Direct, Pure Direct & Stereo with Audyssey by-pass

[amper42]

One question for you about the L/R bypass option, that is, if you configure your speakers for 2.1, would it even give you the option (that is L/R bypass)?

My X4400H won't let me do it, but obviously I can just leave speaker config in 11.1. It is not a problem even for 3.1, just not 2.1. So it really doesn't matter I think, just curious that's all.

@peng - The Denon 4700 lets me setup Stereo with Audyssey L/R bypass. I used that configuration along with "Pre-amp" mode to test the Revel F328Be yesterday.

 

[peng]

@peng - The Denon 4700 lets me setup Stereo with Audyssey L/R bypass. I used that configuration along with "Pre-amp" mode to test the Revel F328Be yesterday.

Thank you, but did you try that with the speakers configured for 2.1 only? My 4400 allows me to use L/R bypass too, but not if the speakers are configured for just 2.1, in other words, if I select all other speakers to none, then I would lose the L/R bypass option, just wonder if the 4700 works the same way.

 

[amper42]

Thank you, but did you try that with the speakers configured for 2.1 only? My 4400 allows me to use L/R bypass too, but not if the speakers are configured for just 2.1, in other words, if I select all other speakers to none, then I would lose the L/R bypass option, just wonder if the 4700 works the same way.

Yes, the Denon 4700 allowed me to select Audyssey "front L/R bypass" in all modes including 2.0, 2.1 and 7.2.4. Of course, each mode has it's own memory so the setting had to be selected for each one under Audio: Audyssey.

 

[peng]

Yes, the Denon 4700 allowed me to select Audyssey "front L/R bypass" in all modes including 2.0, 2.1 and 7.2.4. Of course, each mode has it's own memory so the setting had to be selected for each one under Audio: Audyssey.

Thank you, in my case I have to reconfigure it back to 7.1.4 each time after using L/R bypass in 2.1. Not an issue for me because I don't use 2.1 and would not want to use bypass if and when I do, but good to know the 4700 has the added convenience to switch quickly from one to the other.

Edit: I haven't tried listening critically but there is also no reason for it to "sound" difference even if I leave the configuration always in 7.1.4 when playing 2.1 contents in L/R bypass mode because there won't be any up mixing anyway.

So the remaining question is, we know ADC/DAC would by bypassed in direct model, stereo mode with no bass management applied, but we can's say for sure if ADC/DAC would still be bypassed in Stereo mode L/R bypassed. If it does, then there may be benefits for those who doesn't want their FL/FR Eq'ed but do what the subwoofer Eq'ed.

I can probably get an answer from Marantz again on that, and ask the same on the Audyssey FAQ site as well.

Or, we can try to convince Amir to a test next time he gets a Denon or Marantz.

 

[tparm]

Thank you, in my case I have to reconfigure it back to 7.1.4 each time after using L/R bypass in 2.1. Not an issue for me because I don't use 2.1 and would not want to use bypass if and when I do, but good to know the 4700 has the added convenience to switch quickly from one to the other.

Edit: I haven't tried listening critically but there is also no reason for it to "sound" difference even if I leave the configuration always in 7.1.4 when playing 2.1 contents in L/R bypass mode because there won't be any up mixing anyway.

So the remaining question is, we know ADC/DAC would by bypassed in direct model, stereo mode with no bass management applied, but we can's say for sure if ADC/DAC would still be bypassed in Stereo mode L/R bypassed. If it does, then there may be benefits for those who doesn't want their FL/FR Eq'ed but do what the subwoofer Eq'ed.

I can probably get an answer from Marantz again on that, and ask the same on the Audyssey FAQ site as well.

Or, we can try to convince Amir to a test next time he gets a Denon or Marantz.

This would be valuable intel!

 

[Dennis_FL]

I have a Marantz 6013 and if I’m reading this correctly, I can wire my sub to LFE and use Pure Direct and still get bass management without Audyssey? Then use REW for room correction? Or I can elect Audyssey with digital DSP. Right?

I‘m a little foggy on how this works.

i currently have the sub wired with high pass

 

[Flageborg]

I have a Denon 4306 and my turntable is connected to my Sonos Connect Line-In and routed to my Denon via Coax1 and Audyssey makes my bad/small room perfect for listening...with CO at 80Hz and Front Speakers set to Small...

 

[franknorris12]

Just had a question and thought to use this thread as I'm using a Denon 4700h. I have an external Emotiva XPA power amp so don't use any of the Denon's internal amps.

For 2 channel music using an external DAC I understand based on this thread and other research that by using the CD input on the Denon, I can effectively passthrough the analogue signal without any conversion processing and that by using Direct, it will still engage my sub at the xo. (For 2 channel music, I keep my speakers set to small with xo to sub at 60hz)

My question is that if my set-up is as follows, does the Freya S add any advantages (i.e. in 1x or 4x gain and leaving the Freya S set to max volume, so the Denon is just a volume control and pass over to sub at xo in Direct mode: USB source >> Yggdrasil >> Freya S (max vol) >> CD input on Denon 4700h (in Direct mode) >> Emotiva Power amp? This allows me to not have to use a switcher essentially.

I can do this same set up without the Freya S but any advantages to using a Freya S in the chain please?

 

[peng]

Just had a question and thought to use this thread as I'm using a Denon 4700h. I have an external Emotiva XPA power amp so don't use any of the Denon's internal amps.

