Topping D70s MQA Review (DAC)

[PeteL]

You are correct, you moved to discussing listening levels, or how digital streaming levels are not optimised, neither belongs to this thread. I was just proving that a 2 Volt input to a power amplifier is almost always enough. As more will clip the amplifier.

@JohnYang1997 @amirm and others, is there a DAC out there that has digital pre-gain?

I do not think you completely understood my point but it's ok, a 2 Volts input would clip some lower powered amplifier, but the fact that you provide the possibility of 2 or 4 volts, doesn't mean that the highest peaks in the content being played do reach this voltage. Ideally, optimally, yes.

 

[Tks]

I have ADI2 pro FS R BE. It feels really good here but from different perspective you get different answers. We see lots of complaints of poor rotary encoder for our products. And the result is actually better overall(not best for individuals) on D70 and D90 that's why it's on D70s as well. And on cheaper products we can afford people having issues and return and sending new ones or simply some people will tolerate it better for lower price. For higher price the point where the chassis, components prices shoot way up that don't leave much room for cheap components to be expensive. 16 dollars = 10+ opa1612's. That's insane TBH, although it's new and cheapER than magnetic types which are easily 30+ dollars and don't have stock. So yeah, it's an option. But honestly is it any better than relay based volume control? We are integrating it to newer products. And if you look around it's certainly what's actually being done by other manufacturers on headphone amps. We can probably leave the volume control to the next stage. I know it's not ideal in all circumstances, preamp is also expensive. But to some extent it's a good balance.
Anyways, people are spoiled. They can't have everything and having it being cheap.

PS: Does anyone know D70s actually cost more than D90 and having the same or better performance for the most part?

Double PS: Do people also know that USD dropped a lot during this year? It's sad but. That's the reality.

Will we one day see a competitor to the Pro BE? You know I gotta pester you every few months or so about a new Dac+Amp.

Oh and how's that power amp coming along?

 

[sarumbear]

I do not think you completely understood my point but it's ok, a 2 Volts input would clip some lower powered amplifier, but the fact that you provide the possibility of 2 or 4 volts, doesn't mean that the highest peaks in the content being played do reach this voltage. Ideally, optimally, yes.

As listeners we have no say in the content’s levels. You need pre-amplification to compensate for non-optimum program material, which is neither DAC’s nor power amplifier’s job.

 

[PeteL]

As listeners we have no say in the content’s levels. You need pre-amplification to compensate for non-optimum program material, which is neither DAC’s nor power amplifier’s job.

That was my point from the start, it's the preamps job.

 

[sarumbear]

That was my point from the start, it's the preamps job.

Then I apologise for not understanding.

My listening repertoire is almost all professionally mastered music, which has optimised levels and there’s no need for pre-amplification. I do however know that, this is not the case on most unmastered streaming material like the ones on YouTube.

 

[Harmonie]

Just adding to the display design, contrast the graphics on the MiniDSP SDH with the D70s. These are products that pretty much sitting in the same quality space. Yet one looks slick, is very legible, and looks reasonably modern. The other is blocky, looks dated, and looks cheap. Yet they may well be using the same part. The additional mess of inconsistent and useless labelling on the D70s is also obvious. (We don't actually need to see the technical specification on the front panel. That again is the sort of thing one associates with cheap designs that some how need to show off.)

 

[infinitesymphony]

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Perhaps the Okto dac8 looks so good because it has a centered volume knob (shameless thread plug).

 

[sam_adams]

Perhaps the Okto dac8 looks so good because it has a centered volume knob (shameless thread plug).

It also has a trigger out...

 

[StefaanE]

What's the typeface's relation with Oled ?
It's purely a taste matter.

But true, I like the one of the Okto . But I won't change my D90 for that reason.

OLED is like a small computer display, made up of non-dedicated pixels. Traditional audio device displays have bespoke display areas, e.g. for the tracks on a CD player, so they have a fixed layout and content. With an OLED (or comparable technologies), you can do as you please when it comes to what you display and how you display it.
I agree that it’s a matter of taste, and I said as much is my original post.
To reformulate using your reference to the Okto, which uses a sans-serif typeface, how does it come that many Chinese manufacturers use an awfully unbalanced serif typeface (like I said, with narrow stems and too heavy serifs) when the Chinese culture has calligraphy as an appreciated art form. Think of street calligraphy with water, for example. It could be that the intricate, complex shapes of Chinese ideograms makes Chinese appreciate serifs more than we(sterners) do, but that’s just my crackpot theory.

