Recommendation for AMP/DAC combo needed (I am exhausted Edition)

[Fetch_Execute_Break]

So before you roll your eyes and think about how lazy I may be or should use the search function,
let me tell you something at first, my dear guys and girls:
I am so what exhausted. Even of being aware that this is a real deluxe premium first world problem.

For weeks I try to find a solid DAC/AMP device (stacked or combined) but I don't know which one. Why?
Because on one side we have technical, scientific information and reviews (here on the forums) and we have also
opinions/reviews based on experience (and of course personal taste).

My requirements:
- At least USB-Input (Optical optional)
- 3,5/6,3mm Headphones out
- max. 500 EUR
- MQA or DSD is not necessary
- I am listen to flacs from CDs
- Using Mac OS or Linux with MPD or Windows..it doesn't matter

I have the KRK KNS 8400 (36 Ohms) headphones



At first I was interest in getting a JDS Labs Element 2 DAC/AMP, but recognized that in some posts folks mentioned
that the JDS Labs EL 2 DAC + JDS Atom Amp would be a better combination. Why should a company sell a higher tier devices
that is worse than some lower tier products? Or someone wrote that the DAC is bottlenecking the amp inside the Element 2.

I also read a post/comment in Amirs JDS Labs Element 2 Review thread that the SMSL M500 has better amp/DAC values/results.
So I headed to Amirs SMSL M500 and the performance data seems to be (much) better. My choice was made and I sailed through the
endless ocean of online shops in the world wide web. In Germany/Austria it is the easiest way to get stuff from companies like SMSL
on Amazon which also has the nice side effect of having customer reviews. Some folks wrote there that the DAC is bottlenecking the AMP
and it is recommnded to external DAC....to a DAC/AMP combo that costs about 400 Euros (why the hell?).
So I went back to Amirs Review to re-check its data and saw that the M500 has very good DAC values but only with XLR?
Does this mean it has not very good performance values with optical or USB? I am confused..and why does the DAC bottlenecking the amp?

Alright...so I remembered a combo I wanted some years ago: the famous Magni/Modi combination. And then I also remembered what
some internet folks told me: Most laptop/desktop systems have decent DACs you only will have a difference by using only the (Magni) amp.
What? Seriously?

I don't know what to choose. My wish is to get a nice DAC/AMP combination that will assist me the next two years during my
study sessions on a daily basis. I am really, really confused and would like to have a combo with with the most bang of the buck, good quality, nice performance
and maybe reliable customer service.


Guys and girls, what can you recommend to end the drama?

- SMSL SP200 AMP + M200 DAC

- JDS Element 2

- JDS Atom DAC/AMP because it is known for its amazing price/performance value.

- SMSL M500 (does it perform on USB/Optical that bad?)

- Sabaj D5 (seems to have a nice DAC but medicore amp)

- Topping DX7 Pro (spending more money for something better?) << there seem to be too many faulty units in general

- Something completely different?

Please excuse this another "recommend me XY" thread.


I thank you in advance!

 

[Zensō]

Personally, based upon your specs I would just buy the Element II and be done with it. The DAC is transparent so you’re fretting over nothing there. The beautiful industrial design of the Element and the excellent customer support from JDS would be the deciding factors for me.

 

[JimmyBuckets]

I've had nothing but great interaction with JDS labs.

 

[kiyu]

I am going or with
Topping E30 + A50s + Cables 400$$
waiting for Amir's review of the Xduoo XA-10 REALLY good technical spects( 2xak4493, xmos216, altera max2, amp A clase ) in papper looks amazing, but again still waiting for amir review. visually is not the pretties, but is not bad, costs 475$ still on your budget.

 

[JimmyBuckets]

Then again...I upgraded my JDS labs stuff with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. To me for the money and functions, it's end game for me. Great amp section, great DAC section, tons of functionally with all sorts of customization options.

 

[kiyu]

Then again...I upgraded my JDS labs stuff with the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. To me for the money and functions, it's end game for me. Great amp section, great DAC section, tons of functionally with all sorts of customization options.

you probably right, but the topic was with a Max of 500eur.
so if you pay the difference I will go with RME ADI-2 DAC FS lol

 

[JimmyBuckets]

Yeah. I realize it's a bit more. I have to say I have been pretty impressed with the way my Motu M4 sounds all on its own as well. Like I said before though,. I am a big JDS fan.

 

[Racheski]

That intro gave me a good laugh - we have all been there at some point in time. I'll give you my thoughts on your options:

Overall all of these D/S dacs are going to work great - the "bottlenecking" you mentioned is nonsense.

