Which speakers to buy to make my system better ?

[Jim Matthews]

Also maybe I am wrong (although I am very much doubt it) but as long as 708p are good they aren’t on the same level as 4722 I think. SPL capabilities, more extended lower end and better and bigger horn with the same or even lower price sounds for me like a good deal.

True, the larger dedicated bass drivers should move more air and pressurize a given space - however - you will need sufficient distance between the speaker and your listening position for best tonal balance.

But still, if I wouldn’t have DSP and amps then 708p as the active speakers would be very tempting.

An alternative is to use the SHD AES output to drive the 708p directly, and feed a low pass signal to your Purifi amp to drive your Sub. I find the 708p sounds best in my room crossed over quite high, to reduce port output but I sit pretty close (less than 3m). I don't use DIRAC at all, in my room as most of the room interference dissipated when I shifted the crossover point higher.



https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ODL312--hosa-odl312

 

[mitchco]

@mitchco I have sent an email to Michael regarding these JBL’s 4722 but no luck and he didn’t got back to me. I think that maybe they are not sending parcels to Europe. This is the only problem, if I could buy them I would buy them but no chance to buy them in Poland.

Maybe you or any other member could help me with sending them to Poland, please. Of course I would pay in forward for these speakers and the postage from USA to Poland.

I am sorry if I am asking for too much, I would not like to be rude or something. I am just trying to find a way to get them as they are my last missing piece of the audio system so it is always worth to ask.

Hello @Sieniek I totally understand I wish I could help, but I am in Canada and had the same issue as you. To purchase in Canada was over double the price, without shipping. So I set up a cross border, ship to US address and then filled out the appropriate customs forms, drove across the border and picked them up. Barely fit in the truck lol! Did the same with the Rythmik F18's. Currently, travelling across the border is closed due to Covid.

I hope you find away to purchase them. Have you tried asking on http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/activity.php forum?

 

[Sieniek]

Then get speakers with matching DSP control over them. 708i?

I have already chosen the speakers I think and these are JBL 4722. Now I only need to find a way to acquire them somehow and additional horn as well. Thank you for trying to help !

 

[Sieniek]

The biggest problem with JBL in Europe is trying to buy the damn things. You can buy the little powered monitors on Amazon easy enough but almost any of their other products are practically impossible to source and the JBL website is a joke. It's like they don't want to sell anything.

I think you are on the right track with the 4722 and subs, that will sound devastating done right.

Yes me thinks the same, I am sure the sound will be amazing as I have worked a lot with Dirac Live on windows in the past and this alone if used properly can transform an audio system to a whole new level especially if the speakers with subs have a lot of potential and the room acoustics are quite good.

I am definitely after JBL 4722 to buy, 100%
Now just need to acquire them somehow

 

[Sieniek]

True, the larger dedicated bass drivers should move more air and pressurize a given space - however - you will need sufficient distance between the speaker and your listening position for best tonal balance.



An alternative is to use the SHD AES output to drive the 708p directly, and feed a low pass signal to your Purifi amp to drive your Sub. I find the 708p sounds best in my room crossed over quite high, to reduce port output but I sit pretty close (less than 3m). I don't use DIRAC at all, in my room as most of the room interference dissipated when I shifted the crossover point higher.



https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ODL312--hosa-odl312

Thanks for interesting suggestion with SHD AES output. A lot of possibilities but only one pair of speakers stayed in my head.

 

[Sieniek]

Hello @Sieniek I totally understand I wish I could help, but I am in Canada and had the same issue as you. To purchase in Canada was over double the price, without shipping. So I set up a cross border, ship to US address and then filled out the appropriate customs forms, drove across the border and picked them up. Barely fit in the truck lol! Did the same with the Rythmik F18's. Currently, travelling across the border is closed due to Covid.

I hope you find away to purchase them. Have you tried asking on http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/activity.php forum?

Good ! You have made it in a smart way. I would definitely made the same thing if I wouldn’t live so far away. Driving from Poland would be crazy but I am really very determined haha

With Rythmik‘s F18 Brian and Enrico didn’t had any problems with shipping them abroad at my address.

Didn‘t asked on audioheritage forum yet, will do.

Do anyone of you Guys can help somehow with the shipping from USA to Poland if I would pay in forward for the speakers and shipping ? I would be really grateful ! @mitchco cannot help as he lives in Canada but maybe there is someone else who would be happy to help ?

 

[JustJones]

https://www.global-audio-store.fr/en/6608-jbl-4722.html

 

[Sieniek]

https://www.global-audio-store.fr/en/6608-jbl-4722.html

Thanks man, seen this website before. Quite expensive for one speaker.

 

[AudioJester]

Does Amir's company sell JBL gear?

 

[eriksson]

I have been very skeptical about getting great sound out of small shoe-box size speaker for casual listening. No matter how good they measure. Sure they can be worth every penny and more for near field listening and/or critical studio application. But for enjoying music in a decent size room?

I don't get the Genelec fanfare on this site, no matter how good they measure. Tiny drivers don't move much air. There is no substitute for cubic inches (driver area)?

