What do floor standers really bring to the table?

[Ultrasonic]

but that is not realy the bass we are feeling right? the bass that I feel is not air induced, but I feel it on my feet (floor) and in my couch

Personally I do think we feel airborne low frequency sound.

 

[PierreV]

but that is not realy the bass we are feeling right? the bass that I feel is not air induced, but I feel it on my feet (floor) and in my couch

When I was young and more stupid than even now, I loved the gut massage one would get standing in front of those Cerwin-Vega boxes

 

[dasdoing]

Personally I do think we feel airborne low frequency sound.

let me correct what I said:
it's not the main part of it

 

[dasdoing]

When I was young and more stupid than even now, I loved the gut massage one would get standing in front of those Cerwin-Vega boxes

as I said above, I actualy felt it when the sub was behind the couch

 

[Destination: Moon]

I still insist, the answer to OP's question should be contained in the difference between these two:
View attachment 159898

And here's the sum of it:
View attachment 159900

In the sense that all other differences are removed so we're talking only about the property of floor-standing as the sole difference. Here we could see precisely what towers bring to table.

Now we need Erin or Amir to analyze them

 

[Galliardist]

Why buy expensive speakers with 90 % of the music produced now is bad : the loudness war.

I don’t deny the loudness war but I’d say that is a huge exaggeration. A lot of reduced DR remasters are not so much compressed as much as they have instruments panned closer to the edge of the stereo image, and restored stereo bass.

For these recordings, speaker setups that can handle the improved bass and with good lateral imaging will give improved results.

The really bad releases are another matter of course, but I’m not sure it comes to 90%. I may just be lucky in my choice of music, of course…

 

[DanielT]

What is the difference, between a pair of floorstanding and two subwoofers and on them two bookshelf speakers, for example see picture It can then become a three way speaker. If now they fit together. To figure it out, it is the small aspect that you then in practice need to become a speaker designer.If you want a well-integrated solution sub-bookshelf that sound good.

There will be many measurements and calculations. If you think it's fun and rewarding.

Or you buy a finished floorstanding three way developed by professionals.

The speakers in the pictures are chosen at random, the first ones that appeared when I googled, just to exemplify the challenge.

 

[storing]

let me correct what I said:
it's not the main part of it

I think that really depends on the situation. At home: probably not. Standing in front of a speaker wall meant for bass-heavy electronic music: not so sure. Would have to measure that somehow, but if you can feel it hit your chest then wouldn't it mainly be airborne? Which isn't that surprising, given physics. As in: I found it a bit surprising seeing some reluctancy here, after all hearing itself works mainly via vibrating body parts, so why wouldn't that apply to other parts as well given the situation is right?

 

[Ultrasonic]

let me correct what I said:
it's not the main part of it

How much is felt through the floor will depend on the construction but in my room I think it's airborne that is dominant.

 

[bravomail]

Aside from higher SPLs, what real listening advantage do towers have over the better measuring bookshelfs, if any?

u can put bigger woofers in them. they will take up more space. Thru clever design you can have better bass ports. I bought mine because bookshelves r overpriced right now (A130 vs A170). Thank u ASR!

 

[bluefuzz]

Why buy expensive speakers with 90 % of the music produced now is bad : the loudness war.

Because we have 100+ years of recorded music to listen to? And it's really only a tiny fraction of mostly top 40 pop of the last couple of decades that is really compromised by the 'loudness wars'. Plenty of other things to listen to ...

 

[Frgirard]

Because we have 100+ years of recorded music to listen to? And it's really only a tiny fraction of mostly top 40 pop of the last couple of decades that is really compromised by the 'loudness wars'. Plenty of other things to listen to ...

If you find mono recording good, all is possible.
Why buy expensive speakers for a use in a living room, the worst room?

 

[killdozzer]

If you find mono recording good, all is possible.
Why buy expensive speakers for a use in a living room, the worst room?

Why join this forum?

(Sorry, I had to. You just inspired me!
)

 

[killdozzer]

I don’t deny the loudness war but I’d say that is a huge exaggeration. A lot of reduced DR remasters are not so much compressed as much as they have instruments panned closer to the edge of the stereo image, and restored stereo bass.

For these recordings, speaker setups that can handle the improved bass and with good lateral imaging will give improved results.

The really bad releases are another matter of course, but I’m not sure it comes to 90%. I may just be lucky in my choice of music, of course…

Because we have 100+ years of recorded music to listen to? And it's really only a tiny fraction of mostly top 40 pop of the last couple of decades that is really compromised by the 'loudness wars'. Plenty of other things to listen to ...

My thoughts exactly. I wanted to say this, but I thought... I understand the guy. He is just blowing off steam same as I do many times. But I also think it's an exaggeration. Loudness wars, no matter how bad they may be, are not an hifi issue since they concern Justin Bieber and Ariana Grande. Who gives a fuck. The most we suffer from loudness wars is when you see many producers think their job is to compress everything when making a remaster, so, even if a remaster could indeed improve on an original recording, they often don't.

But some remasters really do justice to the original material and if you don't like a compressed remaster, stick with the the version you were listening thus far until a better copy is released.

