Sennheiser HD650 Review (Headphone)

[bobbooo]

Noticed a few people recommending the HD820- to me it sounded really off without EQ at least, enough for me to not want to use them even as a gift. Not sure why it's been tuned the way it is?
(Edit: Just saw how sensitive it is with glasses, could be the reason)

The main reason it sounds off is it has a pretty awful frequency response that's just all over the place really. Compare it with the much smoother, more balanced HD650:

The poor bass response consistency among different users (and with and without glasses as you say) doesn't help either. Again compare with the HD650 which has very consistent bass response. I get the feeling the HD820 was a rushed production instigated by ’success'(read: money)-obsessed Sennheiser executives wanting to repeat the commercial success of the exorbitantly overpriced & so high-profit HD800(S) in closed-back form at minimal cost to the company. I'm sure their acoustic engineers must have known you can't just turn the HD800(S) into a decent sounding closed-back headphone without fundamental, drastic (and costly) changes to the design, but I suspect the executives thought most users wouldn't be able to tell it's so bad with the unavoidable subconscious pricing and model number bias it elicits. Little did they know that industry-standard headphone frequency response measurements would soon become widely available to the public And hopefully sites like this will help push higher the demand for and popularity of such measurements among prospective buyers.

 

[Jimbob54]

The main reason it sounds off is it has a pretty awful frequency response that's just all over the place really. Compare it with the much smoother, more balanced HD650:

View attachment 101943

The poor bass response consistency among different users (and with and without glasses as you say) doesn't help either. Again compare with the HD650 which has very consistent bass response. I get the feeling the HD820 was a rushed production instigated by ’success'(read: money)-obsessed Sennheiser executives wanting to repeat the commercial success of the exorbitantly overpriced & so high-profit HD800(S) in closed-back form at minimal cost to the company. I'm sure their acoustic engineers must have known you can't just turn the HD800(S) into a decent sounding closed-back headphone without fundamental, drastic (and costly) changes to the design, but I suspect the executives thought most users wouldn't be able to tell it's so bad with the unavoidable subconscious pricing and model number bias it elicits. Little did they know that industry-standard headphone frequency response measurements would soon become widely available to the public And hopefully sites like this will help push higher the demand for and popularity of such measurements among prospective buyers.

Or, they wanted a higher bass version of the 800 (which they got) and either didn't care or couldn't fix the wild swings that brought to the right. Regardless of the "story", it's an ugly FR.

 

[bobbooo]

The one I heard had exceptionally good imaging, far better than any hd6x0. So I would not worry too much.

As you can see from other posts following yours, it looks like Rtings' HD560S unit showing up to ~5 dB channel imbalance (at 2 kHz, where our ears are more sensitive no less) was not a one-off, and these issues are not limited to that model either, with some HD650 units being affected too (including the unit Rtings measured). So much for their self-proclaimed 'precision German engineering' And people have a go at HifiMan for quality control...

 

[Dreyfus]

So much for their self-proclaimed 'precision German engineering'

 

[staticV3]

An interesting thing I have noticed. How "good" Harman EQd HP sound is HP dependant too. I use Oratory measurements and suggested EQ and it sounds "good" on some of my 'phones. Some I need to tweak a little. Others , nuh huh, no way, kills them . My HE560 really didnt work well. Whether this is due to unit variation between Oratory and my phones, or just the distortion that the EQ brings I know not. But its been a mixed bag so far.

In my experience with EQing headphones and IEMs I've learned to never commit to just one measurement source. The results vary so greatly from headphone to headphone that it's best to compare every preset that you can possibly find and not get comfortable with just one source.
Honestly, five different guys can measure the HD600, compensate for the same exact Harman 2018 target, publish PEQ settings, and they'll all sound noticeably different. And once you've found the one preset that sounds best, you can repeat the process with another headphone and suddenly, your favorite measurement source will sound terrible and some other will give better results.
If anything, then I've found rtings and reference audio analyzer to give the consistently best results, though that's not saying much.

