Audioholics goes off the reservation

[Frank Dernie]

Decoupling speakers can be beneficial, it's just not a simple yes or no, as it depends on various factors.

Indeed but spikes couple not decouple.
There has been a lot of balderdash written about spikes as de-coupling. Maybe electronics engineers are confused by the spike's similarity to a diode symbol??

 

[Somafunk]

Indeed but spikes couple not decouple.

Seems obvious doesn't it but unfortunately I still see spikes everywhere in hi-fi furniture and speaker stands. I learned this the hard way many years ago when I rose jointed and used high durometer suspension bushes on my MK2 Golf track car, fantastic handling but you wouldn't want to drive it on anything other than a track.

This'll amuse a few of you , I treat the rubber sleeves in my isoacoustic stands with silicone spray every so often to aid in independent and stiction free movement as they can become rather stiff and inert.

 

[JayGilb]

Indeed but spikes couple not decouple.

I would imagine they couple the same amount of energy, but to a smaller area ???

 

[Somafunk]

I would imagine they couple the same amount of energy, but to a smaller footprint ???

Or transfer resonance and vibration

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Yeah I had the spikes back in the 80s. But now when I think bout it, I imagine it focusing any vibration energy down to those 4 points such that enough vibration would cause them to drill into the floor. lol. Like how a wave of light is soft and harmless but focused into a point it's a laser.

I have a half inch slab of that dense shipping foam between each speaker and the top of the stands. My stands are tripods and the bottom of each leg is about an inch in diameter with a piece of furniture felt stuck on it. Maybe a buck a side total lol. Speakers are just DBR62s so not big mofos or anything and I don't notice any vibration issues at all so I think It works fine.

 

[Zensō]

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Then they decided to go after the audiophile market and upped their prices dramatically. Why is it that so many products targeted at audiophiles are so ridiculously overpriced? $1K-2K for isolation feet, come on.

As for Audioholics, I suppose it’s difficult to keep manufacturer-friendly bias out of reviews when your paycheck depends upon it.

 

[Somafunk]

Why is it that so many products targeted at audiophiles are so ridiculously overpriced? $1K-2K for isolation feet, come on.

Take a functional design, dip it in glitter and polish that turd all the way to the bank.

I am anti-audiophile, I’d take offence if anyone called me such a thing. I like listening to music, thats all.

 

[ctrl]

Roughly speaking if you want to isolate over the full range of audio frequencies the elastic deflection of the isolator will need to be around 20mm under the weight of the item to be isolated.

If my memory does not deceive me, this comes out quite well for a floorstanding speaker.
Otherwise, you can fill the half shells with additional material or for bookshelf speakers, you would probably have to use an additional steel or stone plate.

 

[Inner Space]

Surely the decision whether to spike or isolate is a second-order question, not first-order. The operating principle of a moving-coil loudspeaker is that the coil should move and the magnet shouldn't. Thus, per Newton, to couple the magnet to a viable mechanical ground is theoretically immaculate.

But the first-order question is, can you find a viable mechanical ground in your room? E.g., in one location I have a concrete floor locked to about a million tons of rock and dirt. In another, the floor is suspended timber, which acts like a giant tympanum. So I spike in one room and isolate in the other.

 

[Rottmannash]

Frequency response, of course.
If the speaker needs isolating it is because it is allowing spurious transmission of vibration to the environment causing added output at whatever frequency it is exciting in and around its mounting.

In terms of bass it depends strongly on the room construction but with suspended floors is the addition of floor radiation to that from the speaker, for example. Many people may like the extra

The problem is the same as all FR measurements using a microphone though, it is not possible to separate the contribution if accurate direct radiation from the drivers from the spurious and delayed vibration fro everything else being effected.
Speaker designers use FEA to calculate it, a whole room would be a bit of a challenge in FEA!

What is Stereophile measuring when they do speaker measurements and use an acceleromoter against the speaker cabinet?

