I am attempting to start this (hopefully) civil discussion in a non-confrontational manner, because I want to take a practical approach to evaluating internet-marketed mini-amplifiers, and not encourage rants or put-downs of purveyors of cheap audio gear and their products - although many of them deserve such a reaction. It is nearly impossible to find "honest" power ratings for many of the new breed of chip-amps compared to offerings from more "traditional" high-end and so-called "mid-fi" audio manufacturers. Respected mainstream and audiophile high-end niche manufacturers have historically been pretty good about publishing the details of the output of their products, but many "cheap" amplifier manufacturers have published misleading ratings for many decades. The current deluge of cheap Chinese-made amps continues that tradition of deception. What is marketed as an 80w amplifier by many vendors in that sector is most often not even in the same league as an 80w amplifier from a respectable amplifier manufacturer.
This is the $200 (Amazon price) Topping TP60 "80wpc" amplifier (11.95lbs shipping weight)...
... which has an internal linear power supply with two toroidal transformers. One of these amps is on its way to Amir and I assume will be thoroughly tested. On the surface, it appears as though it might be one of the better options in the mini-amp field. Amir's testing should confirm or disconfirm that entirely subjective opinion.
And the $105 Topping PA3 "80w" amp (2.73 lb shipping weight)...
...is on the way to me in Panama. The PA3 normally sells for $105 on Amazon, but I was able to buy one for $84 on a "one-day special" discount. Like the TP60, the PA3 also has an 80w rating, but uses an external "brick" style switching power supply. As you will see from the below response I got from Topping, the design is apparently is not as "robust" as that of the TP60. It seems that at 4Ω, the PA3 will overheat and cannot operate continously at 1% or less THD & noise, the generally accepted minimum distortion level to qualify as a "high fidelity" amplifier.
Topping appears to be one of the best manufacturers of inexpensive DACs based on Amir's testing and reporting on the Topping D10, D30 and D50 and their DAC/headphone amps. In their amplifier marketing, however, I assume that Topping needs to play the "watts game," because that is a necessity to survive in a market segment with a large percentage of unsophisticated mass-market customers/consumers. I just wanted to find out a bit more detail about the "proper" power ratings, which are seldom if ever, published in the advertising of this market segment. The fact that Topping even responded, considering that the answer contains a big negative, is surprising and much appreciated.
So it appears that currently, Topping is not ahead of the pack with mini-Class-D amp like they are with their DACs. But who knows - they might respond to criticism and "do the right thing." I do not regret my decision to buy a PA3, and will place it in my system and play with it when it gets here - probably in one week, and report on my experiences. Although I expect the PA3 to drive my 8Ω Paradigm Atom monitors adequately in my small, low-ceiling living/kitchen room, I will still probably upgrade to a Hypex Ncore amp eventually - if and when I can afford it. I would then keep the Topping PA3 for desktop use and backup duty.
Below is the email exchange that prompted me to start this thread, and I did tell Topping that I would discuss their response here at ASR. But I didn't wait to buy the PA3 as indicated in my email message because of the one day sale I stumbled upon at Amazon.
---------------------------------------------------------
On 7/18/2018 13:09,David Van Harn wrote to Topping:
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
-------------------
Response from Topping:
Dear David
Here's test results. We use resistance as load and test.
PA3(8ohm):
L: 56.51W(RMS), THD+N 0.99%
R: 56.58W(RMS), THD+N 1.01%
PA3(4ohm):
NA, because PA3 overheat before THD+N reach 1%
TP60(8ohm):
L: 68.30W(RMS), THD+N 1.01%
R: 68.70W(RMS), THD+N 1.06%
TP60(4ohm):
L: 54.54W(RMS), THD+N 1.02%
R: 55.08W(RMS), THD+N 1.05%
Due to individual differences, another product should be different from my test, but it will not be much different.
Best Regards!
Hailin Huang
TOPPING sales manager
26th Jiaomen Road
Huangge Town, Nansha, Guangzhou, China
Zip code: 511455
This is the $200 (Amazon price) Topping TP60 "80wpc" amplifier (11.95lbs shipping weight)...
