Dutch & Dutch 8Cs

[Burning Sounds]

Why do they do that?!!! Any crappy speaker can make electronic pulse sounds - even those in cars driven by 17-year olds. Few speakers can produce a clear window on an acoustic space. They should be showing that off to maximum advantage.

Indeed! The dealer was quite engaging and knowlegeable, but I don't understand their choice of room decor either. If I'd have not known about the 8Cs I might have ignored the room as it had black drapes on the wall and blue leds strung about the place and blue uplighters. Why they felt the need to make it feel like a club I don't know. But then again I'm just an old bloke who hasn't frequented dance clubs in a long time.

 

[kaka89]

All of the 8Cs parameters are set by app, even the volume can be adjusted via the app, you still need a source of course either digital or analogue!
Keith

If I understand correctly the app is more like a "webpage"... I am not going to use it daily.

Ideally, the source 8C needs is a DDC *with remote and volume control*, covert all digital signal to AES. I don't know does such product exist on the market because is it not a common need.

I have a RME ADI2-DAC and if I have a 8C, I will have to use the analog in even though it means extra DAC is involved. And maybe it is better to do volume control in RME, this product is technically so good.

 

[andrew]

If I understand correctly the app is more like a "webpage"... I am not going to use it daily.

Ideally, the source 8C needs is a DDC *with remote and volume control*, covert all digital signal to AES. I don't know does such product exist on the market because is it not a common need.

I have a RME ADI2-DAC and if I have a 8C, I will have to use the analog in even though it means extra DAC is involved. And maybe it is better to do volume control in RME, this product is technically so good.

See Pre-Amp for active digital / analogue speakers . I'm using a mini-DSP DDRC-22d which, whilst not being the most "audiophile" of components, it does allow for overall room correction

 

[kaka89]

Good idea, but minidsp-22d is missing USB input that I need.

By the way, shouldn't the 8C already have room correction handled already? Do I still need minidsp?

 

[Purité Audio]

I use both RME ADI-PRO/2 units with mine , the ‘pro’ can send a digital signal but doesn’t have a remote.
I can’t hear any difference between sending a digital or analogue signal .
The 8C has 21 in-built EQ filters.
Keith

 

[oivavoi]

Good idea, but minidsp-22d is missing USB input that I need.

By the way, shouldn't the 8C already have room correction handled already? Do I still need minidsp?

The new SHD studio from Minidsp seems to tick all the boxes. https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-series

But don't know if it's available yet, and the price point.

The 8Cs don't have automatic room correction, but they have fairly advanced equalizing options. They only recommend equalizing below the schroeder freqeuncy (in the bass). So what you need is a measurement mic and rew, make a measurement sweep, and then apply EQ manually to smooth out some of the peaks.

 

[Batmanpa]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=939482222899737&id=272106662970633

North West Audio show, 8C setup as Roon endpoint.
Interested to know how it chain up with the music server, is it simply by a Ethernet cable from music server to the 8C?

 

[Strictly Stereo]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=939482222899737&id=272106662970633

North West Audio show, 8C setup as Roon endpoint.
Interested to know how it chain up with the music server, is it simply by a Ethernet cable from music server to the 8C?

Yes. You connect the server and the speakers to the same network.

 

[Purité Audio]

Lee great to see you here, did you visit Cranage, Martijn said you were going to try, was the ‘Roon ready’ good, the room was very blue wasn’t it.
BW Keith

 

[kaka89]

While I would love more features such as Roon built-in 8C, I would rather Dutch & Dutch spend their R&D budget on improving speaker build quality, inputs, AD/DA, and an off-network control.

Right now 8C's input is so limited and so not user-friendly for casual listening, I felt most people would have to connect 8C to a pre-amp anyway. A non-audiophile like me needs 2 inputs already (TV and PC), I am sure other audiophiles will need more inputs than I do, and D&D would have a hard time fulfilling everyone's need. So why don't spend more time on the core product.

 

[Purité Audio]

I am certain D&D are working on a break out/ volume box with more connectivity , the build quality and A/D is already excellent all of the speakers parameters are adjusted by app, but then you can disconnect from the network.
It just takes time .
Keith

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Lee great to see you here, did you visit Cranage, Martijn said you were going to try, was the ‘Roon ready’ good, the room was very blue wasn’t it.
BW Keith

Hi Keith,
Yes, I did visit the Cranage show. I actually missed the Roon Ready demo. Steve had an Auralic front end set up when I visited his room. The room was indeed rather blue, but it certainly did sound good.