 

[Rottmannash]

I shied away when politics started getting in the way of the hobby. When owner/operators force their political beliefs on their members, it creates unnecessary splits. There are some extremely knowledgeable members there and good advice to be given and had. I appreciated the orginal concept of objective over subjective too and was able to navigate around the distractions, unfortunately that has shifted. I'll still read speaker and electronics reviews, peruse the foru, but won't participate as of now.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into a flame war.

Politics? I once was a regular reader of that forum but since finding ASR don't go there much anymore. Didn't know the forum had taken a political stance.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I can understand being disappointed they didn't provide measurements, but that above seems a bit of a leap, without any other confirming evidence than being disappointed with the lack of measurements.

If you have found them generally fair minded for so long, why not the benefit of the doubt?

I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. I said only the camel nose is in the tent. I also said one time in 10 years is not a big deal. It is just surprising. I'm just letting you know.

 

[Trell]

Politics? I once was a regular reader of that forum but since finding ASR don't go there much anymore. Didn't know the forum had taken a political stance.

It doesn’t unless calling it political when someone is banned for condoning murder or violence.

 

[Rottmannash]

It doesn’t unless calling it political when someone is banned for condoning murder or violence.

I was hoping @Everett T would elaborate on what he meant.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I would imagine they couple the same amount of energy, but to a smaller area ???

For vibration transmission the location and stiffness of the coupling is what determines the nature and frequency range of the transmission, at any "energy" level.

 

[Frank Dernie]

What is Stereophile measuring when they do speaker measurements and use an acceleromoter against the speaker cabinet?

Cabinet vibration at a single location. It gives an idea if the cabinet is likely to be making a bit of random addition but the real way to know is to analyse the radiation of all 6 surfaces and add it to the total. I know speaker designers do it but I am not aware of a reviewer who would be able to obtain the necessary mechanical properties of the materials and junctions to model the cabinet adequately even if they had the software to do the calculation.
We are therefore stuck with the cabinet construction contribution inseparable from that of the drive units on the measurements we see.
If there are resonances they will be visible on FR plots, if it is just broadband cabinet "singing along" we won't.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I checked on Audioholics and there is a nice (so far) catfight between the subjectivists and the objectivists in the forum section over the SNAKE OIL, BS product of Gaia feet for speakers. As always, someone measures something at such a low level that you could make it ten times larger and it would still not be audible. Then they make a BS product and charge unbelievable prices claiming it "tested" and reduced vibrations. Still the product has nothing for audio products. NO effect that is audible at all. Toe in/out, general speaker placement and auto-eq will have 1000 times the effect of any Gaia products and way cheaper too, most for free!

 

[MarcT]

I have heard these at shows. You have to be careful in testing them as they change the height of the speaker and hence, its frequency response. I always try to slouch lower in my seat to compensate for the height difference and in doing so, the difference vanishes.

Yes, I've also heard these at audio shows, usually with Focal tower speakers. They do seem to change the sound a bit, but like you say, they raise the speakers about an inch.

 

[DSJR]

Spikes is one hifi phoo belief that seems to taken as gospel, I never understood that one.

Did you ever try it, using drum laden rock or percussive jazz as a music source? Believe me, it was never 'foo/phoo' at the time and if I used conventional speaker stands on my next speakers, they'd be spiked or if a nice floor in danger of scratching, I'd use adjustable equipment feet at least to prevent rocking... I honestly believe it was more than brainwashing, but I do accept that speakers with resonant cabinets (such as many/most 'BBC thin-wall' types) or some panel types with less rigid frames, may not make any difference subjectively.

 

[NTK]

Did you ever try it, using drum laden rock or percussive jazz as a music source? Believe me, it was never 'foo/phoo' at the time and if I used conventional speaker stands on my next speakers, they'd be spiked or if a nice floor in danger of scratching, I'd use adjustable equipment feet at least to prevent rocking... I honestly believe it was more than brainwashing, but I do accept that speakers with resonant cabinets (such as many/most 'BBC thin-wall' types) or some panel types with less rigid frames, may not make any difference subjectively.

Interesting that neither the JBL M2 nor the Genelec W371A have spikes.