I absolutely Love Measurements. I like reading about them, I like taking them, I love that level of investigation. I ENJOY that aspect of audio (and in many other topics/arenas)
In my experience with lots of other people, it is rare to find comradery. Far less folks I meet are into measuring/dissecting stuff -
regarding anything - including audio measurements. Yet nearly everyone I meet listens to music and many of them even are very passionate about music.
I watched that video.
It is the only video by the reviewer I have ever seen, and therefore the only one I can currently comment on, I have no idea what else that dude is up to.
IMHO he does a great job explaining some important things about measurements, what very basically is going on in realm measurements and in speaker design to the general public. We are talking the not uncommon person, who might instantly have glazed eyes when the topic of measurements and such stuff comes up.
For that person that reviewer, IMHO is actually introducing them to the basic validly of measurements and that within that there some inherent limitations. Again he is speaking toward someone who would not currently be excited by the content of ASR and similar sites that focus on measuring. Nor would such person spend time trying understand and interpret a spinorama or figure out a great new way to measure speaker IMD. That "common" person now has at least a modicum of understanding of the challenges in speaker design and purchase selection.
As a human very interested in measurements, I would be excited to get some of my friends to listen to me wax about speakers measurements in any fashion for 20 minutes.
Unfortunately he targeted Harman, which is a can of worms for some. Well that target makes sense to me as they are currently one notable top tier standard bearer for advocating certain principles and certainly many groups of Audiophiles have chosen to really promote the Harman approach as an elite level, measurement based approach. (and I would personally agree that they are that) He could have chosen Genelec or Neumann or any other brand focused on using using measurements to create a notably nuetral/prefered design. Many such brands are very small and generally unheard of. Zero of their products are for sale at BestBuy and Crutchfield so the huge Harman target is a good target to bounce off.
He also sort of propped up Klipsch, a brand known as not accurate and geared toward pissing off the neighbors sound. This of course is an attention getter if you don't like Klipsch much.
I must say that I am personally a huge fan of many current and recent Harman speaker products and other brands of speaker products that fall into the category of science based design used in service toward producing a perceived neutral response.
I have tried quite a few in my space.
I recommend them frequently.
Now, I have a ton of friends who are music junkies and even my GF and some close friends have worked worked deeply in the music industry. We get the good seats for free to nearly any concert we want here.
The point is that I am around folks who love music
and rarely does anyone what to chat about speaker gear design. There are many music lovers who are not turned on by that at all. Even folks who are interested in my speakers after hearing their favorite tunes on them don't want to chat for long about the why's and how's of the excellent sound, they just want to hear it.
Now does that mean they prefer a hack and slash designed garage speaker design over a Revel? (I doubt it,
& yet I can not say for sure.)
I think that Youtube video goes a long way toward reaching a typical music enthusiast (read not yet or perhaps not ever an audiophile, rather a passionate music lover who wants some guidance in buying decent speakers)
When I recommend speakers I take into account most of what that Tube reviewer discusses. In fact I agree with the vast majority of his general commentary and I think his girlfriends comments echo many actual people's ability to discuss this stuff. Meaning they really can't and don't really want to.
I bet she loves listening to all the different gear though and loves music.
They kind of remind of my situation. I listen often with my GF and she has really had a course in audio over that 4 years of our relationship. She loves it and she is a sweet heart who loves me so she get involved when I digress into speaker design and measurements. I know though that what she loves is trying all the gear and listening for herself. She has never pulled up a graph online and yet she always gets excited when a new box arrives.
I will say she loves when I have speaker parts everywhere and am in the yard making a DIY thing or inside using microphones running test tones, the activity is fun energy and she appreciates what goes into the art of audio. (yah, seriously I am one lucky Dude)
She has heard
a lot of stuff now and when discovering her favorites, they have been (regardless of price and price has varied a lot) speakers she described as having a "soul".
Additionally all of these models measure quite well. She has never liked a poorly measuring speaker, she notices flaws pretty accurately and changes I make to the sound and yet for her some speakers have a "soul" and others do not. Several well measuring models did not captivate her (nor I) and others did.
I will reiterate that never once did she ever ask to keep a speaker that did not turn out to have at least great basic measurements, nor did we always enjoy speakers that measure well equally and despite appreciating that sound was "good" we passed. (& I mean notably not equal as in I truely don't want them, even with Eq at play.)
