Sigberg Audio Saranna (fullrange, cardioid active floorstander) development thread

[sigbergaudio]

 

[Draki]

https://sica.it/prodotto/8-cx-2-5-pl/ ??

 

[sigbergaudio]

https://sica.it/prodotto/8-cx-2-5-pl/ ??

Modified / custom version of that, yes.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Interesting point in another thread about smaller drivers and surface area:

Have Slim Floorstanding Speakers "Had Their Day?"

But, I don’t think you can ignore xmax differences. I’m thinking of designs like the KEF Blade that use multiple smaller woofers highly effectively. I wasn't saying you can ignore xmax, but without a data sheet I know of no way of guessing how it compares, I don't think there is a general rule.

www.audiosciencereview.com

This is a significant part of the reason why I went with 8" drivers in the Saranna. The dual 8" has about the same area as an 11" driver, and they have a linear xmax of +/- 12mm

In addition you now get the high powered 8" coax working down to 200hz. The result is a tower that packs quite a punch.

 

[sigbergaudio]

New drivers have finally arrived and one speaker is complete. Will be a few days before the second one is done and speakers have been tuned enough to get a first impression. The 8" coax with the naked horn sure looks brutal though! More will follow!

 

[sigbergaudio]

New prototypes are up and running with some rough initial tuning. The cabinet and port design got some adjustments too. Among other things the cabinet is 2cm deeper.

I think it would be fair to call this a fullrange floorstander at least. The coax looks promising too. This was measured at ~1m distance in-room.

Will share some listening impressions of the new coax after I've spent some more time with it.

 

[ryanosaur]

New prototypes are up and running with some rough initial tuning. The cabinet and port design got some adjustments too. Among other things the cabinet is 2cm deeper.

I think it would be fair to call this a fullrange floorstander at least. The coax looks promising too. This was measured at ~1m distance in-room.

View attachment 351377

Will share some listening impressions of the new coax after I've spent some more time with it.

Dunno if I missed it, but what spurred you to look at a different Coax than the one used on the SBS and Manta? Does it use the same Compression Tweeter, or is that different, too?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Dunno if I missed it, but what spurred you to look at a different Coax than the one used on the SBS and Manta? Does it use the same Compression Tweeter, or is that different, too?

The main reason was my (unhealthy? ) addiction to midbass, and my preference for lightweight drivers in this range. As this tower is a traditional three way design rather than the 4-way of the SBS and Manta, there isn't a dedicated midbass driver in the same way.

In the SBS, the capacity in this area is solved by the 2.5-way design of the monitor, so you have 2x5.5" drivers working in the midbass range. In the Manta, the coax is crossed over very high (600hz), so it is able to keep up that way, while the massive 12" handle the midbass.

In this design, you have subwoofer drivers crossed over directly to the coax at 200hz, so having just the 5.5" coax handling this range would mean it would have had less real estate available for what I deem an important area than any of the other two designs. Bringing in the new 8" coax brings back some of that capacity with a high powered 8" driver with the same type of lightweight driver cone and suspension taking over at 200hz.

The tweeter is completely different. The SBS/Manta coax features a traditional silk dome, while this is a polymide compression driver with a 1.7" voice coil. Due to its higher capacity it is also crossed over much lower (~1600hz vs 2500hz). So it will be interesting to get to know this driver over the next few days.

 

[sigbergaudio]

In-room at the listening position they're currently flat to 21.5hz, and -6dB point is 18hz.

 

[Thomas_A]

Does it have a final name yet? What about Kraken? Or the next one perhaps.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Does it have a final name yet? What about Kraken? Or the next one perhaps.

Saranna is the working name now, and I suspect i might stick.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Laptop permanently connected to be able to quickly do small adjustments by ear as I listen through familiar material. And, yes will of course measure along the way too. Typical process is to alternate between listening and measuring, doing adjustments during both.

 

[sigbergaudio]

There's some debate on the "missing" dust cap on the coax on another forum, I suspect it will be a love/hate thing.

What's not so easy to see in pictures but looks pretty cool in real life is the fact that the hole in the middle also contains a radial phase plug:

 

[sigbergaudio]

Average of 0-15-30 degrees (250-20,000hz @0.5m) after some adjustments the last couple of days. Starting to sound really good! I suspect the new coax is here to stay. Initially it sounded a bit laidback, but I am now well on the way to bringing out energy and sparkle while keeping hardness and harshness at bay. The sound characteristics is a bit different from the coax used in the SBS.1 and Manta, but not necessarily in a negative way.

 

[Purité Audio]

I can already hear my wife saying, ‘what you have bought another pair of loudspeakers’.
Keith

 

[Mnyb]

I can already hear my wife saying, ‘what you have bought another pair of loudspeakers’.
Keith

She will hear you lugging in more boxes from the kitchen , no doubt

 

[sigbergaudio]

A few more measurements, note that they're all rough indoor measurements for now.


Testing different crossovers today, currently testing one of the lowest I can practically use with these drivers, at 130hz - to get the cardioid as low as possible.

Crossover between bass drivers and coax:

Current 0-30-60-90 degrees off-axis (300-20,000hz):

 

[Vacceo]

Is it me or step by step, Mr. Thornbjørn is releasing all the potential elements of an Atmos setup? Add height and center and you have it. That said, it is very nice to see a speaker that is really full range when advertised as full range.

Does it have a final name yet? What about Kraken? Or the next one perhaps.

Mjolnir is reserved for the dual 12 inch subwoofer.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Time to share some subjective impressions of the sound of the second prototype with the new 8" coax with compression driver

The overall tonal balance and sound signature is now not too far from Manta with subwoofers. These speakers love rhytmic and complex music like rock / hard rock, and putting on something like Volbeat or Rammstein sounds full, rich and clean rather than thin, messy and chaotic (as with way too many speakers). The bass is tight and deep and the midbass present and punchy. Guitars and rock vocals are in your face, raspy and tough without being harsh.

The compression driver is impressive too, with clear, open sound and no dynamic compression whatsoever no matter how loud you play. I had a slight fear that it would be harsh or unrefined, not the case at all. Pretty confident the new coax driver is worthy of being mounted in a Sigberg Audio speaker.

A track like the Space Oddity cover by Passenger rewards you with a three dimensional soundstage, crisp guitar, clean bass notes, tight percussion and beautiful vocals floating in the air between the speakers. Put on Lost Without You by Freya Ridings, and you get confirmation that female vocals sound excellent too, and the larger than life piano production is just that: Larger than life.

The bass drivers are the same as before, but the bass port has been redesigned and tuned slightly differently. Current port tuning is 27-28hz. Put on some elektronika and the bass, well, I have a 10D subwoofer connected to this system, let's just say I've had to get up and check that it was turned off more than once. The bass drivers are currently crossed over at ~140hz (subject to change) with the coax rolling off relatively hard to minimize excursion.


And another photo (note that this is still obviously a very rough prototype with regards to fit and finish)

 

[AudioJester]

Looks nice.
What is the cardioid range?