- SMSL SP200 AMP + M200 DAC
Pros: Fair price, plenty of power with super low distortion from THX.
Cons: No outputs for speakers on the Amp, volume is a bit imbalanced, and SMSL for some unknown reason made both units slanted.
- JDS Element 2
Pros: All in one unit with a relatively small footprint, gorgeous volume knob (I had the Element I for awhile and really enjoyed that knob), JDS labs customer service.
Cons: USB input only on the DAC, pre-amp switch is on the rear of the device, not a ton of power for the price.
- JDS Atom DAC/AMP because it is known for its amazing price/performance value.
Pros: Great performance for the money
Cons: USB input only on the DAC, cheaper build quality. I'm actually looking to sell my Atom Amp
- SMSL M500 (does it perform on USB/Optical that bad?)
Pros: All in one unit with a small footprint, digital display, & remote control.
Cons: You are paying extra for MQA support, underpowered amp.
- Sabaj D5 (seems to have a nice DAC but medicore amp)
Pros: All in one unit, digital display, & remote control.
Cons: Underpowered amp.

If you are looking for the best bargain that fulfills your requirements, the Atom stack is a no brainer - there will be diminishing returns as you pay for more features. If you want to spend your entire budget, I would recommend buying the best amp possible that allows you to still afford a separate DAC....

Topping A30 Pro ($350)
This is an end-game Amp. It blows all of the other options out of the water in terms of power and SINAD, and received heavy praise from Amir. However, it is brand new so you will have to wait a couple weeks for it to ship (Apos says 4/2, Shenzenaudio has no date), but I think it's well worth the small wait.

Then just get the cheapest DAC that satisfies your requirements.
Topping E30 DAC ($150)
Topping D10s DAC ($105)
Schiit Modi ($99 plus shipping)
or the JDS Atom.

 

[Cahudson42]

Just a thought: You have $150 headphones and are considering 500€ for a DAC/Amp to drive them, am I correct?

If so, might you get more enjoyment by first upgrading your HP? Spend most of the money for that? Say 400€, and then maybe the $9 Apple DAC, and $100 amp..?

Personally, for the KNS 8400, I'd be spending $110 for an 'all in one' Qudelix 5k, utilizing it's PEQ to optimize the KNS..

And for under 400€ for HP, the Sundara planar..

(With a Balanced cable, the Qudelix will also drive the Sundara just fine..)

 

[Fetch_Execute_Break]

I am going or with
Topping E30 + A50s + Cables 400$$
waiting for Amir's review of the Xduoo XA-10 REALLY good technical spects( 2xak4493, xmos216, altera max2, amp A clase ) in papper looks amazing, but again still waiting for amir review. visually is not the pretties, but is not bad, costs 475$ still on your budget.

Topping seems to have a QA problem in general, at least from posts all over the web, but I also know that some people only complain and don't praise good things. Still, I am thinking about a possible Topping Combo a lot.

I have bad experience with Xduoo: their DAP X3 had known playback issues and they never fixed it.

Just a thought: You have $150 headphones and are considering 500€ for a DAC/Amp to drive them, am I correct?

If so, might you get more enjoyment by first upgrading your HP? Spend most of the money for that? Say 400€, and then maybe the $9 Apple DAC, and $100 amp..?

Personally, for the KNS 8400, I'd be spending $110 for an 'all in one' Qudelix 5k, utilizing it's PEQ to optimize the KNS..

And for under 400€ for HP, the Sundara planar..

(With a Balanced cable, the Qudelix will also drive the Sundara just fine..)

I would like to have something "future proof" in terms of power and quality. I am planning to have "better" headphones in the coming months but will never go as high as planar hs.

 

[ZolaIII]

Topping D30Pro (DAC) 400$ and Topping A30Pro (AMP) 350$ if you insist on future proof performance (more than 500€ I know). Of course when you buy you do that from somewhere with easy enough return/shipping policy in order to avoid possible QC issues (disregarding of brand). Consider this only as an answer to your question. Of course I wouldn't go that way at all; would buy a good hedaphones and then worry about DAC and Amp.

 

[Fetch_Execute_Break]

That intro gave me a good laugh - we have all been there at some point in time.

Yes, and I after all those posts I have more questions than answers Which is good because I getting more and more into the terminology and technical background.

Then just get the cheapest DAC that satisfies your requirements.
Topping E30 DAC ($150)
Topping D10s DAC ($105)
Schiit Modi ($99 plus shipping)
or the JDS Atom.

