Revel F35 Speaker Review

[LeontTP]

Something else Ive noticed through more listening is how different releases of music dont seem as different from eachother as before.

I do a fair share of comparing masterings and mixes but with these the playing field seems more even than it used to be. I expected the opposite result, revealing more faults and pros between versions rather than less.

Not sure this is how it should be or because Im not used to these yet.

 

[Robbo99999]

Something else Ive noticed through more listening is how different releases of music dont seem as different from eachother as before.

I do a fair share of comparing masterings and mixes but with these the playing field seems more even than it used to be. I expected the opposite result, revealing more faults and pros between versions rather than less.

Not sure this is how it should be or because Im not used to these yet.

The good thing about Anechoic Flat speakers is that they sound good on almost everything, I never bother to reach for any tone control with my different music because of that I believe. If you have a speaker that is deviating quite a lot in some places from Anechoic Flat then it can push some tracks "over the edge" into uncomfortable territory - that's my theory. I find the same with a good headphone EQ, no tone control required for different tracks. I think this is related to your observation.

 

[LeontTP]

The good thing about Anechoic Flat speakers is that they sound good on almost everything, I never bother to reach for any tone control with my different music because of that I believe. If you have a speaker that is deviating quite a lot in some places from Anechoic Flat then it can push some tracks "over the edge" into uncomfortable territory - that's my theory. I find the same with a good headphone EQ, no tone control required for different tracks. I think this is related to your observation.

Hmm, I thought mastering engineers used quite flat speakers or monitors as well but would they really do that if almost anything sounds good through them? Wouldnt that hinder their work?
Having to make more drastic changes to achieve differences.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hmm, I thought mastering engineers used quite flat speakers or monitors as well but would they really do that if almost anything sounds good through them? Wouldnt that hinder their work?
Having to make more drastic changes to achieve differences.

Well, the point is that during the music creation process the engineers & artists would on the whole be using good speakers that are likely to approximate Anechoic Flat, so their mix would be designed to sound good on Anechoic Flat. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are small tonality differences & tonality imperfections in some recorded music but I think Anechoic Flat is probably a best approximation of an "average" speaker that would be used by these music creators - as in I would wager that if you were to measure all the different speakers used in various studios then Anechoic Flat wouldn't be far off that average. If that would be the case then it's reasonable to think that this gives the chance for the most tracks to sound as close to as intended as possible - ie sounding good. It would be non-sensical for music producers to balance their final published track based on some kind of speaker with a super funky frequency response (strange tonality or some strange peaks & dips in places). It's just about having a neutral backdrop, a neutral canvas on which to place the music.

 

[LeontTP]

Well, the point is that during the music creation process the engineers & artists would on the whole be using good speakers that are likely to approximate Anechoic Flat, so their mix would be designed to sound good on Anechoic Flat. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are small tonality differences & tonality imperfections in some recorded music but I think Anechoic Flat is probably a best approximation of an "average" speaker that would be used by these music creators - as in I would wager that if you were to measure all the different speakers used in various studios then Anechoic Flat wouldn't be far off that average. If that would be the case then it's reasonable to think that this gives the chance for the most tracks to sound as close to as intended as possible - ie sounding good. It would be non-sensical for music producers to balance their final published track based on some kind of speaker with a super funky frequency response (strange tonality or some strange peaks & dips in places). It's just about having a neutral backdrop, a neutral canvas on which to place the music.

Sure, I get that. But for some of these releases I know that they differ in sound, its just that I struggle more to identify it.

But again it could just be that Im not used to it yet.

Trio 65 A3 AS33 GainMatched.flac

drive.google.com

Trio 65 A3 ORG45 GainMatched.flac

drive.google.com

As an example, these two samples I made were quite different sounding to eachother before, but not as much now. If you have the time let me know what you make of it.

 

[Robbo99999]

Sure, I get that. But for some of these releases I know that they differ in sound, its just that I struggle more to identify it.

But again it could just be that Im not used to it yet.

Trio 65 A3 AS33 GainMatched.flac

drive.google.com

Trio 65 A3 ORG45 GainMatched.flac

drive.google.com

As an example, these two samples I made were quite different sounding to eachother before, but not as much now. If you have the time let me know what you make of it.

