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Need Monitor Advice for a Challenging Small Room

OP
cutmix

cutmix

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Given that you primarily use headphones, what are the loudspeakers for?
I use loudspeakers for several reasons: most importantly, they help mitigate ear fatigue during long sessions. They also allow for A/B testing mixes in a more open (though imperfect) environment, and are useful for non-critical tasks like editing and placing sound effects. This complements my headphone use and ensures a well-rounded production process, especially in an imperfect room.
 

mjgraves

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The JBL hiss also. small Genelecs or Neumanns don't his, just like passive speakers don't hiss neighter. Hissing is mostly caused by using not well filtered cheap class D amplfiers in active speakers.
JBL 70x Series don't hiss.

Nor do my cheesy old M-Audio BX Series.
 

rynberg

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Yes that's a biggest issue in any small room so you put speakers to the wall behind them as the next best thing to do. In this case they are far from it and let it stay like that instead making a bigger problem out of it (ISO 3382-1 early-to-late arriving sound energy, problematic in lows particularly). And make direct one stand out more. A room mode refraction is always present and first fundamental and following two (it's harmonics in the large part) will remain the same if you rotate 180° it's length influenced. Again you do best you can and use it for reinforcement not killing it entirely but making energy brust (spectral in waterfal) there more in line with smaller other room influenced one's. You use combination of VBA with negative responses in FIR wav and then PEQ the rest (to 1~3 KHz as good you can and Q filter is relevant factor of 50) and if need be slope down highs future more. That's about it.
Edit: you can play with the phase after that but if done correct so far you won't mess impulse response (decay, pre ringing, mismatch between L & R as you do the match and both FIR and PEQ are done minimal phase...) in the first place so that's more mandatory or if such problems occurred.
If you think a room mode is worse than OP's current location of having side and rear walls 2' from his head, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
 

Blumlein 88

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Given the you are so close I fear JBL LSR 305s might have some hiss audible. What you need is some distance for several reasons. Is it feasible to do a ceiling mount of some good monitors out in the middle of the room? Or maybe a wall mount well up on the wall above the work bench and the opposite wall?
 

ZolaIII

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If you think a room mode is worse than OP's current location of having side and rear walls 2' from his head, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
Yes, first thing I told him is to put thick curtains on the window and wall behind him. Better him then speakers and literally described cuple times why. I don't know in what parallel universe you live where suddenly if you rotate position 180° side walls become more far away. If you ever read posts on the beginning you will realise he in any case doesn't want to be facing door with his back. By the way 2' is fine, it's not great or outstanding but it's good enough in given circumstances.
 

Squiggy74

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@ZolaIII Thank you for your advice. I've uploaded a sketch of my current room layout for a better understanding. The usable space is roughly 7 feet wide due to a cutout with a built-in bench and some shelves, and my desk placement is limited by windows and doors. I also find it uncomfortable to have my back facing the door, which influences my seating arrangement. Additionally, this space doubles as my office, storing both equipment and files.

My current setup includes an Apogee Duet 2, noisy Equator Audio D5s (concentric design), Slate VSX headphones, and Coincident Triumph Signature passive monitors. These monitors are too bulky for this area and will likely be relocated to my living room (I'll be starting a different thread to seek recommendations for an amp for these speakers). I primarily work in the box, and while some bass extension would be nice, it's not a crucial factor for me.

Regarding acoustic treatment and DSP, what types are you using? I’ve been relying on Slate VSX headphones, which effectively emulate speakers, and I find my mixes translate well. However, my main goal now is to find a quiet, decent set of speakers. I usually listen at around 70dB to stay mindful of my neighbors and my hearing health.

@dfuller I'll take a closer look at the Kali IN-5s.

View attachment 365707
I have a similar room layout but mine is 9' x 12'. Same layout too. I'm looking for my first hifi system in this room. Currently I have sonos Era 300, which started me down this rabbit hole.
 

0ID

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Why not buy speakers designed for placement very close to the wall or for mounting straight on the wall and the problem is pretty much solved when listening to music at normal volumes?
 

Squiggy74

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That's what I'm asking the group. I know Dalis and Monitor audio silver 50 can be placed near wall. Curious about Wharfedale Dentons?
 