Thank you for the detailed insight and information of all devices in your awesome post. It is really sad I guess for now I will fly around this forum and read instead of write.

For now I will have the following sets/ideas in mind:

1. JDS Labs Atom Stack and upgrading my headphones
2. Schiit Modius/Magnius Stack
3. A Topping Stack (e.g. E30 + A30 Pro)
4. DROP THX 789 or Monolith THX AAA 887 with a good DAC (but what good DAC?)

Damn, my head is spinning.

 

[Fetch_Execute_Break]

Topping D30Pro (DAC) 400$ and Topping A30Pro (AMP) 350$ if you insist on future proof performance (more than 500€ I know). Of course when you buy you do that from somewhere with easy enough return/shipping policy in order to avoid possible QC issues (disregarding of brand). Consider this only as an answer to your question. Of course I wouldn't go that way at all; would buy a good hedaphones and then worry about DAC and Amp.

Yes, @Cahudson42 already mention something like that. Any recommendations under 500 € / 590 USD?
Hifiman Sundara? Can I use them with "standard" gear like a Fiio X1 DAP or Galaxy Note 9 until I get a good amp/dac solution? I also have an old HiFimyDIY USB DAC 2 which I could use for a while.

The Topping D30 Pro and A30 Pro seem to be an interesting combination but also is the price. Still worth considering it.
Any suggestions what shop offers a good return/shipping policy?

 

[ZolaIII]

Nope. For phone's 1~1.2V out 32~45 Ohm's, for 2V line out 50~70 Ohm's, balanced line out 4V duble that impedance all dynamic driver's. All planars do need an good Amp that can give plenty mV at lo impedances and it needs to be a great one regarding SINAD there (which is a problem). Speaking in generally of course.

 

[Fetch_Execute_Break]

Nope. For phone's 1~1.2V out 32~45 Ohm's, for 2V line out 50~70 Ohm's, balanced line out 4V duble that impedance all dynamic driver's. All planars do need an good amp that can give plenty mV at lo impedances and it needs to be a great one regarding SINAD (which is a problem). Speaking in generally of course.

So for the beginning Hifiman Sundara and JDS Lab Atom amp/DAC stack would be fine?

 

[Racheski]

Yes, and I after all those posts I have more questions than answers Which is good because I getting more and more into the terminology and technical background.




Thank you for the detailed insight and information of all devices in your awesome post. It is really sad I guess for now I will fly around this forum and read instead of write.

For now I will have the following sets in mind:

1. JDS Labs Atom Stack
2. Schiit Modius/Magnius Stack
3. A Topping Stack (e.g. E30 + A30 Pro
4. DROP THX 789 or Monolith THX AAA 887 with a good DAC (but what good DAC?)

Damn, my head is spinning.

These are all good choices, except for the 887 because it’s basically the same as the 789 but $100 more. Now you can focus on the nice to haves that you are willing to pay extra for, e.g. a remote, digital display, optical input, toggle location, integrated power supply, pre amp vs pass thru, balanced vs Single ended, footprint, etc...if you don’t really care about bells and whistles then go with the Atom stack.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Fetch_Execute_Break I won't recommend you hedaphones as that depends on many subjective factors (liking, fit...) and so I won't an Amp as I don't know what you will settle down regarding hedaphones.
Regarding Sundaras (power/SINAD requirements) take a look at 4th post hire:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sundara-not-enough-amp-or-driver-issue.18865/

 

[JimmyBuckets]

Check JDS site for B-stock also. Brand new just small blemishes. Mine was B-stock and I couldn't even see what the issue was.

 

[Fetch_Execute_Break]

jdsl

@Fetch_Execute_Break I won't recommend you hedaphones as that depends on many subjective factors (liking, fit...) and so I won't an Amp as I don't know what you will settle down regarding hedaphones.
Regarding Sundaras (power/SINAD requirements) take a look at 4th post hire:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sundara-not-enough-amp-or-driver-issue.18865/

Thank you for this link, very helpful!

I am interested in the Sundaras for a long time because they seem to be very good "multi-genre" headphones ( Subreddit HeadphoneAdvice says).
And it looks like the Atom amp has the specs to drive them (1 Watt per Channel with better SINAD value than needed).

 

[charleski]

Allow me to let you into the Great Hidden Truth of Audio Electronics:
All this stuff sounds the same.

The JDS gear will be fine for your headphones, so will the offerings from Topping and Schiit. Just buy whichever looks nicest to you, or is cheapest, or has the best warranty support in your country.