Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

[Zensō]

It is a step stool from our kitchen. The stands that I have are too tall for this speaker relative to its acoustic center. This stool worked surprisingly well.

You could put little spikey feet on the legs and sell them for $2K per pair.

 

[dfuller]

That , this is achieved without DSP is spectacular feat. One can only wonder how outwordly a full DSP-ed version could be.

I'm not sure what DSP would really add here other than a tick box and digital input capabilities.

 

[MZKM]

I think it’s clear what speakers Amir has to do next:

If they’re good enough for DJ Khalid, they‘re good enough for me:

Or give the wife a scare and ask if she can help get these to the upstairs listening room:

 

[AudioJester]

Curious what the preference score is?

Is the PEQ and other controls on the back useful?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I think it’s clear what speakers Amir has to do next:

If they’re good enough for DJ Khalid, they‘re good enough for me:

Or give the wife a scare and ask if she can help get these to the upstairs listening room:

He loves it

 

[RobL]

There’s a pair on FB marketplace not far from me for CAD$8500 (US$6600). Tempted to tell my wife the golf cart she wants might have to wait…

 

[MZKM]

He loves it View attachment 203689View attachment 203691

He must love them a lot as that’s a smaller model (only 2 waveguided drivers and not 3).

 

[FrantzM]

There’s a pair on FB marketplace not far from me for CAD$8500 (US$6600). Tempted to tell my wife the golf cart she wants might have to wait…

I’d grab it quick. It may not stay at such low price after this review …

 

[F1308]

You could put little spikey feet on the legs and sell them for $2K per pair.

Add his signature and start at $5000...
Each.

 

[jhaider]

Amazing. That exemplary level of performance and the immediate gut reaction is…naja, typisch Neumann.

I guess the real headline is just that: they’ve been making loudspeakers at this level for quite a while. This isn’t exactly a new model, I don’t think. The amps are older designs, the processing analog. And yet!

 

[Sancus]

higher max SPL, less IMD/THD.

There is no evidence that 3-way coaxials have enough IMD for it to be audible relative to THD under any conditions. 2-ways are a different story.

As far as SPL, there's not much difference here. The Genelec has somewhat higher distortion in the mid-bass, but less distortion in the low bass(of course it also has less extension so that is expected). Above the woofer(320hz for the 8361) there is barely any difference, the 8361A actually has lower distortion at 106dB from 500hz-3khz. They both have tweeters that limit with somewhat different profiles(this doesn't matter at all since you are never bottlenecked by tweeter output).

It's probably fair to say the KH420 will play a little louder with subs due to its lower mid-bass distortion, but we are talking 1-2dB at the most. If you really want/need louder for some odd reason, then you should buy something a lot bigger like a W371A or something else with a 12-15" woofer.

I'm not saying that either of these speakers are better! They're equally good IMO with different pros and cons. Which is very impressive for Neumann's engineering since it came out long before the 8361A.

Genelec 8361A 106dB

Spoiler

Neumann KH420 106dB

Spoiler

 

[hardisj]

Obviously M2's have higher bass output. (duh, bigger drivers) 420's have higher 5khz+ output which is a bit surprising for me. I was expecting higher output from compression drivers compared to same sized dome tweeters. Probably, M2's compression drivers are EQ'd to compensate their roll off.

Weeeelllll... Amir's data clearly shows the Neumann has some significant limiting of the HF at high output (or the tweeter is disabled; makes little sense to limit the HF of the tweeter when the point near resonance of the tweeter would be where damage would occur?). I compared them below - using VCad to trace the SPL and load into REW.

So, as far as I'm concerned, we can't make an apples-to-apples comparison because the FR is completely different at those levels. I don't care if the HD is higher or lower; if the FR isn't at least somewhat linear, the entire comparison is null and void.

This is where pitfalls in data occurs. Gotta be careful of the comparisons you make.

 

[Blockader]

There is no evidence that 3-way coaxials have enough IMD for it to be audible relative to THD under any conditions. 2-ways are a different story.

As far as SPL, there's not much difference here. The Genelec has somewhat higher distortion in the mid-bass, but less distortion in the low bass(of course it also has less extension so that is expected). Above the woofer(320hz for the 8361) there is barely any difference, the 8361A actually has lower distortion at 106dB from 500hz-3khz. They both have tweeters that limit with somewhat different profiles(this doesn't matter at all since you are never bottlenecked by tweeter output).