I just think you're searching for something that isn't there (not talking about your flac files). A speakers job is just to be a blank canvas for the reproduction of music, not as a means to flavour it into something different. It's possible that with your prior speakers that they had somekind of frequency response quirks in some areas that highlights the differences between those tracks to a greater degree (than it should). The job of your speaker is not there to search & highlight the differences between different releases of the same song....and besides it would be a different frequency response each time that would highlight the differences between another two different releases of another same song......so it's not like you have any one speaker that is supposedly the most "resolving" speaker that can highlight every difference on every track. I think you're getting mixed up about stuff & looking at it with the wrong angle. Just remember a speakers job is just to be a blank canvas for the reproduction of music, which ultimately leads to maximum enjoyment of your music on average, as that is "closest to how the artist intended" - anechoic flat, good directivity, low distortion - and also remember that two different speakers that are designed to follow those targets won't sound exactly the same unless they really do have pretty much the same frequency response in all areas (including extension into bass), including the same directivity accross that frequency response, and to a lesser extent the same distortion,.....and they'd have to be placed in the same position in your room and they'd both have to have their own roomEQ done below the transition curve to each speaker, and they'd have to be level matched - so you can see it's extremely difficult to compare speakers (and we've not even talked about blind testing & quick switching), and it's also therefore very easy to see why two different speakers won't sound the same when trying to compare them when all this has been understood.

 

[LeontTP]

I just think you're searching for something that isn't there (not talking about your flac files). A speakers job is just to be a blank canvas for the reproduction of music, not as a means to flavour it into something different. It's possible that with your prior speakers that they had somekind of frequency response quirks in some areas that highlights the differences between those tracks to a greater degree (than it should). The job of your speaker is not there to search & highlight the differences between different releases of the same song....and besides it would be a different frequency response each time that would highlight the differences between another two different releases of another same song......so it's not like you have any one speaker that is supposedly the most "resolving" speaker that can highlight every difference on every track. I think you're getting mixed up about stuff & looking at it with the wrong angle. Just remember a speakers job is just to be a blank canvas for the reproduction of music, which ultimately leads to maximum enjoyment of your music on average, as that is "closest to how the artist intended" - anechoic flat, good directivity, low distortion - and also remember that two different speakers that are designed to follow those targets won't sound exactly the same unless they really do have pretty much the same frequency response in all areas (including extension into bass), including the same directivity accross that frequency response, and to a lesser extent the same distortion,.....and they'd have to be placed in the same position in your room and they'd both have to have their own roomEQ done below the transition curve to each speaker, and they'd have to be level matched - so you can see it's extremely difficult to compare speakers (and we've not even talked about blind testing & quick switching), and it's also therefore very easy to see why two different speakers won't sound the same when trying to compare them when all this has been understood.

Well said, I do see them as canvases but what I mean is if one version has more bass than another, it should reflect on whichever speaker you use right? The differences should always hold true the same no matter what output characteristics a speaker has yes?

Which is why Im surprised, since Id expect with these new and obviously more capable speakers to be able to differentiate those outputs even clearer given less distortions etc, or at least as easily.

But youre saying that anechoic flat units would logically smooth out those differences for lack of better terminology? Because its not just these two examples, I feel it applies to several so far.

 

[Robbo99999]

Well said, I do see them as canvases but what I mean is if one version has more bass than another, it should reflect on whichever speaker you use right? The differences should always hold true the same no matter what output characteristics a speaker has yes?

Which is why Im surprised, since Id expect with these new and obviously more capable speakers to be able to differentiate those outputs even clearer given less distortions etc, or at least as easily.

But youre saying that anechoic flat units would logically smooth out those differences for lack of better terminology? Because its not just these two examples, I feel it applies to several so far.

Have you got more bass on your F35 speakers vs the previous speakers you're comparing them to? If so, then the extra bass, especially if you haven't got effective RoomEQ could make the bass more boomy on the F35 which would mask some detail in other areas of the frequency response, which is why you might be able to notice overall more detail in your music in your old speakers. Are you using RoomEQ?

 

[LeontTP]

Have you got more bass on your F35 speakers vs the previous speakers you're comparing them to? If so, then the extra bass, especially if you haven't got effective RoomEQ could make the bass more boomy on the F35 which would mask some detail in other areas of the frequency response, which is why you might be able to notice overall more detail in your music in your old speakers. Are you using RoomEQ?

Yes more bass and no Room EQ. You mean room EQ as in a program or room treatment?

I assume the program. It would be nice to use for streaming but I mostly play physical media.
Can I somehow try to EQ for that?