Of course, it’s nice that these DACs are so good, all I can do is nitpick on typefaces.

 

[deafenears]

how does it come that many Chinese manufacturers use an awfully unbalanced serif typeface (like I said, with narrow stems and too heavy serifs) when the Chinese culture has calligraphy as an appreciated art form. Think of street calligraphy with water, for example. It could be that the intricate, complex shapes of Chinese ideograms makes Chinese appreciate serifs more than we(sterners) do, but that’s just my crackpot theory.

There's artists and there's engineers... it isn't just a Chinese thing, it's just that we're seeing more audio products coming out of China these days.

 

[StefaanE]

There's artists and there's engineers... it isn't just a Chinese thing, it's just that we're seeing more audio products coming out of China these days.

You’re probably right. This reminds me of the very important life lesson my mathematics professor taught me when he gave me full marks for a three page long, correct proof of a theorem, with the comment “Why simple when complex is an option”. The “official” proof, mentioned two pages later in our manual, takes five lines. It’s one of these moments when one feels both stupid and clever at the same time. I stuck, I think hope.

 

[Honken]

Thanks for the review of yet another review of a solid product from Topping!

As for displays and typefaces, personally the biggest noticable upgrade moving from a D70 to an DAC8, apart from more channels, was the ability to turn the display completely off on the latter. Once I'm done faffing with the volume or input, I just want the display to disappear. That said, the legibility of the display on the Okto from my listening position is much better than that of the D70, while it is still on that is.

 

[digicidal]

It also has a trigger out...

A very inexpensive option which is sadly missing on so many devices these days. Sure many alternatives exist on the amplification side for "sleep" or "auto-on" etc. based on signal presence, but they are far from reliable (esp. with music which starts at a very low level). And add-on external solutions are imperfect, expensive (for this case), and ugly (subjectively of course).

 

[nighteagle]

Does the D90 without mqa still use the xu208 or has it been upgraded to the xu216?

Feel like its difficult to choose atm. Its like good apples vs good apples

However with the d90 vs the d70s i feel the d90 is the better choice since in pure dac mode the d90 delivers 4v XLR. But the D70s carries a better price. Maybe there is a d90s in the works? The d30 pro who is in production also looks promising. What dac is in the d30 pro?

 

[Harmonie]

To reformulate using your reference to the Okto, which uses a sans-serif typeface, how does it come that many Chinese manufacturers use an awfully unbalanced serif typeface (like I said, with narrow stems and too heavy serifs) when the Chinese culture has calligraphy as an appreciated art form.

"Many Chinese " ??
I think you make a generalisation ....

 

[StefaanE]

"Many Chinese " ??
I think you make a generalisation ....

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Well, I didn’t say “all”, so there’s no reason to talk about generalisations. My observations aren’t limited to typefaces on audio devices either. Quite often, when using the Latin alphabet, Chinese computer product notices, manuals and schematics use what I find the particularly ugly serif typeface also used by Topping. Whenever I notice this, the question I ask myself is how a culture which so values beautiful characters manages to choose a typeface that many Westerners (at least myself and all the ones I consulted) find unbalanced and ugly.

 

[sarumbear]

...the question I ask myself is how a culture which so values beautiful characters manages to choose a typeface that many Westerners (at least myself and all the ones I consulted) find unbalanced and ugly.

Maybe because they use a different alphabet and do not pay attention to the subtle differences in how our letters are formed. I’m sure we don’t see the subtle differences in theirs. In fact almost none of us even recognise any of their letters!

 

[nighteagle]

I just ordered the d70s to replace my topping d50s. Going to use it with my A90. Could not wait any longer . Guess I should use it with -1.5db on DAC or -2db? I see wolf used -1.5 and amirm used -2.

 

[Atanasi]

How much does the device weight? It appears larger and heavier than D90.

 

[Atanasi]

I just ordered the d70s to replace my topping d50s. Going to use it with my A90. Could not wait any longer . Guess I should use it with -1.5db on DAC or -2db? I see wolf used -1.5 and amirm used -2.

You don't have to use any attenuation. It's just there to get the 4 V output level for reviews.