued support, I read all the pages in this review but just want to get some clarification that MOD 4 is still the best route to go.

431169854_364724639875479_4902356819135327930_n.jpg
431230339_1409329089689228_9169086796280010374_n.jpg
431172642_1177982383217875_8221056119014867662_n.jpg
 

HighFutility

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Mod 6 would consist of the following, correct? I cannot find R1 (6.81 OHM RESISTOR). Would a 7 Ohm work?
1710538374627.png
 

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lookstoomuch

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Mod 6 would consist of the following, correct? I cannot find R1 (6.81 OHM RESISTOR). Would a 7 Ohm work?
While I can't remember the specifics of Mod 6, I went with a 7 ohm resistor in mine which was mod "5.5". If you want to get really exact about it you could parallel a 250 ohm with the 7 ohm to get the 6.81 value. 6.81 will make the tweeter slightly hotter vs. 7 ohm. I probably wouldn't bother with it but that's me.
 

HighFutility

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While I can't remember the specifics of Mod 6, I went with a 7 ohm resistor in mine which was mod "5.5". If you want to get really exact about it you could parallel a 250 ohm with the 7 ohm to get the 6.81 value. 6.81 will make the tweeter slightly hotter vs. 7 ohm. I probably wouldn't bother with it but that's me.
Hey, thanks for the reply; I am going off this post assuming it is mod 6. https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...aker-with-sehlin-mod-review.15802/post-980889 If anyone could clarify, that would be great. It looks like from mod 5 > 6 L4 & C5 were changed. If memory serves correctly, mod 6 was supposed to address the 1-200hz dip.
 

lookstoomuch

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Hey, thanks for the reply; I am going off this post assuming it is mod 6. https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...aker-with-sehlin-mod-review.15802/post-980889 If anyone could clarify, that would be great. It looks like from mod 5 > 6 L4 & C5 were changed. If memory serves correctly, mod 6 was supposed to address the 1-200hz dip.
That's my recollection, mod 6 was inductors and made cost start creeping up so I stopped at 5.5. Can't remember where the 7/6.81 got put into the mix.
 
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