Sennheiser HD800S Review (Headphone)

[sweetchaos]

I would add that before discovering ASR, I wouldn't have considered EQ filters for headphones.
The members here have changed my perspective, and since trying EQ filters and loving the instant improvements, now I can't listen to headphones without them.

My 2 cents.

 

[pkane]

since everybody loves EQ in this thread I just had to come and say I hate the idea of EQ.

if you dislike how your headphones sound just replace them with some other headphones.

or chose one of your pairs depending on your mood/music.

I have all the classics - HD650, K712, DT880 (pro 250 Ohm and special 600 Ohm versions) and more - they are all very different and while you could try to make them sound sort of like each other with EQ, it would defeat the point.

also pretty sure frequency response does not show the full picture. for example, AKG K712 supposedly has a very similar frequency response to HD800, but can you hear all the details and separate instruments as easily?

I always replace any TV I buy that doesn't have the right color balance out of the box. I mean, why would I bother adjusting it? I'd rather keep shopping until I find one that matches my exact preferences..

 

[Robbo99999]

Then has our host also succumbed to the hype?

"It manages to provide a spooky layering and I guess I should say clarity that is not only surprisingly but delightful. I don't know if the effect will be too much if it comes across a lot of music but so far, I can't help but liking it and liking it a lot."

I don't think either this or @solderdude language out of place when describing the sonics of a pair of headphones.

Just reading the many comments on this and other threads suggests there are some qualities that the measurements we see here don't cover. Worthy of further study for sure. We may have to tolerate some less than objective descriptors. For now.

I think Amir's description is based on known possible headphone qualities, "layering" and "clarity" are descriptions that have an anchor in headphone & speaker terminology, which is not the same as saying "I like to call this 'effortless sound'".....so I think there's a distinction there. Yes, I agree there are some qualities that I don't think are tied to the measurements here.....characterising soundstage in measurements would be a worthy endeavour if it is possible, rtings tried to do so, and there might be something to rtings soundstage ratings.....but yeah I don't think we have all the measurement parameters that describe all the good qualities that a headphone can have.

(For what it's worth I don't think @solderdude has succumbed to the hype, just his post could be read that way....I'm pretty certain he likes the 800s because it's delivered the best experience for him out of all his headphones he's tried (which is a lot))

 

[solderdude]

it's possible I'd like the 800s more than my K702, but I couldn't ever see myself spending £1400 on a headphone....so cheaper alternatives that can do all of the good things that an 800s can do (almost to the same degree, or perhaps better, who knows), then that's a good thing to highlight cheaper alternatives.

Yes I totally agree, I had set a limit for myself not spending more than 400 Euros on a headphone. Having auditioned and measured many expensive and cheaper ones the best 'SQ' to me personally were HD800 (with EQ) and just waited to buy one secondhand but is certainly not the highest VFM.
When the HD800S was launched some folks started ditching the HD800 and could secure one for only 650 Euros. Annoyingly found some later sold for 500 Euros.. grrr.

Never regretted this purchase though. Secretly using other headphones more frequently though... but don't tell anyone... they might want to know what headphones they are but that's really irrelevant as that what I like others may hate and rankings tell me I'm wrong.

In other words .. everyone should use what they prefer. Just look at the thread https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/what-headphone-s-do-you-own.4285/ to find out that everyone prefers something different. It shows there is no 'best' headphone but there are some that people really like. They aren't the same ones though and on 'ranking lists' you can find them in all positions.

When my budget now would be E 300.- tops and could only own 1 headphone it would be another headphone for musical enjoyment (but torn between some models), but those may not be what you, Bobboo, Amir or other folks prefer. That's life.

 

[amirm]

No indeed it isn't, so the question is why drag the price of a better performing HP into the equation in the first place?

Indeed it was a rude remark that those of us who are reviewing products objectively and routinely put down expensive products and cheer cheap products based purely on performance need a "reminder" that cost must have biased us.

 

[Feelas]

since everybody loves EQ in this thread I just had to come and say I hate the idea of EQ.

if you dislike how your headphones sound just replace them with some other headphones.

or chose one of your pairs depending on your mood/music.

I have all the classics - HD650, K712, DT880 (pro 250 Ohm and special 600 Ohm versions) and more - they are all very different and while you could try to make them sound sort of like each other with EQ, it would defeat the point.

also pretty sure frequency response does not show the full picture. for example, AKG K712 supposedly has a very similar frequency response to HD800, but can you hear all the details and separate instruments as easily?

