MM vs MI vs MC

[watchnerd]

Uh, yeah, that would explain why your test record 'turned white' from too much playing.

I don't recall whether I used the SPU on it or not, TBH.

Regardless, I had to try an SPU once in my life to understand what all the fuss is about.

I still don't think I understand, but maybe it has to be used on a big idler drive TT.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

One of the music torture tests I regularly use to hear how cartridges track is on Duke Ellington's Jazz Party, side 2, possibly the 2nd track (this is on the high quality reissue/remastering). There's a place where Dizzy's muted trumpet gets really high and loud on one note and I can imagine the tortured things the stylus must be going through. That would make the NOS cartridges I had throw fits.

 

[watchnerd]

VM540ML has arrived.

Thank the maker for Audio Technica offering very good quality headshells at a reasonable price that, most importantly, come pre-threaded for screws.

 

[watchnerd]

One of the music torture tests I regularly use to hear how cartridges track is on Duke Ellington's Jazz Party, side 2, possibly the 2nd track (this is on the high quality reissue/remastering). There's a place where Dizzy's muted trumpet gets really high and loud on one note and I can imagine the tortured things the stylus must be going through. That would make the NOS cartridges I had throw fits.

I've got 13 Duke records, but not that one.

Which pressing do you have?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I've got 13 Duke records, but not that one.

Which pressing do you have?

I got it through acoustic sounds. From what I hear it's an audiophile favorite.

 

[watchnerd]

I got it through acoustic sounds. From what I hear it's an audiophile favorite.

Oh, like "Jazz at the Pawnshop"?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Oh, like "Jazz at the Pawnshop"?

I guess something like that but I'm sure the music is more listenable.

 

[watchnerd]

Returning to the original topic:

Going entirely by ear, I'm not discerning a difference between the MP-500 and VM540ML that can't be explained either as the result of freq response differences (influenced heavily by loading) or tracking differences (influenced by stylus shape).

If there is some audible difference that is attributable directly to a difference in motor type between "true MM" (VM540ML) and MI/MP (MP-500) I can't say I've heard it yet.

Maybe I don't know what to listen for, or haven't hit the right playback conditions yet...

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I guess something like that but I'm sure the music is more listenable.

The track on the Duke Ellington Jazz Party is 'U.M.M.G', at 1:12 into the track. This album in on streaming so you can see if you like the album before spring for the vinyl.

 

[watchnerd]

The track on the Duke Ellington Jazz Party is 'U.M.M.G', at 1:12 into the track. This album in on streaming so you can see if you like the album before spring for the vinyl.

33 RPM, not 45 RPM version, I assume?

It comes in both flavors.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

33 RPM, not 45 RPM version, I assume?

It comes in both flavors.

Mine's at 33. Its a pretty good recording but it has some recording-session compression in the brass. Listen to it on streaming to see if it sounds good enough for the 45. I have a number of 45s, but my purchasing bar is pretty high to spring for them.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Just for the heck of it and since I already had this patched in, I ran a spectrum of the 'silent band' on side two of the Ultimate Analog test disc. This measurement is not weighted to any curve, so it shows just what came from the turntable - I've never seen an un-weighted rumble specification for any turntable; I've only seen weighted ones.

0dB on the graph is the 1kHz zero reference tone on the disc and the rumble is relative to that. I don't know what reference level the manufacturers use for these tests. When playing this track, there is nothing rumble-wise that I can hear from my speakers, and the subwoofers are motionless, so that is good enough for me.

Note; my phono preamp does not have a traditional high pass on the low end like most other ones. The LF pole on this preamp is something in the vicinity of 1 or 2 Hz, so the spectrum is picking up far subsonic stuff way below the audio band down to 10Hz.

Anyway, here it is:

 

[watchnerd]

Just for the heck of it and since I already had this patched in, I ran a spectrum of the 'silent band' on side two of the Ultimate Analog test disc. This measurement is not weighted to any curve, so it shows just what came from the turntable - I've never seen an un-weighted rumble specification for any turntable; I've only seen weighted ones.

0dB on the graph is the 1kHz zero reference tone on the disc and the rumble is relative to that. I don't know what reference level the manufacturers use for these tests. When playing this track, there is nothing rumble-wise that I can hear from my speakers, and the subwoofers are motionless, so that is good enough for me.

Note; my phono preamp does not have a traditional high pass on the low end like most other ones. The LF pole on this preamp is something in the vicinity of 1 or 2 Hz, so the spectrum is picking up far subsonic stuff way below the audio band down to 10Hz.

Anyway, here it is:

View attachment 101964

So -50 dB, or better, below the reference signal?

Do you have a subsonic filter?

 

[watchnerd]

Mine's at 33. Its a pretty good recording but it has some recording-session compression in the brass. Listen to it on streaming to see if it sounds good enough for the 45. I have a number of 45s, but my purchasing bar is pretty high to spring for them.

Just listened to it...it's a good performance, classic Ellington / Hodges, but recording quality-wise, I'd probably skip the 45 version, personally.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm now on my 4th LP with the new VM540ML.

Do we think it's broken-in yet?

(ducks)

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

So -50 dB, or better, below the reference signal?

Do you have a subsonic filter?

There is NO subsonic filter either in the capture or on the preamp. The preamp goes all the way down to 1 or 2Hz flat along what would be an extension to the RIAA curve.

It is -50dB below zero reference, but that is at 10Hz. Any other preamp would be way down by that frequency. I have no way to compare this raw measurement with the weighted measurements used by manufacturers, but it seems plenty good enough for me. By the way, since this is a ceramic rather than magnetic cartridge, in theory it should be able to respond down to DC, although they might have some high pass in there somewhere. Its really a shame that no other manufacturers picked up on manufacturing cartridges like this, and Micro Acoustics is long gone. The operating principle makes so much technical sense, and there are several advantages I can see.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Just listened to it...it's a good performance, classic Ellington / Hodges, but recording quality-wise, I'd probably skip the 45 version, personally.

One of my favorites that I have the 45 version of is the first Wes Montgomery album. Great music, great sound.

 

[watchnerd]

One of my favorites that I have the 45 version of is the first Wes Montgomery album. Great music, great sound.

This one?

https://www.discogs.com/Wes-Montgomery-The-Incredible-Jazz-Guitar-Of-Wes-Montgomery/master/82207

It must not be, as I don't see 45 rpm listed, and I *thought* that was his first album, but I must be wrong.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

This one?

https://www.discogs.com/Wes-Montgomery-The-Incredible-Jazz-Guitar-Of-Wes-Montgomery/master/82207

It must not be, as I don't see 45 rpm listed, and I *thought* that was his first album, but I must be wrong.

No that's not it. The one I have has a yellow background with a watercolor type picture of the trio. I got it at acoustic sounds. In the liner notes they talk about West Montgomery being a new discovery so I assumed it's the first album. I could be wrong but it's a good album regardless.

 

[watchnerd]

No that's not it. The one I have has a yellow background with a watercolor type picture of the trio. I got it at acoustic sounds. In the liner notes they talk about West Montgomery being a new discovery so I assumed it's the first album. I could be wrong but it's a good album regardless.

Hmmm...well, here's his discography:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/129805-Wes-Montgomery?page=1