Miguelón

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Did you finally get your monitors?
I have excellent results from Genelecs 8020 (I have 8030 too but it moves way more air than the 4 inches version, and more difficult to place), I didn’t tried 8320 as I found totally unnecessary onboard DSP but double analogue-digital and digital-analogue conversion: they don’t have digital inputs.

Dip switches on 8020 are well made to handle majority of room troubles, or you can use DSP at your computer. They sound awesome and way better than other 4 inch monitors on the market, including Neumann KH80. I can’t believe they are so little and handle, room response is even better than 8030 in my apartment
 

Holmz

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I use loudspeakers for several reasons: most importantly, they help mitigate ear fatigue during long sessions. They also allow for A/B testing mixes in a more open (though imperfect) environment, and are useful for non-critical tasks like editing and placing sound effects. This complements my headphone use and ensures a well-rounded production process, especially in an imperfect room.

If it is for “work“ then you probably want the speakers in addition to any headphone work.

I would be leaving the doors open to bleed out extra bass energy. Or at least try it both ways.
 

Miguelón

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If it is for “work“ then you probably want the speakers in addition to any headphone work.

I would be leaving the doors open to bleed out extra bass energy. Or at least try it both ways.
I noticed that dissipation effect, but figured was my imagination…

Thinking about getting a subwoofer, is mandatory to place it behind the monitor’s line?

The only place in which can accomplish that is a corner, otherwise the monitors will invade my little living-room. Actually they are placed at 45 degrees from the walls, pointing diagonally through the center of the room and letting 1 meter behind of free space behind (where is the corner at the middle)
 

Holmz

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I noticed that dissipation effect, but figured was my imagination…

Maybe it wasn’t?

Thinking about getting a subwoofer, is mandatory to place it behind the monitor’s line?
I think it (they/them/those) could be placed anywhere in the room, with appropriate delays and levels.

The only place in which can accomplish that is a corner, otherwise the monitors will invade my little living-room. Actually they are placed at 45 degrees from the walls, pointing diagonally through the center of the room and letting 1 meter behind of free space behind (where is the corner at the middle)

It is possible that a UMIK and some runs with REW can be used to find places in the room that are easier than others to give you a decent response.
It is also possible that it might pay for itself in time saved.
 

Miguelón

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Maybe it wasn’t?


I think it (they/them/those) could be placed anywhere in the room, with appropriate delays and levels.



It is possible that a UMIK and some runs with REW can be used to find places in the room that are easier than others to give you a decent response.
It is also possible that it might pay for itself in time saved.
Thanks, I only had seen the Genelec indications to the sub placement!

Apparently the 7040 is not very difficult to place, its woofer is 6,5 inches and goes to 33 Hz
 

Holmz

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Thanks, I only had seen the Genelec indications to the sub placement!

Apparently the 7040 is not very difficult to place, its woofer is 6,5 inches and goes to 33 Hz

There are tonnes of videos on sub placement and people advocating 2, 3 and 4 subs in corners, and in the middle of a wall.
And more metric tonnes of video using measurements to get a better response, and also using DSP after that.

You still would likely want to get the main speakers placed in good position, and that can also take some time and work.
Usually that work can happen first.
 

dfuller

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Apparently the 7040 is not very difficult to place, its woofer is 6,5 inches and goes to 33 Hz
Has basically zero SPL capabilities though.
 

Miguelón

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There are tonnes of videos on sub placement and people advocating 2, 3 and 4 subs in corners, and in the middle of a wall.
And more metric tonnes of video using measurements to get a better response, and also using DSP after that.

You still would likely want to get the main speakers placed in good position, and that can also take some time and work.
Usually that work can happen first.
Believe me, they are on the best position. The major issue is some plaster divisions made by the owner of out apartment (is in location) that create first reflexions.

I pointed the speakers diagonally because is the direction with longest free space of the room, the result is quite good without any bass or high major nonlinearity.

Thanks for advices!
 

Miguelón

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Has basically zero SPL capabilities though.
I don’t listen over 70 dB very often, surely it can provide enough energy in a little room. Genelec calculates well this kind of solutions, apart from good results that other member obtained (he posted excellent FR response and reasonable SPL with the Genelecs 8030 and a 7040 on similar size room).

We can also try and check, but as we don’t listen to electronic music or high SPL films at home I think it will improve our setup in overall response.
 
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