Elac Debut Reference DBR-62 Speaker Review

[kevin1969]

I'm debating on either miniDSP SHD or Elac DR62 to replace some Klipsch RP500m's.


What should I do first?

 

[Beave]

Purchased these recently based on Amir's speaker listening tests. I'm waiting for my custom speakers to be assembled (2 month lead time), so I needed a budget speaker option decent enough til I receive them.

They were disappointing to say the least. I listened to them on-axis only, as I do all my speakers, and without the tweeter grills. I do have the original Elac B6 speaker. I was driving them with the Benchmark AHB2.

My immediate impressions were the lack of rhythmic drive, dynamic punch and attack. Then the lack of treble energy which overall made these speakers sound extremely dull.

I went back to the measurements Amir took to see if I could identify the problem and I see it's scooped in the 2.5khz-4.2khz region:

This confirms the laid-back and undynamic character of the sound I was hearing. I do hear quite a bit of a muffled sound. Drum hits don't have the power they should so drum kits sound like they are caked in mud but you can clearly hear the hi-hats.

With typical studio recordings where a singer is front in center, I can hear the vocals more present above the rest of the mix. But the instruments around and behind the singer are too muddy, not well outlined. Veiled with a smearing of poo. Bass was also one-note and indistinct at times, with much too early roll-off.

They are an exceptionally smooth, rounded sound that would be great for elevator music, smooth jazz, a capella. They simply do not have the bite, buzz, bark, crispness, snap, attack and growl that is necessary for pop/rock recordings to "pop" out of the speakers for an engaging listen. I actually found the original Elac B6 to have more drive and energy.

I cannot recommend these speakers. If you want this kind of sound, you could save half your money and pick up a pair of the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2s.

Why did you remove the metal grilles over the tweeters?

 

[RobS]

Why did you remove the metal grilles over the tweeters?

It's best not to have your high frequencies pass through a grill like that and should give a smoother response too.

 

[Beave]

How do you know? Before and after measurements? For all we know, removing that grille might have perfectly fixed that small dip in the treble that you pointed out. Or maybe it made something else worse and that caused your dislike of the speakers.

 

[RobS]

How do you know? Before and after measurements? For all we know, removing that grille might have perfectly fixed that small dip in the treble that you pointed out. Or maybe it made something else worse and that caused your dislike of the speakers.

Actually those measurements Amir posted of the on-axis response is with the metal grill still over the tweeter (the cloth grill was removed for the measurements). So removing it could have improved or worsened it. I did both measurements of the metal tweeter grills on and off, the response was smoother and flatter without the grill over it.

 

[Beave]

Can you share your measurements? That would be interesting to see.

 

[Honken]

I haven't measured the response with vs. without the grilles but subjectively I don't hear any difference so I keep them on - I like the look.

Rob, have you tried EQing that area or used one of the many DSP presets presented in this thread? I honestly like the sound without EQ, and with it's one of the best I've heard.

 

[kevin1969]

Purchased these recently based on Amir's speaker listening tests. I'm waiting for my custom speakers to be assembled (2 month lead time), so I needed a budget speaker option decent enough til I receive them.

They were disappointing to say the least. I listened to them on-axis only, as I do all my speakers, and without the tweeter grills. I do have the original Elac B6 speaker. I was driving them with the Benchmark AHB2.

My immediate impressions were the lack of rhythmic drive, dynamic punch and attack. Then the lack of treble energy which overall made these speakers sound extremely dull.

I went back to the measurements Amir took to see if I could identify the problem and I see it's scooped in the 2.5khz-4.2khz region:

View attachment 117771


This confirms the laid-back and undynamic character of the sound I was hearing. I do hear quite a bit of a muffled sound. Drum hits don't have the power they should so drum kits sound like they are caked in mud but you can clearly hear the hi-hats.

With typical studio recordings where a singer is front in center, I can hear the vocals more present above the rest of the mix. But the instruments around and behind the singer are too muddy, not well outlined. Veiled with a smearing of poo. Bass was also one-note and indistinct at times, with much too early roll-off.

They are an exceptionally smooth, rounded sound that would be great for elevator music, smooth jazz, a capella. They simply do not have the bite, buzz, bark, crispness, snap, attack and growl that is necessary for pop/rock recordings to "pop" out of the speakers for an engaging listen. I actually found the original Elac B6 to have more drive and energy.

I cannot recommend these speakers. If you want this kind of sound, you could save half your money and pick up a pair of the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2s.

Could you describe the room that you're playing them in? Not that I don't believe you I just find this fascinating. I might go listen to these today since this thread has got my interest peaked.

 

[weasels]

they are definitely 2-3 db down in treble vs. my B&Ws. I personally prefer the ELAC as I find the elevated treble initially exciting but ultimately unnatural.