Lee

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes, they were also using a streamer front end weren’t they?
I am looking forward to trying the Roon ready here!
Keith

 

[Strictly Stereo]

While I would love more features such as Roon built-in 8C, I would rather Dutch & Dutch spend their R&D budget on improving speaker build quality, inputs, AD/DA, and an off-network control.

Right now 8C's input is so limited and so not user-friendly for casual listening, I felt most people would have to connect 8C to a pre-amp anyway. A non-audiophile like me needs 2 inputs already (TV and PC), I am sure other audiophiles will need more inputs than I do, and D&D would have a hard time fulfilling everyone's need. So why don't spend more time on the core product.

I am not aware of any issues with build quality or the AD/DA conversion. I regularly get asked for more inputs, which Dutch & Dutch will address in time. I was chatting with Martijn at the weekend and they have a couple of different ideas which they are working on. In the meantime, there are third party solutions available to provide additional inputs and volume control / input switching. What exactly would you like to connect to them?

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Yes, they were also using a streamer front end weren’t they?
I am looking forward to trying the Roon ready here!
Keith

Steve had the Auralic Aries G2 streamer with him. Simple AES cabling scheme and volume control via a handset.

 

[andrew]

While I would love more features such as Roon built-in 8C, I would rather Dutch & Dutch spend their R&D budget on improving speaker build quality, inputs, AD/DA, and an off-network control.

Right now 8C's input is so limited and so not user-friendly for casual listening, I felt most people would have to connect 8C to a pre-amp anyway. A non-audiophile like me needs 2 inputs already (TV and PC), I am sure other audiophiles will need more inputs than I do, and D&D would have a hard time fulfilling everyone's need. So why don't spend more time on the core product.

I’m keen on the Roon Endpoint function as it’ll reduce the box count. That said, to be useful to me it’ll need to be simple to switch between the physical input (AES in my case) and Roon endpoint. And the 8c DSP to allow for good 8c / sub out integration.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

I’m keen on the Roon Endpoint function as it’ll reduce the box count. That said, to be useful to me it’ll need to be simple to switch between the physical input (AES in my case) and Roon endpoint. And the 8c DSP to allow for good 8c / sub out integration.

It is easy to switch between inputs using the web app. The same web app provides access to all of the other settings and integration options.

 

[kaka89]

Relying on web app for all operations is a horrible idea, especially when 8c don't even have WIFI support.

- Where my speakers are placed doesn't have LAN port, my home relies on Wifi connection. I know I can get a router to bridge the network, but this means more boxes...
- And I have to bookmark the web app in everyone's phone and teach everyone how to use it...

I think KEF LS50W does these things in a much user-friendly way, as a customer I am expecting the same from these $10k speakers. But I also know the audio industry is horrible at software...

(Integrating with AllPlay platform is a good and easy start https://www.qualcomm.com/products/allplay)

 

[Batmanpa]

Steve had the Auralic Aries G2 streamer with him. Simple AES cabling scheme and volume control via a handset.

The G2 accept ethernet / digital input, and there is analogue output only.
I am ordering a dCS network bridge, with Ethernet in, AES digital out to 8C, then I can streaming through the network bridge, using the dCS app / Roon on a pad/mobile phone to control the vol.
If 8C is Roon ready and able to accept Ethernet digital input, we can then don't need the streaming device, just feed the digital signal to 8C via Ethernet, and use Roon to control the streaming, source from NAS/TIDAL etc.
This is my wish.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

The G2 accept ethernet / digital input, and there is analogue output only.
I am ordering a dCS network bridge, with Ethernet in, AES digital out to 8C, then I can streaming through the network bridge, using the dCS app / Roon on a pad/mobile phone to control the vol.
If 8C is Roon ready and able to accept Ethernet digital input, we can then don't need the streaming device, just feed the digital signal to 8C via Ethernet, and use Roon to control the streaming, source from NAS/TIDAL etc.
This is my wish.

The Vega G2 is a streamer and DAC with analogue output. The Aries G2 is a streaming transport, with only digital outputs (including AES). The Aries G2 is functionally very similar to the dCS Network Bridge.

When Dutch & Dutch's Roon Ready firmware moves to production (it is currently in beta), all you will need is a Roon server and the Roon app.