I am not in the least surprised you don't like them.

 

[beefkabob]

I have been very skeptical about getting great sound out of small shoe-box size speaker for casual listening. No matter how good they measure. Sure they can be worth every penny and more for near field listening and/or critical studio application. But for enjoying music in a decent size room?

I don't get the Genelec fanfare on this site, no matter how good they measure. Tiny drivers don't move much air. There is no substitute for cubic inches (driver area)?

I am not in the least surprised you don't like them.

4722 are shoebox size if you are the giant at the top of the beanstalk.

Define decent sized room. In our living room, the 708p with sub could get painfully loud at 3m. The room is open on both ends and has a volume of maybe 140m^3. The 705p can't quite get there before distorting, though crossing over to the sub at maybe 150hz-200hz would allow them more headroom.

The 4722 get far louder, but I wouldn't want them at all. I think OP is making a terrible mistake. Also 4722 are gigantic.

Also there is a substitute for cubic inches. It's called a supercharger or turbo.

 

[richard12511]

I have been very skeptical about getting great sound out of small shoe-box size speaker for casual listening. No matter how good they measure. Sure they can be worth every penny and more for near field listening and/or critical studio application. But for enjoying music in a decent size room?

I don't get the Genelec fanfare on this site, no matter how good they measure. Tiny drivers don't move much air. There is no substitute for cubic inches (driver area)?

I am not in the least surprised you don't like them.

Not all Genelecs are small, the biggest being the 1236a.

 

[YSC]

I have been very skeptical about getting great sound out of small shoe-box size speaker for casual listening. No matter how good they measure. Sure they can be worth every penny and more for near field listening and/or critical studio application. But for enjoying music in a decent size room?

I don't get the Genelec fanfare on this site, no matter how good they measure. Tiny drivers don't move much air. There is no substitute for cubic inches (driver area)?

I am not in the least surprised you don't like them.

There are the large 123x series, all depends on what you aim at to use them for and you choose your product, both genelec and Neumann provide a suggested chart on room size to use their products.

 

[thewas]

Not all Genelecs are small, the biggest being the 1236a.

Yes, I doubt any other manufacturer offers such a bandwidth of sizes.

 

[Sieniek]

4722 are shoebox size if you are the giant at the top of the beanstalk.

Define decent sized room. In our living room, the 708p with sub could get painfully loud at 3m. The room is open on both ends and has a volume of maybe 140m^3. The 705p can't quite get there before distorting, though crossing over to the sub at maybe 150hz-200hz would allow them more headroom.

The 4722 get far louder, but I wouldn't want them at all. I think OP is making a terrible mistake. Also 4722 are gigantic.

Also there is a substitute for cubic inches. It's called a supercharger or turbo.

As always, thank you for your input !

It is very interesting what you are after but could you explain please why do you think I can make a mistake with JBL 4722 ? Keep in mind that the size of the speakers aren’t the problem for me.

Please give me some pros and cons if you can.

From what I have researched 4722 are cheaper, better sounding, wider and bigger soundstage, better imaging, crazy big SPL, very easy to drive, much more room for EQ.

One person had them initially, then sold them and tried many different speakers among others 708p and after all these set of speakers he have got back to JBL 4722 as explained he never got such a good sound from the other speakers as he have got from these JBL’s.

Of course I am not gonna listen so loudly to make my ears painful but I believe it is better to have an opportunity to make the music louder as I believe that means there is much more room for additional EQ after main Dirac correction.

By the way, I have checked JBL 708p review when you have advised me to do that couple of days ago and their score with subwoofer is “only” 6.8 if I remember correctly where such a Kef R3 has scored 8.2 with subwoofer. Why the 708p is soo good then ?
I know Kef R3 have smaller woofer but still maybe such a size would be enough to have some very loud possibilities without distortion if crossed at 100hz or 120hz (120hz is the maximum on my subs, I would prefer to cross around 80hz and if I would have 4722 80hz would be my choice).

But still, I cannot understand why JBL 4722 would be a mistake. And everyone is saying that with 2452h 4” compression driver with Be diaphragm they are extremely good sounding speakers. Everyone seems to love how amazing and “real” they sound and talking about their superb imaging and very large soundstage. I do not think that I could get better or bigger sound from small 708p speakers or Kef R3.

 

[eriksson]

Apologies, in my previous comment I was under the impression I was replying to the man who is unhappy with his Genelec 8030 speakers. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ed-not-sure-where-to-go-speaker-choice.24361/
Apparently I managed to post in wrong thread. This might have something to do with the cold beverages I was enjoying last night but that's just a theory. On the bright site I posted in correct forum.

 

[YSC]

As always, thank you for your input !

It is very interesting what you are after but could you explain please why do you think I can make a mistake with JBL 4722 ? Keep in mind that the size of the speakers aren’t the problem for me.

Please give me some pros and cons if you can.

From what I have researched 4722 are cheaper, better sounding, wider and bigger soundstage, better imaging, crazy big SPL, very easy to drive, much more room for EQ.

