JBL Stage A130 Review (speaker)

[amirm]

Another factor is that the summed response comes in at around 108 dB on the graph, while the peak in the port resonance comes in with energy levels at only 90 dB.

Oh, please don't make that comparison. I manually position the overall response on the graph for visual clarity. Calibrating that graph relative to individual curves requires a lot of work which I am not putting in. Also, I manually align the individual driver/port responses as well since they are not measured at identical distances.

 

[amirm]

To be even more clear, there is no "summed" response as in me manually summing those graphs. That line is taken from one of the two distortion graph SPLs and just copied to the near-field graph. It is the true output of the speaker but measured at a different distance than the near-field measurements of the individual radiating surfaces.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

It's a bit of a shame that the woofer wasn't disconnected from the circuit when the tweeter measurement was made. The filtered tweeter has a significant "response" level below about 1.5 kHz, which is due to the woofer's output being picked up by the microphone. It just seems odd seeing a filtered "tweeter" measurement with quite extended response down to 100 Hz or so!

It wouldn't be as easy as just disconnecting the woofer. You would need to disconnect the whole section of crossover connected to the woofer as well. If not, the unloaded low-pass filter would skew the input impedance of the speaker and could cause in issue with drive to the tweeter section.
This could easily be done with a set of speakers configured for bi-wiring........but that's not what we have here.

There would obviously be much more work to configure a speaker in this way for testing, so I understand why Amir would not attempt it.
The fact remains that much of the tweeter response shown on these graphs is completely contaminated by the woofer response.

Dave.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

That graph is actually quite useful to figure out the source of the deviations even if it's not perfect. For example, sometimes you find surprising rises due to the port well into the mid-range.

Clearly I'm talking about the tweeter response being contaminated.
Obviously the port and woofer can't be operated separately.

Dave.

 

[somebodyelse]

Thank you! What do i need to drive SigmaStudio? I see 3eAudio sells the adapter - is a windows pc the only other requirement?

Probably best if you read the 3e amp thread and ask any questions there if it hasn't already covered it. The short version is that you need a PC with 64 bit Windows, the SigmaStudio project file from 3E, an adapter such as the one 3E sell, SigmaStudio and the skill to use it to make and upload a suitable filter configuration. SigmaStudio is aimed at engineers working for manufacturers, not at end users, but there's some reasonable documentation and tutorials available.

 

[psydave]

Stereophile measured the A170, the response seems pretty different with the bass hump ~100Hz, and more spikes at 10kHz+

https://www.stereophile.com/content/jbl-stage-a170-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[Biblob]

Stereophile measured the A170, the response seems pretty different with the bass hump ~100Hz, and more spikes at 10kHz+

https://www.stereophile.com/content/jbl-stage-a170-loudspeaker-measurements

Unfortunately the bass hump is caused by the measurement method JA uses. He doesn't compensate for it, and that's why every speaker he measures has an (incorrect) bass hump.

 

[mrmoizy]

I love to see these high performing speakers with basic parts. The box looks basic, that woofer and tweeter look basic, I'm sure the crossover is basic. Throwing nice parts into a box doesn't equal a great speaker - comparing this to that Purifi speaker that came through the other day is evidence. With proper implementation, that Purifi one could exceed this JBL speaker I'm sure, but implementing basic parts in efficient, effective ways seems to trump implementing high-end parts in inefficient, ineffective ways. Very impressive

 

[richard12511]

Distortion
A Revel M105
B JBL A130
C Adam TV5
Just impressive here for the JBL

View attachment 98372

Really impressive, especially considering the price of the M105.

 

[ROOSKIE]

I love to see these high performing speakers with basic parts. The box looks basic, that woofer and tweeter look basic, I'm sure the crossover is basic. Throwing nice parts into a box doesn't equal a great speaker - comparing this to that Purifi speaker that came through the other day is evidence. With proper implementation, that Purifi one could exceed this JBL speaker I'm sure, but implementing basic parts in efficient, effective ways seems to trump implementing high-end parts in inefficient, ineffective ways. Very impressive

Yes it can't be said enough that expensive drivers are not a speaker.

Interestingly the harmonic distortion in this test for the 5.25" driver is nearly world class. There are very few 5.25" woofers anywhere with lower harmonic distortion.
The tweeter also has excellent harmonic distortion levels for anything less than high end/best case.
The very expensive tweeter used by Purifi could never beat this JBL tweeter at such a crossover point.
That impressive for 6.5" Purifi woofer could never beat a quality 10 or 12" subwoofer. Such that a pair of these A130's with two or so quality mid priced subwoofers would handily beat the Purifi set-up for much less money even if you DIY the Purifi.
I realized Purifi is aiming for sub-woofer-less scenarios but still.

Anyway I ordered a set --- many systems here to subjectively compare with and I likely will take the woofer out and measure a few parameters. No Kipple here but I have REW & Mics and I have the Dayton DATS.

 

[AndrewDavis]

Two panthers??!? I’m so confused...

 

[More Dynamics Please]

That 3.2kHz crossover on the A130 is more typical of a 3-way design and should benefit tweeter performance by relieving it of lower frequency workload. I have a 2-way NHT SuperZero with a 4.5-inch woofer that's crossed way down at 2.0kHz which is more typical of an 8-inch 2-way.