 

[LeontTP]

I looked around online a bit and the quickest and simplest trick seems to be trying to put socks in the back exhausts. Tried this resulting with indeed weaker bass output put it didnt help much in terms of changing how the upper end is perceived.
I might still need a tiny bit of bass reduction to clean up the boomy character I get sometimes.
I just hope theres a more elegant solution than socks though :^D

I think it may just be that Im also accustomed to a slight boost in some upper frequencies from my headphones and old speakers which helped determine the overall tone and "air" of a mastering.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yes more bass and no Room EQ. You mean room EQ as in a program or room treatment?

I assume the program. It would be nice to use for streaming but I mostly play physical media.
Can I somehow try to EQ for that?

Ah, I see, all bets are off I think if you're not using Room EQ. By Room EQ I just mean any program and mic combo that you use to measure your in-room frequency response at your listening positions - after which point parametric EQ is used to reduce peaks in the bass (& sometimes to boost troughs) which is created by the bass & room interaction. I use a UMIK-1 microphone and then use REW, some people use DIRAC and I think there's a couple of other software solutions out there. I mean you can enjoy your speakers without using Room EQ, but trying to compare your F35's that have more bass than your prior speakers when you're not using Room EQ is going to potentially make your F35's sound more bloated in the bass which could mask other areas. If I was you I'd stop obsessing re your comparisons of your new F35's with your prior speakers, and just be very happy you've got a great speaker in the F35 (& at a good price!) - and then instead work out how to optimise your room in terms of speaker & listening positions and also using Room EQ to get the most out of those very good new speakers you have. You can also learn how to do an Anechoic EQ on the F35 to optimise it further, alongside your Room EQ. I'd just start focussing on the F35 if I was you and forget about comparisons with your previous speaker.

EDIT: looking back at our previous conversations on here a while back I advised that I thought this speaker would be good without Room EQ due to the gradual roll off of bass, and I still think that's true, but you can optimise it further using Room EQ, and I didn't realise you were going to be comparing it to death against your prior speakers....and I think if you're going to be comparing them then you should use Room EQ and also control what you're doing a lot more than you currently are to make it an even comparison.....but I don't really advise you to go down the rabbit hole of formally & rigourously comparing speakers, it's a massive pain in the ass to do it properly & so many pitfalls.....instead just optimise those F35's if you want like I was saying in the previous paragraph.

EDIT#2: you might need to invest in a miniDSP EQ solution in order to apply EQ to your speakers if you're not using something like a PC or laptop to play your music. Have a look around on ASR to learn about RoomEQ & miniDSP, and then think about what your next approach is gonna be, if you are gonna do anything further.

EDIT#3: I spent a long time listening to my JBL 308p Mkii speakers with only an Anechoic EQ and no RoomEQ and I really did enjoy them like that. At the moment I'm using RoomEQ, but there's no law that you have to use RoomEQ....just if you're gonna rigourously compare your F35's to your prior speakers you need to control what you're doing in the comparisons a lot more.....but really don't do that, I really don't advise you to keep trying to compare to your previous speakers, too much to go wrong to give you false impressions and too much of a pain to do it properly. Start enjoying your speakers instead and also if you like then learn about how you can optimise them further.

 

[LeontTP]

Ah, I see, all bets are off I think if you're not using Room EQ. By Room EQ I just mean any program and mic combo that you use to measure your in-room frequency response at your listening positions - after which point parametric EQ is used to reduce peaks in the bass (& sometimes to boost troughs) which is created by the bass & room interaction. I use a UMIK-1 microphone and then use REW, some people use DIRAC and I think there's a couple of other software solutions out there. I mean you can enjoy your speakers without using Room EQ, but trying to compare your F35's that have more bass than your prior speakers when you're not using Room EQ is going to potentially make your F35's sound more bloated in the bass which could mask other areas. If I was you I'd stop obsessing re your comparisons of your new F35's with your prior speakers, and just be very happy you've got a great speaker in the F35 (& at a good price!) - and then instead work out how to optimise your room in terms of speaker & listening positions and also using Room EQ to get the most out of those very good new speakers you have. You can also learn how to do an Anechoic EQ on the F35 to optimise it further, alongside your Room EQ. I'd just start focussing on the F35 if I was you and forget about comparisons with your previous speaker.