One person had them initially, then sold them and tried many different speakers among others 708p and after all these set of speakers he have got back to JBL 4722 as explained he never got such a good sound from the other speakers as he have got from these JBL’s.

Of course I am not gonna listen so loudly to make my ears painful but I believe it is better to have an opportunity to make the music louder as I believe that means there is much more room for additional EQ after main Dirac correction.

By the way, I have checked JBL 708p review when you have advised me to do that couple of days ago and their score with subwoofer is “only” 6.8 if I remember correctly where such a Kef R3 has scored 8.2 with subwoofer. Why the 708p is soo good then ?
I know Kef R3 have smaller woofer but still maybe such a size would be enough to have some very loud possibilities without distortion if crossed at 100hz or 120hz (120hz is the maximum on my subs, I would prefer to cross around 80hz and if I would have 4722 80hz would be my choice).

But still, I cannot understand why JBL 4722 would be a mistake. And everyone is saying that with 2452h 4” compression driver with Be diaphragm they are extremely good sounding speakers. Everyone seems to love how amazing and “real” they sound and talking about their superb imaging and very large soundstage. I do not think that I could get better or bigger sound from small 708p speakers or Kef R3.

I didn't see any measurement for the 4722 but personally my very limited experience is that for growing size of the speaker you need more and more space from your listening position to the speaker, and one thing to mind is although your room is quite large, with such large speakers you will need to put them pretty close to the wall and hence the bass boost can be huge, and at such it can be good or bad depending to what your are looking for. and from the looks it seems that they are designed and best used flush mounted into the wall to counter the wall reflection bass boost, so horses for courses I think.

 

[Sieniek]

I have been very skeptical about getting great sound out of small shoe-box size speaker for casual listening. No matter how good they measure. Sure they can be worth every penny and more for near field listening and/or critical studio application. But for enjoying music in a decent size room?

I don't get the Genelec fanfare on this site, no matter how good they measure. Tiny drivers don't move much air. There is no substitute for cubic inches (driver area)?

I am not in the least surprised you don't like them.

I am with you there, I know small speakers are great sounding ones as well but if there is an possibility with the room and in some people’s cases with the wife as well then bigger is “almost” always better for me. Almost because on every big speaker is better than a smaller speaker.

But in my opinion if you are going big then room equalisation is more important than if you would go with small speakers.

Same example with subwoofers, some people’s do not like them for music but if you will treat them very well with Dirac or any bass management software then subwoofers are the best for lower end in music IMO.

Of course I like Genelecs, I like how they looks as well and I think it is a great company. Once I have called them to make an appointment for demoing 8351a and one of their representative make it for me in one shop. I was amazed by the sound but never acquired them.

Do you think I would get bigger soundstage and better imaging from Genelec‘s 8351a than from JBL 4722 with 2452h 4” compression driver, both with Rythmik’s F18 on lower bottom ? I do not think so but maybe I am wrong ?

 

[Sieniek]

Apologies, in my previous comment I was under the impression I was replying to the man who is unhappy with his Genelec 8030 speakers. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ed-not-sure-where-to-go-speaker-choice.24361/
Apparently I managed to post in wrong thread. This might have something to do with the cold beverages I was enjoying last night but that's just a theory. On the bright site I posted in correct forum.

Haha do not worry ! At least you landed in an interesting place where we have interesting discussions.

 

[YSC]

I am with you there, I know small speakers are great sounding ones as well but if there is an possibility with the room and in some people’s cases with the wife as well then bigger is “almost” always better for me. Almost because on every big speaker is better than a smaller speaker.

But in my opinion if you are going big then room equalisation is more important than if you would go with small speakers.

Same example with subwoofers, some people’s do not like them for music but if you will treat them very well with Dirac or any bass management software then subwoofers are the best for lower end in music IMO.

Of course I like Genelecs, I like how they looks as well and I think it is a great company. Once I have called them to make an appointment for demoing 8351a and one of their representative make it for me in one shop. I was amazed by the sound but never acquired them.

Do you think I would get bigger soundstage and better imaging from Genelec‘s 8351a than from JBL 4722 with 2452h 4” compression driver, both with Rythmik’s F18 on lower bottom ? I do not think so but maybe I am wrong ?

This is what I really loved my genelec 7040 for my tiny room, in a closed in environment the built in dip switches already make a very easy tweak for me to align the FR in my LP very nicely for either flat to 30hz bass or slightly boosted (+2db) bass from 30hz for preferred in room bass, and that even under the desk right at my toe, the localization isn't a problem at all and I can fully enjoy the music when called for. I am pretty sure the 8030C+7040A I am using won't be enough if I bring them to the living room of say more than 200 sq ft, but well it's Hong Kong here and most won't afford any larger living rooms... so that's what goes perfect for me, small foot print in a tiny room (my current room is like 50 sq ft... so you know...) and if you got a medium to large living room in a house, hell yeah you better go with full towers or at least 8351+ 2 subs for the same pleasure on sound quality