"Rich Guys and Reviewers Running Amok in Hi-Fi"

[Blaspheme]

Anyone who reviews a component and declares that it is "as cute as a button", as Mr. Doug did, isn't a very capable reviewer.

Depends on the button.

 

[Sal1950]

Doug is part of the problem he is talking about. He also has good bit of mistrust in measurements. He used to be here but asked me to delete his account when we had an argument over this.

But yes what he says is true.

Right on point Amir, I got a real kick out of reading the article since he see's the issue exactly as it is, but all the while he is right near the top of the tree in sinners.
But even for me it's hard to shake out the reality of things. I'm pretty comfortable when the subject is for anything else but speakers, market segments where I feel the measurements are capable of telling us if the components are fully transparent or not.
Speakers are a whole different world where individual areas testing, FR, THD, Sensitivity, Directivity, Max SPL @X %THD, etc, etc, all miss the mark of transparency by a wide margin. Not to mention the "on balance" differences any 2 speakers can present when directly compared.
Point being it's difficult in the extreme to look at a speaker measurements and determine which one will "speak" to you.
If you closely understand your own preferences and how the individual measurement points may enhance or detract from such you have a good change of getting close but --------------------------
Oh for the days of brick and mortar stores where you could personally hear the contenders and pick a winner.

 

[raistlin65]

But watches are jewelry and thus serve for many as status emblems so there is a degree of public ostentation involved. But a beautifully crafted watch is a wonderful remnant of past handmade quality items that are for the most part gone. I don't get as much pleasure using my Casio running watch as I do my Blancpain, and winding the smooth mechanism of a Vacheron Constantin or Patek Philippe is an experience to be savored.

And to many "rich guy" audiophiles, their audio equipment also serves as a status emblem. Beautiful speaker cabinets have their own aesthetic appreciation, just like watches.

 

[Victor Martell]

The reviewer who wrote this article is very much part of the problem he discusses. I had a battle with him over his advocacy of Exogal, a totally failed product that was supposed to be run via apps. The apps disappeared necessitating the use of a cheap, plastic remote. Then Schroeder wrote a review of the remote recently on Dagogo. Who reviews remotes for an obsolete product that was never intended to have one? None of his reviews have any scientific data which he disparages. I had no idea of his history with this site and recommended that he read ASR in order to learn how to write a review. Needless to say, that didn’t go over well. But sometimes he is worth reading.

Oh sure - did notice as per my post, where he seems to stand - what I found significant is that EVEN within his position... the state of the industry is not sitting well with him - when even the faithful are noticing, it's obvious things are getting out of hand - that is, imho, significant...

v

 

[FrantzM]

A better comparison I think is the watch industry. Sure, there are some luxury watches that have fantastic automatic movements in them arguably offer some of the value of the price tag. But really, what does it offer as a timekeeping piece versus a Casio G-Shock?

Thanks to digital, we've now seen the same thing happen when it comes to DACs and amps.

FWIW, I stopped caring about Luxury watches when I became an objectivist audiophile. There are differences however: No watch aficionados will ever claim their favorite (expensive) watches to be better at keeping time than any Casio … on the High end audio side however …

 

[dtaylo1066]

Bla, bla, bla. I think his thinking is full of shit, and maybe some Schiit. Where's the problem? I see none. I see benefit. The same thing could be said of almost any consumer category. In a global, digitally-driven marketplace the profit margins in audio are to be made and cultivated is in the more luxury goods end of the spectrum. That also is in many ways where innovation is driven. It is also good for consumers, as margins on lower priced brands or high-value offers from marquis brands are often driven low or to near zero, and innovation trickles down to the lower priced items.

Quality hi-fi is cheaper and more affordable now than ever. You can get a quality DAC for $300 from the likes of Topping (build in China) if you wish to rely on cheap labor and other unethical factors of Chinese production. Or such DACs are available from U.S. or free world companies, such as Schiit Audio. For $500 you can land some really good speakers, such as ELAC. For $300 you can get a decent amp. You can slap Volumio for free onto a Pi or TinkerBoard and for $60 have an instant bit-perfect streamer that runs off an app on your phone. Little or none of this would happen if high end companies or high-end research areas of Fortune 500 companies had not first jumped into the fray to develop the technologies.

It is lazy-minded to blame some mythical "rich fuck." There is no money to be made for most companies in the U.S. or Europe in producing low-cost hi-fi gear. Their lower cost products are offered to get consumers into the brand franchise. Their financial existence is grounded in selling higher-priced, higher-margin products rather than large amounts of mass-produced items.

Overall there are more and better hi-fi products available now than ever, and the prices are incredible bargains for consumers. ASR clearly confirms this every week.

