Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[MZKM]

Are you directly entering in the data to the spreadsheet from Listen Inc. I linked to in this post to calculate the score?

No.
I went to download, which requires you to register, which I do, then nothing happens.

 

[Chagall]

Amusing but ridiculous. Headphones don't have any adjustments unless you buy an extra device and learn how to use more software.
Also a TV which does look shite out of the box probably is shite - like headphone that sound shite out of the box.

Pretty much every TV or monitor needs to be calibrated for any kind of color critical work (at any price point). Some pro monitors come with color calibration hardware included like Eizo, but they are incredibly expensive.

As you said, designers use color calibrators, but usually no one cares about out of the box perfomance - only post calibrated results.
So, sorry, but saying every monitor, TV or headphone is shite out of the box - reads to me just as arrongant and flamey.
Especially for headphones, because "calibration" can be done for free.

Anyway, this tread isn't about to EQ or not to EQ.
All I take away from this tread is that HD 800s can be EQed without adding distortion or losing something in the process.
If it ticks both boxes it's should be on to hear / buy list.

 

[Maki]

Nice! I also have all the classics and like them for different reasons.

To me EQ is not about making them all sound the same (i.e. rendering their FR as close to an ideal as possible) but to "fix" their main shortcomings. The idea that through EQ you can manipulate the FR as you wish is just silly. These are mechanical systems we are talking about, not electronic signals! EQ can only amend the FR of headphones in broad strokes.

I see a lot of PEQ settings with silly values as Q>5 and gains>15dB. I know that those settings will just end up sounding grotesquely bad.

Take PQE as car tuning, you can improve car performance WHITIN A RANGE .But you can't tune a Honda Civic into a Porsche GT, if you try you will only end up with an unbalanced monster. Besides, if you put the same effort into the Porsche there wouldn't be any comparison. And if for a y reason you actually beat the Porsche to the finish line (i.e. the FR in our case), you still didn't have the "Porsche experience" (sound stage, layering, etc in our case). Note that these last elements are in fact objectively measurable (easy and more exciting handling for example) just not by the lap times.

There is nothing wrong with high Q values if you know what you're doing (in other words, you make sure the peak you're trying to kill isn't position dependent, or you make sure to put the headphones in exactly the same spot each time). Gains above 15dB are pushing it especially in the bass for some headphones. But as long as you stay within +/- 15dB or so pretty much everything is fair game. That being said, I agree some headphones just can't be EQ'd into sounding good no matter how hard I try.

 

[Frank Dernie]

So, sorry, but saying every monitor, TV or headphone is shite out of the box - reads to me just as arrongant and flamey.
Especially for headphones, because "calibration" can be done for free.

I read the TV comment as arrogant and flamey, hence my somewhat tongue in cheek reply.
I take the point that headphones can be made to sound better by equalising them but I would rather have some which sounded good to me as designed and manufactured so I don'tr have to carry around a box of electronics to enjoy listening to them.
I appreciate that even before so many countries became almost exclusively internet purchasing it was hard to audition a reasonable range of headphones for oneself though.

 

[Robbo99999]

I made a hack to quickly measure it. Results weren't fit for publication (have to try another method) but order of magnitude was about 35% THD around 30 to 40 Hz. Before anyone panics , I routinely see distortion approaching and even going past 100% with speakers in such low frequencies.

The difficulty I have in measuring this is that there is no way to export the Roon EQ and import it in the audio precision. I would have to manually rebuild the filters in AP software which is not exact or fun.

Does the AP software use "biquads" then? Just a hunch. My miniDSP 2x4 can have filters entered either in normal basic format (the PEQ we know), or it can be added in biquad format (which is the format that REW exports when set to miniDSP format). If your AP software uses biquad format, then maybe you could just put the filters into REW and then export it as a miniDSP format....then you can copy & paste the biquads into the AP software. This is just a hunch, no idea how AP Software works.

 

[Robbo99999]

Yes I have the HE4XX, the soundstage is great. And yes its distortion is nice and low:

So it will give you no problems when EQing the bass up to the Harman target. (Unlike the 35% post-EQ distortion of the 'TOTL' HD800S here. Lolz.) Oratory has also said the HE4XX units he measured had very little variation between them, so EQ based on his measurements should be nicely accurate.

I've tried the K702 but only without EQ, and felt like its large soundstage was a bit artificial (probably due to the somewhat wonky stock tonality though), and that the HE4XX's soundstage sounds more natural (but I wouldn't trust that comparison really).

Excellent, this is a very good omen for my HE4xx purchase, as long as it doesn't skimp on soundstage vs the K702 then it's probably gonna be a better headphone, and therefore will be my final headphone.

EDIT: unless smoothness of frequency response is a big factor, K702 is quite smooth without lots of little variations, whereas HE4xx has a bit more "fine grass" action!

 

[kohlerm]

I only listen to headphones on the move.
I have tried loads of mobile players over the last 30 years but don't like carrying more than I have to.
I remain a Google and Microsoft free zone for a couple of reasons (I started programming 50 years ago and have a long memory) so it looks like I am going to have to stick the headphones I like without EQ since the only thing I am prepared to carry is my old iPhone.