Many recordings are outside this silly fad in all musical genres.

 

[bluefuzz]

If you find mono recording good, all is possible.
Why buy expensive speakers for a use in a living room, the worst room?

Why find the most negative interpretation possible of any and every statement in any thread you participate in?

Why bother getting up in the morning ...?

 

[Trdat]

I wasn't talking about speakers like the above, but I bet that my four 18" subs, each in an 8 cubic foot cabinet would beat the bass shit out of that Wilson and leave it as roadkill. No brag, just fact.

Now, that's what I like to hear(read) pardon the pun four 18 inch subs in 8 cubic feet cabinets.

I have horn CD and 15inch for my mains which roll off like a closed box and still have 4 12 inch subs DSPed flat with two of them in a 60 litre cabinet(driver designed for small enclosures 30 litres) with powerful drivers can't wait to upgrade the other two to the same.

A system is not a system without multiple powerful subs. I am not one of the experts in the forum so I leave it the likes of you to put forward the point but I absolutely do not understand how a sound system can do without subs even if the floor standers can play low. So many elements that the subs can mitigate and/or add to, envelopment, slam, room modes, distortion etc etc that a pair of bass drivers in a floorstander in the middle of the room just can't do.

Edit: Now, I am adding flanking subs(trial) receiving the same signal as the 15 inch mids but with a low pass and with a roll off like a closed box. So essentially, 6 subwoofers.

 

[Ultrasonic]

What is the difference, between a pair of floorstanding and two subwoofers and on them two bookshelf speakers, for example see picture It can then become a three way speaker. If now they fit together. To figure it out, it is the small aspect that you then in practice need to become a speaker designer.If you want a well-integrated solution sub-bookshelf that sound good.

There will be many measurements and calculations. If you think it's fun and rewarding.

Or you buy a finished floorstanding three way developed by professionals.

The speakers in the pictures are chosen at random, the first ones that appeared when I googled, just to exemplify the challenge.

An important distinction here is that I believe most (if not all) of those advocating subwoofer use in this thread have been doing so up to at most ~100 Hz. The point being to restrict their use to where they can be placed optimally in the room for bass performance rather than being tied to the same location as the higher frequency drivers. In a typical 3-way loudspeaker the lowest frequency driver will cover up to something more like 300-500 Hz I think, so a standmount sitting directly on top of a subwoofer is not the same thing.

A follow on from this is that it is easier to integrate one of more subwoofers that just run at the lowest frequencies than it would be to try to integrate a driver operating up to higher-bass/lower-mid frquencies. Subwoofer integration is not as complicated as loudspeaker design.

Another important point here is that the <100 Hz region is one where the room has a dominant effect in basically all typically sized domestic rooms. As such, no matter how 'perfect' the design of a floorstanding speaker may be, some degree of adjustment/correction in this area is in order for the best results. Subwoofer use and integration/optimisation is a part of this in my book. Yes it is more work to integrate a subwoofer than to just use floorstanding speakers, but in most cases the point is to achieve something better as a result.

 

[Trdat]

By with your speakers you mean next to them or you tried various positions in the room for the subs to work best? Bass management was employed?

Yes and yes. (DSP via Dspeaker Anti Mode Dual Core 2). (JL subs, spec'd to 25Hz)

I went through this on another thread so won't repeat myself. Basically I found little audible benefit to adding the subs in terms of noticeable bass extension, "lack of strain," or anything much, really. A slightly flatter frequency response in the bass, but I preferred the sound of my speakers without the subs. Others may take things further in terms of the technical aspects and effort (I'm often amazed how much time and effort some people spend on integrating subwoofers! Like a part time job!). It was as far as I was willing to go for trying out subwoofers and the effort involved. That's why I mentioned YMMV.

I went through the same phase as well, enjoying the transients of my 8inch in my bookshelfs. I suspect that the perhaps the slow roll off and lack of longer wavelengths does provide a percieved improvement in sound(without subs). But once you add powerful subwoofers with drivers that can keep up with intense bass and time align them with minumim 3 subs then its a different ballgame.

My phase was due to my dual subs being entry level and light cabinets and not yet able to perfect my DSP.

I think my point is that, I understand that feeling of how adding subs distorts(whichever way it does for your application) the mains and you don't end up getting what your after. I had that for years it is a difficult stumbling block and if your mains can give you enough bass than striving for subs to integrate well is a big effort like you said. Im one of those who spent years trying to perfect it and ultimately achieved it.

 

[DanielT]

Subwoofer integration is not as complicated as loudspeaker design.
.

I exaggerated, I must add. It depends on (which you mention), where in frequency you divide between sub-satellites. Plus dB level regarding the division. If you use subs as base boxes that go up more than 200 Hz so..but then it is not really a subwoffer... No, I'm taking back what I wrote in that previous post. I thought a little wrong. Sorry.

Nodes, placement of sub, how many sub, EQ however there something to take into account.

 

[Chromatischism]

There will be many measurements and calculations. If you think it's fun and rewarding.

The pain is worth the gain, my friend.