Audioholics goes off the reservation

[Sancus]

Mesanovic makes a vibration device to fit under their speakers.

Yeah and it's $800 for a pair lol.

Springs seem like the way to go, but how to find the right ones? Maybe these reasonably priced things could work. Or repurposed industrial anti-vibration mounts. The hard part seems to be making sure you get ones that will work for the right weight range.

 

[DSJR]

I was conditioned to use floor spikes for speakers and stands forty years ago (with spike 'shoes' if a nice floor) and at the time, the differences seemed beneficial (I don't *think* it was imagined as it seemed universal for all speakers except maybe the resonant 'thin wall BBC derived' types.

I can't believe how the trend has changed to make speakers 'wobble around,' although one chap living in a flat/apartment had issues before with bass getting through to an elderly neighbour living below him. Some Isopuk style 'decouplers' solved it for him - he's since changed to larger speakers with continued success on the neighbour front.

I've done so many darned speaker dems showing how percussive rock music *appeared* to 'sound clearer' with the speaker bioxes not swaying back and forth on a carpeted floor. I have to be careful of course as I wasn't blindfolded, so can lay my old vibes wide open to question, but spiking the stands to the floor was strong in the UK forty years back, even to the point of inserting cross head screws into a floor board-on-joist situation to try to make it all even more rigid (if the floor was carpeted, it didn't show and removing said screws later on and brushing the pile gently with a stiff brush could cover the holes.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The hard part seems to be making sure you get ones that will work for the right weight range.

It is possible to calculate the required rate using the weight of the speaker and the wanted decoupling frequency.

To do it properly ends up with a very soft wobbly installation, like a well isolated LP player like a Linn LP12.

It seems to disconcert people.

but spiking the stands to the floor was strong in the UK forty years back, even to the point of inserting cross head screws into a floor board-on-joist situation to try to make it all even more rigid (if the floor was carpeted, it didn't show and removing said screws later on and brushing the pile gently with a stiff brush could cover the holes.

The main effect of spikes is to couple the vibrations to the floor.

As long as the cabinet of the speaker isn't very lightweight the idea of the cone causing it to rock back and forth enough to make a difference never had any justification from science, but it was the big deal back then!
Any increase in bass would have been the floor vibrating more not the cabinet rocking less!

 

[Frgirard]

That is the sort of thing which will probably work.
If I am honest the availability of this mount made me take this company, which I hadn't heard of before, more seriously.

Mind you the speakers are still more important than the mount so good speakers mounted simply will be better than mediocre speakers effectively isolated.

If it's works, it's measurable. With what type of measurement ?

 

[DSJR]

As long as the cabinet of the speaker isn't very lightweight the idea of the cone causing it to rock back and forth enough to make a difference never had any justification from science, but it was the big deal back then!
Any increase in bass would have been the floor vibrating more not the cabinet rocking less!

Intermod on the tweeter? No idea, but I experimented with my Isobariks coupling the cab to the wall directly behind (I used a cassette box) and it 'sharpened up' the highs but didn't improve the bass (I used to sit very near-field with them, like a giant set of headphones, such was youthful enthusiasm - small boxes sounded terrible in that small room). Directly coupling these speakers to the floor seemed to improve everything from bottom to top - I was conditioned to it, so who knows if it was brainwashing or not - didn't seem so at the time.

here's me saying the above now, with a pair of thin-wall 2cu thunderboxes sitting on custom lamp tables on well underlaid carpet - who needs expensive decouplers when the carpet does it for you

 

[Frgirard]

Mesanovic makes a vibration device to fit under their speakers.

>We manufacture noise and vibration solutions | AMC Mecanocaucho

We manufacture, design and sell anti-vibration mounts and sound absorbing composites. We combine rubber, spring, Sylomer or other available elastical materials.

www.mecanocaucho.com

 

[Frank Dernie]

If it's works, it's measurable. With what type of measurement ?

Frequency response, of course.
If the speaker needs isolating it is because it is allowing spurious transmission of vibration to the environment causing added output at whatever frequency it is exciting in and around its mounting.

In terms of bass it depends strongly on the room construction but with suspended floors is the addition of floor radiation to that from the speaker, for example. Many people may like the extra

The problem is the same as all FR measurements using a microphone though, it is not possible to separate the contribution if accurate direct radiation from the drivers from the spurious and delayed vibration fro everything else being effected.
Speaker designers use FEA to calculate it, a whole room would be a bit of a challenge in FEA!

 

[Frgirard]

FR response ? but why we don't see something.

 

[charleski]

"What I heard was nothing short of marvelous."

The one thing that really annoys me about subjectivist BS is this reflexive descent into hyperbole at every opportunity. Every change in the system (at least every one that involves spending silly amounts of money) supposedly launches the listener off on a transcendental voyage of revelation.