 

[kevin1969]

they are definitely 2-3 db down in treble vs. my B&Ws. I personally prefer the ELAC as I find the elevated treble initially exciting but ultimately unnatural.

I think that's why I like my PSB speakers so much because of the great base mid-range and clarity without overdoing the treble.

 

[thebmillproject]

Hi all!

Got the References today. Definitely a wider and more 3D soundstage from the 6.2 and a little less bright. Going to see how it goes after a few more days of listening.

I was curious if you guys use a subwoofer or not? I did with the 6.2s and they seemed to help counter the brightness of those, but now I'm on the fence as to whether these references need a sub.

EDIT: If anyone does use a sub with theirs, what are you crossing over at?

 

[Chromatischism]

Crossover points are usually determined by how the capabilities of your speakers and subs play out in the room so it's hard to make a recommendation.

For example, at one house I used 100 Hz. At another, I used 80 Hz. Same gear.

 

[daftcombo]

Hi all!

Got the References today. Definitely a wider and more 3D soundstage from the 6.2 and a little less bright. Going to see how it goes after a few more days of listening.

I was curious if you guys use a subwoofer or not? I did with the 6.2s and they seemed to help counter the brightness of those, but now I'm on the fence as to whether these references need a sub.

EDIT: If anyone does use a sub with theirs, what are you crossing over at?

The brightness caused by your room can be addressed by reducing the toe-in. But if you want very low frequencies, a sub crossed around 70 Hz could be interesting.

 

[thebmillproject]

The brightness caused by your room can be addressed by reducing the toe-in. But if you want very low frequencies, a sub crossed around 70 Hz could be interesting.

Not sure if I understand your question correctly. But Amir's review on the first page measures the horizontal directivity at +-80 degrees.

Exactly! I am wondering what the horizontal directivity of the B6.2s are! They References SOUND like they have a larger sweet spot but Im not sure if Im just going crazy or not.

 

[thebmillproject]

The brightness caused by your room can be addressed by reducing the toe-in. But if you want very low frequencies, a sub crossed around 70 Hz could be interesting.

Thank you!

I'm also curious about what I have the speakers on. At the moment they're on these:
IsoAcoustics ISO-130 Small Speaker Monitor Acoustic Isolation Stands

There's that or some foam insulation too.

Another important detail: I can only get these speakers about 7-8 inches from the back wall and I can't put them on separate stands.

I have hard wood floors and there's no rug or soft furniture in the listing room either :0

 

[Beershaun]

Hi all!

Got the References today. Definitely a wider and more 3D soundstage from the 6.2 and a little less bright. Going to see how it goes after a few more days of listening.

I was curious if you guys use a subwoofer or not? I did with the 6.2s and they seemed to help counter the brightness of those, but now I'm on the fence as to whether these references need a sub.

EDIT: If anyone does use a sub with theirs, what are you crossing over at?

I am using a svs-sb2000 subwoofer crossed over at 80hz. It’s very seamless to my ears at that crossover point.

 

[Honken]

I'm using a XO at 160hz, the only reason why I'm crossing that high is that this works better in this room of mine.

I wouldn't say that adding subs is something that is required but it sure helps for some types of music with lots of very deep bass.

 

[digitalfrost]

From the impedance graph you can see they're tuned to ~50hz, and from the distortion chart you can see the distortion rises below 90hz. I'd cross them at 100hz.

 

[bokolobs]

Exactly! I am wondering what the horizontal directivity of the B6.2s are! They References SOUND like they have a larger sweet spot but Im not sure if Im just going crazy or not.

They really do, per Amir's measurements and from my experience. One downside is that using it in a not so well-treated room, sound bounces all over the place. I've read and heard that if you treat them like a high-end pair (nice stands, good placement, room treatment), they can deliver excellent performance. And I agree–I placed them in our lounge area and gave them enough room to perform, and oh my god, I've never heard such sounds before. But I'm new to this, so experiencing this was a revelation. And now I'm hook to this hobby and planning my next system.

 

[thebmillproject]

Just so we're all on the same page. We're talking about crossing them over at this without

They really do, per Amir's measurements and from my experience. One downside is that using it in a not so well-treated room, sound bounces all over the place. I've read and heard that if you treat them like a high-end pair (nice stands, good placement, room treatment), they can deliver excellent performance. And I agree–I placed them in our lounge area and gave them enough room to perform, and oh my god, I've never heard such sounds before. But I'm new to this, so experiencing this was a revelation. And now I'm hook to this hobby and planning my next system.

So you had the 6.2s and upgraded to the reference too? There was a few Fleetwood Mac songs on vinyl that felt way more 3 dimensional on the references