 

[Leporello]

Quality hi-fi is cheaper and more affordable now than ever. You can get a quality DAC for $300 from the likes of Topping (build in China) if you wish to rely on cheap labor and other unethical factors of Chinese production. Or such DACs are available from U.S. or free world companies, such as Schiit Audio. For $500 you can land some really good speakers, such as ELAC. For $300 you can get a decent amp. You can slap Volumio for free onto a Pi or TinkerBoard and for $60 have an instant bit-perfect streamer that runs off an app on your phone. Little or none of this would happen if high end companies or high-end research areas of Fortune 500 companies had not first jumped into the fray to develop the technologies.

Would you like to name high end audio companies whose innovations have trickled down to consumer audio? Wilson? Audioquest? Wavac? Koetsu?

 

[Frank Dernie]

But watches are jewelry and thus serve for many as status emblems so there is a degree of public ostentation involved. But a beautifully crafted watch is a wonderful remnant of past handmade quality items that are for the most part gone. I don't get as much pleasure using my Casio running watch as I do my Blancpain, and winding the smooth mechanism of a Vacheron Constantin or Patek Philippe is an experience to be savored.

Yes but it is only really a status symbol if it is a Rolex since everybody has been informed how desirable and expensive they are whereas almost nobody has heard of the others

 

[Frank Dernie]

And to many "rich guy" audiophiles, their audio equipment also serves as a status emblem. Beautiful speaker cabinets have their own aesthetic appreciation, just like watches.

Yes but you don't wear them in the street.

 

[amirm]

That's too bad. I always liked Doug's speaker reviews (as subjective reviews go). I'm surprised he's so skeptical of measurements given SoundStage's relationship with NRC.

His schtick was that none of us are qualified to read frequency response measurements so we better not bother. I had not seen this side of him and as you, I thought I highly of him over the years. I had mistakenly assumed he was making those measurements. Turns out he just pays for that service for NRC to test so he doesn't have personal experience or involvement with those measurements which is part of the problem.

 

[Semla]

Yes but you don't wear them in the street.

That might explain the rising price of headphones. Much more practical.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

But watches are jewelry and thus serve for many as status emblems so there is a degree of public ostentation involved...

I think that applies to a fair bit of the high end audio market as well...

 

[Wes]

I used to be crazy about the idea of owning exotic sports cars, but I've come to appreciate how much of public roads are speed-bumped, potholed and in general, unkind to low-slung automobiles with big overhanging "beaks". Give me a Suzuki Jimny?

simple solution - buy an old exotic car and the Pooschey 911 can even be easily jacked up for off-road rallies

 

[SIY]

Would you like to name high end audio companies whose innovations have trickled down to consumer audio? Wilson? Audioquest? Wavac? Koetsu?

Their innovations are commercial, not technical.

 

[audio2design]

The reviewer who wrote this article is very much part of the problem he discusses. I had a battle with him over his advocacy of Exogal, a totally failed product that was supposed to be run via apps. The apps disappeared necessitating the use of a cheap, plastic remote. Then Schroeder wrote a review of the remote recently on Dagogo. Who reviews remotes for an obsolete product that was never intended to have one? None of his reviews have any scientific data which he disparages. I had no idea of his history with this site and recommended that he read ASR in order to learn how to write a review. Needless to say, that didn’t go over well. But sometimes he is worth reading.

This is Schneider not Schroeder.

 

[audio2design]

The reviewer who wrote this article is very much part of the problem he discusses. I had a battle with him over his advocacy of Exogal, a totally failed product that was supposed to be run via apps. The apps disappeared necessitating the use of a cheap, plastic remote. Then Schroeder wrote a review of the remote recently on Dagogo. Who reviews remotes for an obsolete product that was never intended to have one? None of his reviews have any scientific data which he disparages. I had no idea of his history with this site and recommended that he read ASR in order to learn how to write a review. Needless to say, that didn’t go over well. But sometimes he is worth reading.

This article is by Schneider not Schroeder. Not the same person.

 

[aslan7]

This article is by Schneider not Schroeder. Not the same person.

I am looking at the review and it is very certainly by Douglas Schroeder. I had a big argument with him about it on Audiogon. He is quite pompous.

 

[aslan7]

And to many "rich guy" audiophiles, their audio equipment also serves as a status emblem. Beautiful speaker cabinets have their own aesthetic appreciation, just like watches.

You can’t parade those speakers around the street or show them off under your French cuffs.

 

[aslan7]

Yes but it is only really a status symbol if it is a Rolex since everybody has been informed how desirable and expensive they are whereas almost nobody has heard of the others

Actually watch savants get a kick out of the fact that their Patek Calatravas are indistinguishable from a Timex, at least to the uninitiated. Rolex is nothing compared to the elite companies though their classics like the Explorer I are very fine and actually work. For the most part Rolex is bling.

 

[aslan7]

His schtick was that none of us are qualified to read frequency response measurements so we better not bother. I had not seen this side of him and as you, I thought I highly of him over the years. I had mistakenly assumed he was making those measurements. Turns out he just pays for that service for NRC to test so he doesn't have personal experience or involvement with those measurements which is part of the problem.

He very likely has no idea how to interpret those measurements.