 

[bigredrobotninja]

Two panthers??!? I’m so confused...

I'm seein' double! Four panthers!

 

[A Surfer]

Yes I am! I'm fairly sure I didn't embarrass myself on headfi....or did i?

Nah, over there you get a little subjectively passionate sometimes and feel strongly that sighted listening testing is adequate, but you certainly love audio reproduction and gear so all good.

 

[hapnermw]

Since many of these bookshelf speakers are requiring EQ for best results, it would be useful to run a few through Kippel testing in EQ'ed form to see objectively how EQ fully affects their output. For instance, does it actually improve in-room response or only on-axis response. I believe Floyd Toole mentions that EQ has its limitations and that it is typically less useful than it first appears. I know that others have pointed out that speakers that don't require EQ to perform well are potentially not getting the full recognition they deserve when speakers that do require EQ are rated highly. Possibly there are ways to better capture this difference.

 

[witchdoctor]

Yes it can't be said enough that expensive drivers are not a speaker.

Interestingly the harmonic distortion in this test for the 5.25" driver is nearly world class. There are very few 5.25" woofers anywhere with lower harmonic distortion.
The tweeter also has excellent harmonic distortion levels for anything less than high end/best case.
The very expensive tweeter used by Purifi could never beat this JBL tweeter at such a crossover point.
That impressive for 6.5" Purifi woofer could never beat a quality 10 or 12" subwoofer. Such that a pair of these A130's with two or so quality mid priced subwoofers would handily beat the Purifi set-up for much less money even if you DIY the Purifi.
I realized Purifi is aiming for sub-woofer-less scenarios but still.

Anyway I ordered a set --- many systems here to subjectively compare with and I likely will take the woofer out and measure a few parameters. No Kipple here but I have REW & Mics and I have the Dayton DATS.

Congrats on ordering a set. After I ordered my 230's I perched them up on Isoacoustic stands on my desktop and could listen and listen and not get tired. After a couple of months I saw a pair of $$$ book shelf speakers I had my eye on come up for sake at about a 70% discount. I just could not pull the trigger, even though they might be "better". I just enjoy those 230's so much.

 

[spacevector]

Since many of these bookshelf speakers are requiring EQ for best results, it would be useful to run a few through Kippel testing in EQ'ed form to see objectively how EQ fully affects their output. For instance, does it actually improve in-room response or only on-axis response. I believe Floyd Toole mentions that EQ has its limitations and that it is typically less useful than it first appears. I know that others have pointed out that speakers that don't require EQ to perform well are potentially not getting the full recognition they deserve when speakers that do require EQ are rated highly. Possibly there are ways to better capture this difference.

This is already being done to a large extent by user @Maiky76
See for example EQ for this speaker and corresponding EQ'd score and response in: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...l-stage-a130-review-speaker.18260/post-595326

 

[ROOSKIE]

Since many of these bookshelf speakers are requiring EQ for best results, it would be useful to run a few through Kippel testing in EQ'ed form to see objectively how EQ fully affects their output. For instance, does it actually improve in-room response or only on-axis response. I believe Floyd Toole mentions that EQ has its limitations and that it is typically less useful than it first appears. I know that others have pointed out that speakers that don't require EQ to perform well are potentially not getting the full recognition they deserve when speakers that do require EQ are rated highly. Possibly there are ways to better capture this difference.

There are few speakers that don't benefit from eq that have performed extremely well here. Nearly all the passive speakers tested could benefit from some subtle EQ. (Really only the KEF R3 doesn't benefit much from EQ besides of course for in room adjustments) Only higher end active speakers that ALREADY have eq built into their electronics are exempt from also needing EQ. (at least in terms of getting the most out of the speakers)
Remember many passive speakers also use a variation of EQ in the form of shaping filters included in the crossover circuits.

Beyond that you simply need EQ to at least tame the room modes that basically every set-up has.

You can estimate the effects very accurately using the data here. Look especially at the directivity. Additionally if you have the speakers and apply the filters you will see the actual in room changes. If there are no changes measured in room then the you will see that.
I believe Tool was saying EQ is more for tweaking rather than fixing a completely blown design. All the EQ applied here generally falls in tweaking category IMHO.

 

[A Surfer]

I agree that most speakers need some degree of equalization for either their design trade-offs, room effects or both. Regardless the equalization that Amir was using here is very, very minor. I suspect if it wasn't done the speakers would still sound 98% the way they do equalized so really, nothing to worry about.

 

[Maiky76]

Awesome work! Is it possible to use the DSP of the 3eAudio TPA3255 finisheded amplifiers to program these EQ settings? They have a Sigma Audio DSP

Hi,
The ADAU1701 should be fine with the PEQ/PK and HPQ (High-Pass filter with arbitrary Q).
From memory the only difference would be for shelves which usually I don't use because of these differences between DSP vendors.
A TI DSP might not work though.

I would be interested to see some measurements of these amps, they look like a nice halfway house between active and passive speakers.
It could do EQ Room and speaker (FIR might be too ambitious) for a stereo set up or used as active filter + amp if one were to use one per channel for a 2 way set up provided that the internal ADAU routing capabilities are not neutered by the software.