... which has an internal linear power supply with two toroidal transformers. One of these amps is on its way to Amir and I assume will be thoroughly tested. On the surface, it appears as though it might be one of the better options in the mini-amp field. Amir's testing should confirm or disconfirm that entirely subjective opinion.
And the $105 Topping PA3 "80w" amp (2.73 lb shipping weight)...
...is on the way to me in Panama. The PA3 normally sells for $105 on Amazon, but I was able to buy one for $84 on a "one-day special" discount. Like the TP60, the PA3 also has an 80w rating, but uses an external "brick" style switching power supply. As you will see from the below response I got from Topping, the design is apparently is not as "robust" as that of the TP60. It seems that at 4Ω, the PA3 will overheat and cannot operate continously at 1% or less THD & noise, the generally accepted minimum distortion level to qualify as a "high fidelity" amplifier.
Topping appears to be one of the best manufacturers of inexpensive DACs based on Amir's testing and reporting on the Topping D10, D30 and D50 and their DAC/headphone amps. In their amplifier marketing, however, I assume that Topping needs to play the "watts game," because that is a necessity to survive in a market segment with a large percentage of unsophisticated mass-market customers/consumers. I just wanted to find out a bit more detail about the "proper" power ratings, which are seldom if ever, published in the advertising of this market segment. The fact that Topping even responded, considering that the answer contains a big negative, is surprising and much appreciated.
So it appears that currently, Topping is not ahead of the pack with mini-Class-D amp like they are with their DACs. But who knows - they might respond to criticism and "do the right thing." I do not regret my decision to buy a PA3, and will place it in my system and play with it when it gets here - probably in one week, and report on my experiences. Although I expect the PA3 to drive my 8Ω Paradigm Atom monitors adequately in my small, low-ceiling living/kitchen room, I will still probably upgrade to a Hypex Ncore amp eventually - if and when I can afford it. I would then keep the Topping PA3 for desktop use and backup duty.
Below is the email exchange that prompted me to start this thread, and I did tell Topping that I would discuss their response here at ASR. But I didn't wait to buy the PA3 as indicated in my email message because of the one day sale I stumbled upon at Amazon.
---------------------------------------------------------
On 7/18/2018 13:09,David Van Harn wrote to Topping:
Topping has an excellent reputation, and your DACs have tested very well at AudioScienceReview.com. Your products are described as being very well made with high quality components and hardware. However, "Maximum power at 10% distortion" is not a very useful specification for amplifiers, and does not allow a fair comparison with traditional audio amplifiers from established manufacturers.
I am an audio enthusiast with over 50 years experience, and I would like to know the RMS power ratings for continuous output at 1% or less harmonic distortion for the PA3 and TP60 amplifiers. Then I will decide if I want to buy one of those products and a Topping D50 DAC via Amazon and have it shipped to me in Panama, where I live as a retired American expatriate.
I will discuss your response at the AudioScienceReview.com forums, and I hope that you can provide me with honest and accurate information. Soon, the owner of that website will be testing the TP60 amplifier that he has recently ordered. This is an opportunity for you to confirm your company's reputation for clear and honest communication about specifications.
David van Harn Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
-------------------
Response from Topping:
Dear David
Here's test results. We use resistance as load and test.
PA3(8ohm):
L: 56.51W(RMS), THD+N 0.99%
R: 56.58W(RMS), THD+N 1.01%
PA3(4ohm):
NA, because PA3 overheat before THD+N reach 1%
TP60(8ohm):
L: 68.30W(RMS), THD+N 1.01%
R: 68.70W(RMS), THD+N 1.06%
TP60(4ohm):
L: 54.54W(RMS), THD+N 1.02%
R: 55.08W(RMS), THD+N 1.05%
Due to individual differences, another product should be different from my test, but it will not be much different.
Best Regards!
Hailin Huang
TOPPING sales manager
26th Jiaomen Road
Huangge Town, Nansha, Guangzhou, China
Zip code: 511455