For 2 channel music using an external DAC I understand based on this thread and other research that by using the CD input on the Denon, I can effectively passthrough the analogue signal without any conversion processing and that by using Direct, it will still engage my sub at the xo. (For 2 channel music, I keep my speakers set to small with xo to sub at 60hz)

My question is that if my set-up is as follows, does the Freya S add any advantages (i.e. in 1x or 4x gain and leaving the Freya S set to max volume, so the Denon is just a volume control and pass over to sub at xo in Direct mode: USB source >> Yggdrasil >> Freya S (max vol) >> CD input on Denon 4700h (in Direct mode) >> Emotiva Power amp? This allows me to not have to use a switcher essentially.

I can do this same set up without the Freya S but any advantages to using a Freya S in the chain please?

It does not matter if you use CD input or another analog input, the signal path will be the same. In order to bypass the A to D and then D to A conversion, you have to select direct or pure direct mode. Based on Amir's test, if you select "stereo mode", as long as you don't use any bass management function and Audyssey, the signal may till bypass the ADC/DAC block but it is simpler to just use direct or pure direct.

The way you describe it, I don't see why you would put the Freya S in the path. Unless you have to do it for a good reason, it would be better to leave it alone to avoid adding distortions and noise. That's just my opinion.

 

[franknorris12]

It does not matter if you use CD input or another analog input, the signal path will be the same. In order to bypass the A to D and then D to A conversion, you have to select direct or pure direct mode. Based on Amir's test, if you select "stereo mode", as long as you don't use any bass management function and Audyssey, the signal may till bypass the ADC/DAC block but it is simpler to just use direct or pure direct.

The way you describe it, I don't see why you would put the Freya S in the path. Unless you have to do it for a good reason, it would be better to leave it alone to avoid adding distortions and noise. That's just my opinion.

I suppose it's mainly as I want to have the Nexus & 4x gain benefits (i.e. deeper soundstage etc). But I'll try it with and without and see how it sounds, was curious if would add any benefit or just noise & distortion

 

[Dennis_FL]

It does not matter if you use CD input or another analog input, the signal path will be the same. In order to bypass the A to D and then D to A conversion, you have to select direct or pure direct mode. Based on Amir's test, if you select "stereo mode", as long as you don't use any bass management function and Audyssey, the signal may till bypass the ADC/DAC block but it is simpler to just use direct or pure direct.

The way you describe it, I don't see why you would put the Freya S in the path. Unless you have to do it for a good reason, it would be better to leave it alone to avoid adding distortions and noise. That's just my opinion.

Do you know if volume control is digital?

 

[AnalogSteph]

Usually not... it's generally a multichannel PGA with tone / loudness functions, Renesas something or other.

 

[franknorris12]

So the main question then is, if I use an external DAC (e.g. Yggdrasil) into the Denon CD input and use Direct mode with an external Emotiva XPA Gen power amp, the Denon itself should not be colouring the signal in any way right?

 

[peng]

Do you know if volume control is digital?

For Denon, they use the NJU72343

https://www.nisshinbo-microdevices.co.jp/en/pdf/datasheet/NJU72343_E.pdf

Obviously, the output of that device is analog.

 

[franknorris12]

So the main question then is, if I use an external DAC (e.g. Yggdrasil) into the Denon CD input and use Direct mode with an external Emotiva XPA Gen power amp, the Denon itself should not be colouring the signal in any way right?

Anyone?

 

[amper42]

If you don't want any coloration leave the Denon receiver out of the loop. Try that first and see what you think. You could also use a measurably cleaner amp like the Buckeye NC252MP, NC502MP or Purifi.

 

[Dennis_FL]

Anyone?

That's true.....there will be no room correction or AD/DA conversions in the Denon.

 

[franknorris12]

So to bypass Denon's analog/digital conversion using an analog input signal, do I need to have the speakers set to Large? And then for Bass management, only LFE+Main will work right? If leave the speakers set to small with a xo, it will not bypass the Denon conversion right?

 

[Dennis_FL]

So to bypass Denon's analog/digital conversion using an analog input signal, do I need to have the speakers set to Large? And then for Bass management, only LFE+Main will work right? If leave the speakers set to small with a xo, it will not bypass the Denon conversion right?

Just use direct. And everything is bypassed

i used to fret about the analog to digital and back again….and then I watched a video and I’m not so sure. If you head over to the Audyssey forum here, they claim room correction outweighs any conversion anomolies

 

[franknorris12]

Just use direct. And everything is bypassed

i used to fret about the analog to digital and back again….and then I watched a video and I’m not so sure. If you head over to the Audyssey forum here, they claim room correction outweighs any conversion anomolies

I'm not sure anymore that it's bypassed in any mode - I'll give you my reasons (this is for the 4700 bought 2020):

I tested the analog CD input using a Yggdrasil (fed by PC unison USB) in Direct & Pure Direct (tested it set to Large, then Large with Sub, then Small with Sub).

I A-B'd using the Bluetooth connection to the Denon from my Sony Walkman NWA55 (same flac files as used on my PC through the Yggy).

I am thoroughly disappointed to say I heard practically no difference in either set up. I can only conclude that the Denon is indeed doing something OR the Denon's two channel performance is in fact much better than its reputation suggests.

My last test will be to get a pre-amp for the Yggy and a switcher so I can test the Yggy & preamp without the Denon in the chain and then compare it to the Denon with the Bluetooth walkman.