 

[bobbooo]

View attachment 102077

Not sure if you're lampooning anti-China rhetoric, or espousing it...Just in case it's the latter, note that only assembly of the HD560S is done in China, and the HD650 are made in Europe, both of which have exhibited channel mismatch, so these quality control issues can't be pinned on 'made in China' stereotypes. In contrast, I haven't seen such issues being reported of HifiMan units (in fact quite the opposite), which are of course, designed, made and assembled in...China.

 

[Helicopter]

I wonder what the tolerance for channel mismatch on HD650 is considering they sent one back to customer as passing inspection without need for repair.

 

[solderdude]

Not sure if you're lampooning anti-China rhetoric, or espousing it...Just in case it's the latter, note that only assembly of the HD560S is done in China, and the HD650 are made in Europe, both of which have exhibited channel mismatch, so these quality control issues can't be pinned on 'made in China' stereotypes. In contrast, I haven't seen such issues being reported of HifiMan units (in fact quite the opposite), which are of course, designed, made and assembled in...China.

Hifiman indeed is one of the most consistent in channel matching.
Only the Edition S had channel imbalance. This is a dynamic one though.
The other dynamics I measured (Hifiman) all had exemplary channel matching.

That said I measured about twice as much Sennheisers and most of them had equally good channel matching.
Exceptions were HD600 (rolled off too soon in one channel), The mentioned dented driver HD650 which after repair was very good in LR matching.
The HD630VB (was considerably off, no longer produced). The HD700 was very slightly off (1dB) in the mids. The momentum OE was slightly off.
The Chinese made HD559 and HD599 I measured also had very good channel matching.

The HD560 was exemplary in channel balance. Sennheiser told me the one I received wasn't cherry picked (which I feared) but now I wonder.

I suspect numbers sold in headphones worldwide are most likely much bigger for Sennheiser so chances are people complaining and outliers existing is larger. Add to that the crisis in China producing the HD560S at the start of the launch probably meant the production may have turned a blind eye trying to meet the demand. I would hope tighter quality control in the future ?

 

[Dreyfus]

@bobbooo:
You can take it with sane humor.

If you ask me personally, I do have no illusions that european manufacturing can compete with the far east in price vs performance matters at high production speeds. Same thing with Beyerdynamic here in Germany. Our social ecosystem and (mostly) decentralized production network add to the price.

As for the channel matching, it all depends on the in-house QC regulations. That is not a matter of country, obviously.

 

[bobbooo]

@bobbooo:
You can take it with sane humor.

If you ask me personally, I do have no illusions that european manufacturing can compete with the far east in price vs performance matters at high production speeds. Same thing with Beyerdynamic here in Germany. Our social ecosystem and (mostly) decentralized production network add to the price.

As for the channel matching, it all depends on the in-house QC regulations. That is not a matter of country, obviously.

Funny you mention Beyerdynamic, as some of their models have pretty poor unit variation. Seems like the 'precision German engineering' stereotype is just as unfounded as the 'made in China' one.

 

[Dreyfus]

In times of Shenzhen, *EnterEuropeanCountryHere* Engineering is not competitive anymore. That's history.

Stereotypes ... well, what do you expect?

 

[greyscale]

What puzzles me about Amirs EQ. I believe he runs Roon through a RME ADI-2 dac. But, uses ROON eq instead of the ADI-2 EQ. Would be interesting were Amir to play ROON straight then EQ in the dac? Difference???

 

[Jimbob54]

What puzzles me about Amirs EQ. I believe he runs Roon through a RME ADI-2 dac. But, uses ROON eq instead of the ADI-2 EQ. Would be interesting were Amir to play ROON straight then EQ in the dac? Difference???

If he made exactly the same eq adjustments, should be no audible difference. Roon allows more bands and I imagine easier to tweak /flick on or off or indeed cycle between a few curves. But sonically, doubt any difference.