There are equalizers for phones (even with profiles for certain head phones, Wavelet for Android for example). Not sure whether there is anything for your old Iphone.

 

[kohlerm]

With regards to Equalizers, what are you guys using/recommending?

It would be mostly interested in software based ones.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

AKG K701 is not AKG K702. The K702 has angled pads, the K701 does not.

Sorry, going to have to pull you on this. My K701 are stock, bought new some years ago. 10? more? Ive just dug them out and they most definitely have angled pads. Same as K702? well no, but depending on who you read, very similar https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...s-and-the-rest-to-stop-this-confusion.752994/

I believe the 702 and 701 both use the same pads. EDIT- AKG sell different items / price - definitely different colour, cant discern shape or materials used. @solderdude do you know if AKG 701/702 pads are physically different?

EDIT 2 : I EQ my 4XX to Oratory Harman and, frankly, to these ears they dont get near the K701 for openness and staging- with some quick swapping at least. Be interested to hear your thoughts and comparisons with your 702's when you get them. Best description I can give of 4XX is "lumpier" or "deader" - for whatever that is worth.

 

[threni]

With regards to Equalizers, what are you guys using/recommending?

It would be mostly interested in software based ones.

Schiit Loki Mini on my main system; alsaequal on the portable. Both purely for headphone purposes; the amp/dac is pretty flat in both cases.

 

[Doodski]

This list is a work in progress for a couple of days now and might have something EQish that you enjoy.

 

[kohlerm]

This list is a work in progress for a couple of days now and might have something EQish that you enjoy.

awesome!

 

[Frank Dernie]

There are equalizers for phones (even with profiles for certain head phones, Wavelet for Android for example). Not sure whether there is anything for your old Iphone.

Exactly. The post to which i was replying listed zero suitable for iOS.
I have moved away from Android for good.

 

[pkane]

I only listen to headphones on the move.
I have tried loads of mobile players over the last 30 years but don't like carrying more than I have to.
I remain a Google and Microsoft free zone for a couple of reasons (I started programming 50 years ago and have a long memory) so it looks like I am going to have to stick the headphones I like without EQ since the only thing I am prepared to carry is my old iPhone.

I don't get it. Neutron player is an app that runs on iPhone, Android, etc., that does an excellent job of EQ among hundreds of other functions, like crossfeed, plus a ton more. I've been using it for years. Is it really too heavy to carry?

I read the TV comment as arrogant and flamey, hence my somewhat tongue in cheek reply.

I think you're taking this too seriously. That comment was simply sarcastic. If you read arrogant or flamey into it, you didn't read as it was intended.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Neutron player

Never heard of it, will look into it

 

[lxlx]

So after reading 23 pages, is the science gone from ASR here? Are we back to subjective score boards and spaciousness, clarity, thing? :/
Measurements alone do not tell the whole story? Although curves look alike, the he4xx must be worse than HD800?
Please say no

 

[PenguinMusic]

Effort requires change... I guess the easy answer is to consider other options than the "small dedicated music box that plays my files."
I can think of many options which allow portable PEQ use.... Really there are a LOT...
Your point is like saying "I would like to try chocolate flavor but I just like strawberry" or like buying a car for its looks but with a crappy engine and wishing it would go faster. Willingness to spend money doesn't equal willingness to buy what is needed.

The truth is that I would change to a player/steamer/Dac/ etc which would allow PEQ. At this level this is a must have feature. I mean I'm sure you wouldn't consider your current setup as viable if it wouldn't play your favorite source files. To me PEQ is THAT important because of the major gains it brings to the table.

I can't show you a path with the info you gave me, but I assure you: there are options...

Hi,

Any recommandations about a small player, not too expensive, that can do what you're saying ?

I'm ready to get it if I can get if without sacrifiicing a kidney

I'd be glad to consider it... to see what EQ can add to my listening experience and improve it.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

So after reading 23 pages, is the science gone from ASR here? Are we back to subjective score boards and spaciousness, clarity, thing? :/
Measurements alone do not tell the whole story? Although curves look alike, the he4xx must be worse than HD800?
Please say no

It's a quandary alright.

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

So after reading 23 pages, is the science gone from ASR here? Are we back to subjective score boards and spaciousness, clarity, thing? :/
Measurements alone do not tell the whole story? Although curves look alike, the he4xx must be worse than HD800?
Please say no

I own the 800 (non S) and the 4xx, both eq to the same target. I'd pick the 800 to listen to every time.

The real question is how much of that preference is fit /feel, how much my sighted snobbery and how much is related to "sound"?

 

[kohlerm]

So after reading 23 pages, is the science gone from ASR here? Are we back to subjective score boards and spaciousness, clarity, thing? :/
Measurements alone do not tell the whole story? Although curves look alike, the he4xx must be worse than HD800?
Please say no

I don't think science goes away if some people like more bass than others. E.g. comparing it or tuning it to a certain curve is just fine for me. That being said. are we sure that an IEM with the same curve sounds the same as a huge headphone like the tests Sennheiser?