EDIT: looking back at our previous conversations on here a while back I advised that I thought this speaker would be good without Room EQ due to the gradual roll off of bass, and I still think that's true, but you can optimise it further using Room EQ, and I didn't realise you were going to be comparing it to death against your prior speakers....and I think if you're going to be comparing them then you should use Room EQ and also control what you're doing a lot more than you currently are to make it an even comparison.....but I don't really advise you to go down the rabbit hole of formally & rigourously comparing speakers, it's a massive pain in the ass to do it properly & so many pitfalls.....instead just optimise those F35's if you want like I was saying in the previous paragraph.

EDIT#2: you might need to invest in a miniDSP EQ solution in order to apply EQ to your speakers if you're not using something like a PC or laptop to play your music. Have a look around on ASR to learn about RoomEQ & miniDSP, and then think about what your next approach is gonna be, if you are gonna do anything further.

EDIT#3: I spent a long time listening to my JBL 308p Mkii speakers with only an Anechoic EQ and no RoomEQ and I really did enjoy them like that. At the moment I'm using RoomEQ, but there's no law that you have to use RoomEQ....just if you're gonna rigourously compare your F35's to your prior speakers you need to control what you're doing in the comparisons a lot more.....but really don't do that, I really don't advise you to keep trying to compare to your previous speakers, too much to go wrong to give you false impressions and too much of a pain to do it properly. Start enjoying your speakers instead and also if you like then learn about how you can optimise them further.

Youre right, Ive had my years in the HiFi world and the areas I do know about, like Vinyl playback, I say most of the stuff you learn is not worth worrying about. Not to mention all the snakeoil!

Ill do some experimentation with these, like trying a slightly brighter sounding Cartridge for my records and not worry too much about the rest. Dont get me wrong, Ive been pretty impressed with these so far ( my friends too ), especially for well recorded and produced music these knock it out of the park, so my posts are mostly nitpicks in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe someday in a more proper room Ill try adding a sub and going more into Room EQ as well. But for now Im not too bothered.

 

[Robbo99999]

Youre right, Ive had my years in the HiFi world and the areas I do know about, like Vinyl playback, I say most of the stuff you learn is not worth worrying about.

Ill do some experimentation with these, like trying a slightly brighter sounding Cartridge for my records and not worry too much about the rest. Dont get me wrong, Ive been pretty impressed with these so far ( my friends too ), especially for well recorded and produced music from the modern era these knock it out of the park, so my posts are mostly nitpicks in the grand scheme of things.

Good good, well enjoy them, and learn some more about RoomEQ & AnechoicEQ if you want, it's far more exact & powerful than experimenting with different cartridges for vinyl re tuning your sound (although I know next to nothing about the intricacies of vinyl playback beyond my own sure conclusion that it's not really the best starting point of a system).

 

[LeontTP]

Got myself a Yamaha AS 701 for my Revel F35 speakers. Question is should I run the impedance selector on Low (4 Ohm min) or High (6 Ohm min) for these speakers?

Revel states impedance at 6 Ohm but Amirs measurements go down to around 4. So I assume it should be set to 4?

 

[AdamG]

Got myself a Yamaha AS 701 for my Revel F35 speakers. Question is should I run the impedance selector on Low (4 Ohm min) or High (6 Ohm min) for these speakers?

Revel states impedance at 6 Ohm but Amirs measurements go down to around 4. So I assume it should be set to 4?

Always leave this impedance switch on 8 ohms. It’s only there so that the unit will pass UL certification. When you switch it to 4 ohms all your doing is reducing the Amps power output limits. Leave it at 8 and make sure to install the AVR in a location with proper airflow all around the unit. It’s an Air cooled device after all.

 

[LeontTP]

Always leave this impedance switch on 8 ohms. It’s only there so that the unit will pass UL certification. When you switch it to 4 ohms all your doing is reducing the Amps power output limits. Leave it at 8 and make sure to install the AVR in a location with proper airflow all around the unit. It’s an Air cooled device after all.

You mean 6 Ohm I assume, 8 - 12 Ohm is only for bi wiring speakers.

 

[AVKS]

You mean 6 Ohm I assume, 8 - 12 Ohm is only for bi wiring speakers.

Yes, whatever the largest number is.

 

[AdamG]

Yes, whatever the largest number is.

This ^^^. My apologies for not being clear enough. Set to highest and forget it’s there.

 

[Sal1950]

^^^ Size matters

 

[mad_matt]

I am pretty stoked that these followed me home today. I got a great deal from a local enthusiast, who had them priced to sell.