 

[the_brunx]

I still enjoy my sennheisers made in the 90's, still fully working like the first day, and a sound that is almost timeless and fully competitive, if not always rated the best headphone for its price up to today. and I know there are thousands of other people who have the same great experience using sennheisers. calling Sennheisers or beyerdynamics low quality is just absurd and won't stick. of course if I wanted to, I can dig in and find a fault with even the best product in the world. but Just look online to see how many people are satisfied with Sennheisers for decades in comparison to Hifiman which almost everybody seems to complain about build quality and reliability. and keep in mind sennheisers and beyerdynamics are used in professional settings as work horses, day in and day out, in studios, military, airports, etc. I don't even want to imagine the chaos which would ensue if airports were to equip air-traffic controllers and pilots with Hifimans.

 

[amirm]

What puzzles me about Amirs EQ. I believe he runs Roon through a RME ADI-2 dac. But, uses ROON eq instead of the ADI-2 EQ. Would be interesting were Amir to play ROON straight then EQ in the dac? Difference???

I don't know if there is a difference. What Roon allows me to do is quickly enter the parameters and edit them. And importantly name each EQ profile and save it. I can then come back to that setting at any time and don't lose it. As a reviewer I need to be able to keep track of countless EQ settings. As a user, that is not an issue and RME would work fine.

 

[Rottmannash]

Just to add to the killer bass tracks, I'll submit a favourite. There is no messing about here.
Ben Frost, Killshot from By The Throat.
https://benfrost.bandcamp.com/track/killshot

View attachment 101601

I may never fully recover from that. I couldn't tell if the distortion was inherent or being produced by my amp or HPs. Discordant.

 

[Rottmannash]

It's true you get brain burn in & so get used to a certain sounding headphone (or speaker for that matter) and then you would accept that as "normal", but the point is that just getting used to a sound is not the goal, in my experience getting used to proven good sound provides a more revealing/balanced experience (both speakers & headphones).

I've tried Diffuse Field EQ on my HD600 and I didn't like it......additionally Headphone Harman Curve sounds most similar & accurate to my Anechoically Flat EQ'd JBL 308p speakers (arranged in equilateral triangle to listening position). So, for me Headphone Harman Curve is more accurate as well as preferable to Diffuse Field EQ for headphones.

Question: what is "diffuse field EQ"?

 

[Francis Vaughan]

I couldn't tell if the distortion was inherent

I think a lot of the distortion is inherent. You can hear the charateristic sound of a big pro bass driver. Ben Frost is more organic in his noise making, and doesn't just run synth to track. He massages stuff and uses physical things. I heard him play live a few years ago. The entire building shook and rattled. It was quite fab.

 

[the_brunx]

And I can bet you, more often than not, your favorite audiophile test tracks to get the very best out of your Hifiman were recorded with a Neumann/ Sennheiser microphone. And many of the best drums, to get that “planar bass” were recorded with a beyerdynamic microphone including famous songs known for their iconic drums like the legendary drummer Phil Collin‘s, In the air tonight. (Which sparked the flood of the 80’s gated reverb drum sound) etc

 

[solderdude]

Question: what is "diffuse field EQ"?

Diffuse field EQ does not exist. What Robbo means is he removed the Harman Bass boost and slightly adjusted the treble a bit.

Diffuse field is a measurement method for calibrating HATS. The HATS is placed in an anechoic room with speakers all around it and the signal from the HATS is then measured resulting in the FR curve that looks the most like Harman minus the bass boost (which is derived by preference of a fixed frequency bass slider people could adjust to preference). That way an echoic room is 'emulated' somewhat and as this setup is described multiple HATS manufacturers can calibrate to that standard.

In the 'old' days and still today. People using HATS use the diffuse field method for headphones (for which it really isn't suited but you have to do something). At least it is better than using the other known correction method for measuring speakers.

So when a headphone manufacturer has developed a headphone using a calibrated HATS using diffuse field compensation and didn't even listen to it but relied on the measurements and 'f'-ed around with ports, pads and damping to get the bloody driver they had to measure well on their HATS with their incorrectly used diffuse field correction (by lack of something better) they say 'it is diffuse field tuned' but no EQ has been used. Only the 'wrong' correction has been chosen.