Several of the commercial speakers we kept and the two pairs she liked the most were in fact contemporary Harman products, additionally a couple Harman products didn't make the "we love them" cut.
All in all though I admit to being impressed with their speaker gear.
Because I try a lot of gear my Gf and I, have the luxury of all this 1st hand experience for which I find it hard to believe there is any substitute.
Ideally I highly suggest people try multiple speakers/products in their own homes. I realize this may be a serious pain yet it is the only way IMHO to discover what you like well enough.
Since many folks are just not going to do that for one reason or another, what is the next best solution?
I currently have the KEF LS50 Meta, Focal Chora 806, and JBL-HDI-1600 in my apartment. All three have good, flattish measurements, but all three sound quite different due to their varying directivity. But again, they all sound good.
Per the usual your comments are fantastic and...
This.
While sounding good, all three sound different.
You must listen, which I felt/perceived was the point most strongly made in that Tube vid.
You are a professional reviewer and have many products come and go and you get paid for your time spent with them. Which one of these 3 do you recommend? I bet you recommend them all, but to different folks & I further my wager that you have a personal favorite that you would pick if like a "normal person" you had to live with that speaker and that speaker alone, for the next 5 years.
(*by the way I'd be really interested in hearing about which one of those three you would pick and why - I am thinking about buying a pair of HDI1600's OR L82's)
I am sorta like a mini reviewer due to trying so much gear and I have a pair or two that I would save in a fire and many others that I might actually be happy to claim insurance on despite the fact that they do sound good.
While hopefully all here @ ASR are truly lovers of sound and music, we are surely nerds. We are audiophile nerds and secretly want to be the next human with a Kipple being installed in our garage(man 1st I wish I had a real garage) and get pissed when reviews don't have spins and we might get immersed in the next issue of
Voice Coil test bench pondering raw drivers.
All these measurements here are way, way beyond what IMHO the typical buyer want to ingest & in no way is that lack of interest in the tests here a measure of their interest in listing to good sound. They want good sound not a membership in the audio club.
So how does one reach them with speakers that measure well, without talking about that, as talking about that will not help in this hypothetical case. (In fact it may even turn them off, yah)
As someone who writes excellent detailed reviews (& I mean yours are really wonderful and you clearly have a passion and a talent for them), how to do help someone chose a speaker in real life. Someone you meet or someone who is friend, not someone who is getting info from your published reviews - which for them may actually be far to nerdy and in depth. What is the most basic, basic stuff?
I don't think most people here want every speaker to sound exactly the same; we just want some basic standards and more honesty in how products are promoted with regards to their performance per price. Measurements provide much needed transparency.
I certainly agree with this & now what?
The experience of diminished return hits fast and hard now in audio. So many products are so good in affordable price ranges, IMHO such products would more than satisfy 95% of buyers.
It many cases the cost variation is most easily justified now in fit and finish and location of manufacture.
In theory for the purpose of creating a test example, if you are a PEQ user and a Harman score person, you can equalize a JBL A130 to nearly perform as well as an equalized KEF Meta. (6.5ish)
Now, we really need to listen to both speakers and find out what is what right?
$300(often on sale for $180) vs $1500.
Not the same fit and finish, perhaps equal sound quality.
I am not saying we should stop trying to make sense of the audio world and I deeply appreciate those who really invest in doing so. It just is so often a case of I want a Corvette and you want a CR-V and then the question is which one gets to the grocery store more accurately. hmmm...
Good thing you took a screenshot. That way when she accuses you of harassment and lying you can provide the evidence to the contrary. Ask me how I know.
Look I hope I am not way out of line when I ask who cares?
I am awaiting the next of your absolutely stellar reviews (of some pretty rad speakers), and I have no interest in that Dude's channel.
Yah they accused you of some stuff and deleted your post. I mean it is their channel on Youtube, they have the ability to ban folks from commenting as they see fit.
Their video IMHO wasn't that controversial (again I am not familiar with other vids by that crew) and they seem genuinely into audio, what is the big deal if they don't want to hang out?
At some point your channel is going to very popular and I can assure you, you will be banning some folks. They might be upset about it and feel mistreated but that is the reality.