Yes, but why exactly would you avoid EQ? This is audios mass-market suit tailoring business, albeit the one where you can tailor it at home and not risk losing much. I'd not cut a suit myself, but simple EQ is effortless.

Topping clarity & separation shouldn't be an end to itself, on the other hand.

 

[amirm]

i really want to know what happen to the distortion when you turn up the sub bass, i think they gonna rise up but how much?

I made a hack to quickly measure it. Results weren't fit for publication (have to try another method) but order of magnitude was about 35% THD around 30 to 40 Hz. Before anyone panics , I routinely see distortion approaching and even going past 100% with speakers in such low frequencies.

The difficulty I have in measuring this is that there is no way to export the Roon EQ and import it in the audio precision. I would have to manually rebuild the filters in AP software which is not exact or fun.

 

[Ron Texas]

I don't understand anyone who is unhappy about using EQ or anything else in the review. We are getting first class measurements for free. The instruments are top flight and @amirm knows what he is doing. Go someplace else and argue about wires if you don't like it.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Nice, fix the lower bass in headphones is a lot of fun =)

 

[Degru]

I made a hack to quickly measure it. Results weren't fit for publication (have to try another method) but order of magnitude was about 35% THD around 30 to 40 Hz. Before anyone panics , I routinely see distortion approaching and even going past 100% with speakers in such low frequencies.

The difficulty I have in measuring this is that there is no way to export the Roon EQ and import it in the audio precision. I would have to manually rebuild the filters in AP software which is not exact or fun.

Would it be possible to export the measurement signal as a WAV and play it back through Roon?

 

[amirm]

Would it be possible to export the measurement signal as a WAV and play it back through Roon?

That was the "hack." The problem is that there is special signal processing I use in the actual measurements to lower impact of noise. For some reason AP software won't allow me to do the same when the signal is being played by Roon asynchronously. So the results showed a lot of noise in upper range frequencies. Looking at the frequency response it measured in this mode, there was ringing in low frequencies as well which indicated more of the problem. It was not bad in getting a feel for the overall distortion but I didn't want to post it and create non-issues. With time maybe I can come up with a more refined scheme.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

That was the "hack." The problem is that there is special signal processing I use in the actual measurements to lower impact of noise. For some reason AP software won't allow me to do the same when the signal is being played by Roon asynchronously. So the results showed a lot of noise in upper range frequencies. Looking at the frequency response it measured in this mode, there was ringing in low frequencies as well which indicated more of the problem. It was not bad in getting a feel for the overall distortion but I didn't want to post it and create non-issues. With time maybe I can come up with a more refined scheme.

i would love to see that, thank you for your time =)

 

[Erispedia]

since everybody loves EQ in this thread I just had to come and say I hate the idea of EQ.

if you dislike how your headphones sound just replace them with some other headphones.

or chose one of your pairs depending on your mood/music.

I have all the classics - HD650, K712, DT880 (pro 250 Ohm and special 600 Ohm versions) and more - they are all very different and while you could try to make them sound sort of like each other with EQ, it would defeat the point.

also pretty sure frequency response does not show the full picture. for example, AKG K712 supposedly has a very similar frequency response to HD800, but can you hear all the details and separate instruments as easily?

Well, that's the ideal scenario, using headphones without EQ. But in reality, that isn't easy. The only IEM I know that works with various genres without EQ is 64 Audio U12t. I've yet to find headphone that fit my preference without EQ. Maybe something with neutral mids and relaxing treble such as HD600/650 but with wider soundstage and elevated bass about 5dB at 100Hz and 8dB at 40Hz and clean 250Hz-1000Hz. Tell me if you know any, I'll look into it.

 

[bobbooo]

I always replace any TV I buy that doesn't have the right color balance out of the box. I mean, why would I bother adjusting it? I'd rather keep shopping until I find one that matches my exact preferences..