It's probably fair to say the KH420 will play a little louder with subs due to its lower mid-bass distortion, but we are talking 1-2dB at the most. If you really want/need louder for some odd reason, then you should buy something a lot bigger like a W371A or something else with a 12-15" woofer.

I'm not saying that either of these speakers are better! They're equally good IMO with different pros and cons. Which is very impressive for Neumann's engineering since it came out long before the 8361A.

Genelec 8361A 106dB

Spoiler

Neumann KH420 106dB

Spoiler

Genelec 8361 max SPL output(source: soundandrecording.de)

KH 420 max output. (source: fidelity online)

KH 420's are louder up to 10db in treble, 2-6db in mids, around 10db louder in midbass at max 3% distortion.

Genelec 8361's IMD measurements(source: soundandrecording.de)

Neumann KH420's IMD measurements(source: fidelity online)

unfortunately test conditions are not same and it's not accurate to make a decision about their IMD performance based on this data.

 

[Sancus]

KH 420's are louder up to 10db in treble, 2-6db in mids, around 10db louder in midbass at max 3% distortion.

The tweeters both limit around the same level(~100dB) so the max SPL/distortion cannot be calculated above that point. Unless you think it's OK for your FR to be completely wrong. Anyway, for home speakers you're always bottlenecked by the 20-1000hz signal so forget tweeters.

As far as mid-bass goes, you can't just cherry pick your sources and % thresholds. If you look at the S&R tests for each speaker, the absolute max is maybe 7dB(105 vs 112) at 150hz for 3%. Allow 10% and the difference is 2-3dB worst case. So no meaningful difference in output, just somewhat different distortion profiles. If you cherry pick specific frequencies or thresholds you get a misleading comparison. And yes, this is why I don't like those THD max SPL graphs that much.

And below 100hz, the 8361 wins because the KH420 is trying to force a lot of extension out of that woofer with EQ. But that probably makes for a slightly better experience without subs at lower levels. So another tradeoff.

S&R max spl

Spoiler

I mean if you wanna believe the KH420 plays significantly louder in any real situation, that's your business. I made my post because I wouldn't recommend anyone buying this thinking it's gonna play way louder than an 8361. It won't. Find something a lot bigger if you really do need it. You probably don't.

 

[beagleman]

This is fascinating! In my office I have two 310s running with two 750s. Yes, the bass makes your private parts shake. And now we get these incredible speakers for $11k. That include amplification.

So, this makes me wonder again why those who call themselves "audiophiles" avoid speakers like this. Maybe they are more interested in the visual appeal than the sound itself. If they were truly interested in sound, they shouldn't ignore these. Just think about it, the passive FR-30 for $30k or these for $11k! Bewildering.

It is another example of why I have eternal gratitude to ASR, most posters and especially @amirm that they guided me away of stupid and expensive mythology.

To me, I hate to say, just have little interest in powered speakers.
SURE it measures great, and I guess $11K might seem like a decent price to some....
I can really not say anything bad about it.....looks and seems great!

.....though I think I COULD find 2 great subs and 2 great 2 way speakers and Hear audio bliss for at least a few thousand less. (Devils Advocate)

But just not able to get very excited about a powered monitor. I know they have a warranty and all, but Imagine when the electronics break. Just not how I "Want" a speaker to be.

 

[JWAmerica]

Amir needs to start lifting. Tired of hear about how he can't lift <100lbs.

 

[respice finem]

Simply stellar, and probably "endgame" not only for studio, but also for an ambitioned near/midfield home stereo setup, if you can live with the "technical" design. Coming from a KH 310A, I would say, one gets used to any design, with time.

Sidenote: The "60Hz dip" remark in the first diagram seems to have one "0" too much.

 

[oversky]

It is a step stool from our kitchen. The stands that I have are too tall for this speaker relative to its acoustic center. This stool worked surprisingly well.

Do you mean resonance for "surprisingly well" or other acoustic effects?

 

[respice finem]

...But just not able to get very excited about a powered monitor. I know they have a warranty and all, but Imagine when the electronics break. Just not how I "Want" a speaker to be.

I've had the same worries before buying my first active speakers, but, given the Neumann support, I took the plunge anyway, because the pros outweigh the cons by far IMHO. These speakers are not some "exotic breed" which is here today and gone tomorrow, and many work countless hours in studios, without any problem.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Thanks for another great review, @amirm While I love Neumann speakers, the KH420 is definitely on the large size for me. Also, above $5000 and below $8000 there are a few other speakers that look more appealing to me like the Dutch & Dutch 8c and Genelec 8361A.