I can sometimes spot the difference between, say, a well-designed solid-state amp and a tube amp with a mediocre SINAD, but boy, it's subtle and I have to be in the right frame of mind to isolate the differences. I can spot the differences between speakers or headphones with clearly-differing frequency responses, and that's a lot easier. But you can bet your bottom dollar that when an audio reviewer comes out with "the differences were not subtle ... the [soundstage, texture, warmth, whatever] were massively improved," then the chances of you actually hearing any difference are nil.

 

[Trell]

In the accompanying thread to the Audioholics “review” members are not that happy with it.

 

[Somafunk]

It depends what frequency range you wish to isolate.

I worked for gates power transmissions as an elec/mech engineer and part of my job involved resonance isolation of machinery and delicate test equipment, its more involving than throwing sorbothane at a problem.

FWIW : I use and am very happy with my purchase of Isoacoustic ISO monitor and subwoofer stands, saying that I wouldn't pay that much for Gaia speaker isolation

 

[Somafunk]

I was conditioned to use floor spikes for speakers and stands forty years ago

Spikes is one hifi phoo belief that seems to taken as gospel, I never understood that one.

 

[pozz]

Here are some FR measurements: https://isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-testing-at-the-national-research-council-of-canada-nrc/

Underwhelming, to say the least.

 

[Everett T]

Originally bought into the proclaimed promise of AH, but has been a few years and have to agree it seems to falling shy of its original charter.

Recently went there to read a speaker review and was greeted by a popup of Gene selling audio consults. Pretty sure you will find better advice here for free!

I shied away when politics started getting in the way of the hobby. When owner/operators force their political beliefs on their members, it creates unnecessary splits. There are some extremely knowledgeable members there and good advice to be given and had. I appreciated the orginal concept of objective over subjective too and was able to navigate around the distractions, unfortunately that has shifted. I'll still read speaker and electronics reviews, peruse the foru, but won't participate as of now.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into a flame war.

 

[Everett T]

Spikes is one hifi phoo belief that seems to taken as gospel, I never understood that one.

Decoupling speakers can be beneficial, it's just not a simple yes or no, as it depends on various factors.

 

[ctrl]

Here are some FR measurements: https://isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-testing-at-the-national-research-council-of-canada-nrc/
...
Underwhelming, to say the least.

I miss the measurement of vibrations where the speaker is simply placed on the floor - why is this measurement missing?

Anyone who needs "high-tech" insulators should go to the tennis court and ask the players for their old balls (I know what you're thinking). Cut the four tennis balls in half and place the half shells under the speakers.
Or glue four half-shells on a wooden board or between two wooden boards....
The possibilities are endless and cost you less then 10$.

 

[Somafunk]

Im surprised no enterprising company hasn't come with electronically controlled fluid damped isolation cartridges, similar to modern sports cars. Or even a small hydraulically dampened footer that you use under speaker cabinets.

I may have to tinker in the garage..........

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

The one thing that really annoys me about subjectivist BS is this reflexive descent into hyperbole at every opportunity. Every change in the system (at least every one that involves spending silly amounts of money) supposedly launches the listener off on a transcendental voyage of revelation.

I can sometimes spot the difference between, say, a well-designed solid-state amp and a tube amp with a mediocre SINAD, but boy, it's subtle and I have to be in the right frame of mind to isolate the differences. I can spot the differences between speakers or headphones with clearly-differing frequency responses, and that's a lot easier. But you can bet your bottom dollar that when an audio reviewer comes out with "the differences were not subtle ... the [soundstage, texture, warmth, whatever] were massively improved," then the chances of you actually hearing any difference are nil.

Pretty much yep. It's almost guaranteed the revealed "new vistas of detail and musicality" are in fact the sort of differences that, if you didn't know something was different, you'd never ever notice anything was different.

 

[Frank Dernie]

FR response ? but why we don't see something.

If you don't then obviously in your installation the excitation of your environmental by speaker vibration is not significant.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I miss the measurement of vibrations where the speaker is simply placed on the floor - why is this measurement missing?

Anyone who needs "high-tech" insulators should go to the tennis court and ask the players for their old balls (I know what you're thinking). Cut the four tennis balls in half and place the half shells under the speakers.
Or glue four half-shells on a wooden board or between two wooden boards....
The possibilities are endless and cost you less then 10$.

The frequency bandwidth of the effectiveness of a Tennis ball cut in half (or anything else) depends on the weight of the speaker you want to isolate.
Roughly speaking if you want to isolate over the full range of audio frequencies the elastic deflection of the isolator will need to be around 20mm under the weight of the item to be isolated.