Pah! I have multiple TVs that I switch between depending on the genre of movie I'm watching, as any true home cinephile should. They each have their own certain character and personality to them, some very analytical, bringing out all the nuanced microdynamics of every sub-pixel, others with just an effortless ability to paint a spookily layered yet naturalistic clarity and realism. Simply delightful. The former pair best with more forgiving Blu-ray players of course, whereas the latter really shine mated with the technicalities of a TOTL 8k-upscaling player, even on my mere entry-level 4k 120Hz HDR OLED TVs. I'm told by eggheads and their so-called science that the human eye can't possibly resolve even the 4k resolution of my 55-inch TVs when watching from the other side of my home theater 30 feet away, but I trust my eyes thank you very much. Even without my glasses on. I simply refuse to wear them when watching TV, it would completely corrupt the experience, as my brain has gotten used to everything being blurred in the outside world so of course it would be entirely unrealistic for anything to be in focus on the screen either. Does pose a bit of a problem for subtitled movies...but that's the price you have to pay for realism!

[In the unlikely but still possible case anyone doesn't realize this is friendly banter in the spirit of the "Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously" ASR banner motto, here's the obligatory tongue-sticking-out emoji: ]

 

[MZKM]

Well, had to delete my preference rating of 85 comment, I had a small error in the calculation, I fixed it but now I get a score of 50 .

To do a sanity check, I used Webplotdigitizer on Oratory1990’s HD800S data. With that, get a 76, he states a different standard deviation, using that I get the same score of 83 (meaning I at least got a similar slope, 0.125). My digitized data looks identical, so I have no clue how he is getting a decently better standard deviation (2.61 vs 3.21).

As for why @amirm ’s HD800S is scoring a ridiculous 50, the main difference is the 10kHz dip.
It’ll be too complicated to show both on the same graph, but:

Amir HD800S

Oratory1990

 

[infinitesymphony]

If we're bringing color theory into the discussion, the piece we're not measuring is the gamut. You can calibrate your display's color curves all day, but it will always be limited to the colors it is capable of reproducing. Perhaps there is an analogue in headphones and speakers.

 

[gatucho]

Hi,

As far as I am concernend, I am ready to spend some money on EQ.
BUT : how do I do it ?

My two concerns are :
- 1°) I am not always listening to music from a device that has EQ abilities. For example, I more and more often use a small dedicated music box that plays my files. And unless I have oversee the setting, there is no way to modify the sound of it, except playing with the "DAC filters"... But those are "presets", nothing I can do myself... So how do I perform EQ for a "little extra" ? I can also stream music from the computer to the networked Blu-Ray player that has no EQ settings either...
- 2°) when I listen to music streamed from my computer, I use Linux. What can I use to EQ my music with Linux ? I found "PulseEffects" but enabling that also automatically resample the bitrate... So not sure I'd like to trade EQ for resamploing :-(

Of course, if you can show a path, I'll take it...

Regards.

Effort requires change... I guess the easy answer is to consider other options than the "small dedicated music box that plays my files."
I can think of many options which allow portable PEQ use.... Really there are a LOT...
Your point is like saying "I would like to try chocolate flavor but I just like strawberry" or like buying a car for its looks but with a crappy engine and wishing it would go faster. Willingness to spend money doesn't equal willingness to buy what is needed.

The truth is that I would change to a player/steamer/Dac/ etc which would allow PEQ. At this level this is a must have feature. I mean I'm sure you wouldn't consider your current setup as viable if it wouldn't play your favorite source files. To me PEQ is THAT important because of the major gains it brings to the table.

I can't show you a path with the info you gave me, but I assure you: there are options...

 

[phoenixsong]

I've been hesitant to use EQ because of past experiences with the Onkyo Free HD Player. Its EQ clearly degraded the sound quality, especially apparent when set to flat (all bars at 0) then toggling it on and off. Anybody has any recommendations for one without this issue? I'm using Android and Windows

 

[Erispedia]

I've been hesitant to use EQ because of past experiences with the Onkyo Free HD Player. Its EQ clearly degraded the sound quality, especially apparent when set to flat (all bars at 0) then toggling it on and off. Anybody has any recommendations for one without this issue? I'm using Android and Windows

Equalizer APO for Windows seems good if you prefer manual tuning. I prefer using it with Peace GUI. If you just want reasonably makes sense presets to choose for specific headphones, SoundID by Sonarworks works well too. But the Sonarworks software will disable any spatial audio feature while APO doesn’t.

 

[bobbooo]

I've been hesitant to use EQ because of past experiences with the Onkyo Free HD Player. Its EQ clearly degraded the sound quality, especially apparent when set to flat (all bars at 0) then toggling it on and off. Anybody has any recommendations for one without this issue? I'm using Android and Windows

See this thread. I recommend Neutron Player for Android.