Adam T8V Studio Monitor Review

[andreasmaaan]

Is such hiss usual in active loudspeakers ?
Ther is nothing that bugs me more

Very common in budget-priced ones, unfortunately :/

 

[Pearljam5000]

He says the T7V are much more accurate and flat.

 

[Pharos]

This thread has several interesting aspects for me, having purchased a pair of ADAMs three years ago, and still being baffled and confused with what I am hearing.

Ports are also interesting, the original aspiration of rear facing being I believe to reduce the likelihood of internal cabinet energy from the rear of the cone exiting from the port directly to the listener. The wall distance surely has to be such as to not impede the airflow, and preferably to continue the acoustic impedance presented by the port.

I had a pair of ATC 100As which I rebuilt in '97, 'SL'ing them, and this involved an increase in port length involving a right angled bend up behind the new SL woofer, which I lined with felt. There is no doubt that before conversion chuffing and general internal cabinet noise was audible, and it was substantially improved after the work.

I think the compromise with a port is between making it small to reduce the exiting noise, but not so small as to increase the velocity induced chuffing noise.

In '02 I rebuilt a pair of ESS AMT1Bs to a later spec, and they use the original Heils. On another forum a member has just measured them and they are within +/- 2dB from 800Hz to 23kHz, and with a staggeringly good waterfall decay. (Much to my surprise having listened to much denigration from many in the industry).

My ADAMs seem to be muddy and congested in the 100 Hz to 800 Hz range, but the top very smooth and extended, this perhaps showing just how poor in this range many recordings can be. My concern with what has bee stated here is that the BBC uses highly regarded Genelecs, but their speech quality, particularly on R4 is often very poor, at least so on my ADAMS, and also but to a lesser degree on my ESSs.

There is a sense with the quality of build with my ADAMs that they are very solid and stoic in build, never seeming to become over-worked or incapable of dealing with what is thrown at them, rather like an Otis lift, just quietly and smoothly getting on with the job.

 

[CumSum]

As some one who owns Emotiva Stealth 8's, Emotiva Arimotiv 5S, JBL LSR 305/306P's, I am baffled why the T8V and 305P/308P received higher panther ratings than the Airmotiv 6S.

Subjectively my Airmotiv 5S outclasses the JBL's in every scenario, especially the original 305's. Whether they are ran without EQ or with DIRAC, the Airmotiv sounds better and it isn't that close. They go A LOT louder while always sounding clean. Used them in a giant HT playing movies. JBL's sound like they run out of breath on my desk. And the Airmotiv 6S measurements are not in a different league as these two.

I have high hopes for the Adam T series and would like to buy a set of T5V's to compare directly to my now 6 year old pair of Airmotiv 5S's. Looking at this review, I am not really sold that they'll sound better. The distortion charts looks concerning, especially since the AMT is where the magic is supposed to take place. Sadly there are no distortion measurements of the Airmotiv 6S so no direct comparison can be made, but from my experience, the AMT's in my Emotiva speakers are exceptionally clean, detailed and less fatiguing than the JBL's.

My dream speaker is still the Adam S3V and I really hope we will see that review one day.

 

[andreasmaaan]

As some one who owns Emotiva Stealth 8's, Emotiva Arimotiv 5S, JBL LSR 305/306P's, I am baffled why the T8V and 305P/308P received higher panther ratings than the Airmotiv 6S.

I would guess the main reason was the big frequency response issue the 6S had in the lower-midrange:

Note that the 305P and the 6S actually got the same "panther rating".

This 308P, which measures significantly better than either, got a higher rating.

All seems pretty consistent to me...

 

[MarsianC#]

My dream speaker is still the Adam S3V and I really hope we will see that review one day.

S&R measured them.

PS: My collection, in german Hifi-Forum. Almost all measurments done by S&R/Dr. Goertz. I managed to fail building a online database twice.... so I gave up. Lazy me. Maybe a google sheet in near future is a good goal.

 

[Deleted member 65]

The ADAM ARTist 5 I measured are the cream of the crop as far as all the speakers I've measured--out to 90 degrees in 11.25 degree intervals.
View attachment 90561
Mackie and Behringer also performed well:
http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/2011/01/review-of-polar-graphs.html

My rig cannot get the resolution that the Klippel can, but it does supply some degree of confidence.

I have been listening to these everyday for hours without an issue, hiss, or audible vibration for nearly a decade.

Just bought a pair (last new available!). Need to unpack the second one and connect them ...

 

[richard12511]

As some one who owns Emotiva Stealth 8's, Emotiva Arimotiv 5S, JBL LSR 305/306P's, I am baffled why the T8V and 305P/308P received higher panther ratings than the Airmotiv 6S.

Subjectively my Airmotiv 5S outclasses the JBL's in every scenario, especially the original 305's. Whether they are ran without EQ or with DIRAC, the Airmotiv sounds better and it isn't that close. They go A LOT louder while always sounding clean. Used them in a giant HT playing movies. JBL's sound like they run out of breath on my desk. And the Airmotiv 6S measurements are not in a different league as these two.

I have high hopes for the Adam T series and would like to buy a set of T5V's to compare directly to my now 6 year old pair of Airmotiv 5S's. Looking at this review, I am not really sold that they'll sound better. The distortion charts looks concerning, especially since the AMT is where the magic is supposed to take place. Sadly there are no distortion measurements of the Airmotiv 6S so no direct comparison can be made, but from my experience, the AMT's in my Emotiva speakers are exceptionally clean, detailed and less fatiguing than the JBL's.

My dream speaker is still the Adam S3V and I really hope we will see that review one day.

308p measures significantly better than the Airmotiv, and thus deserves a higher rating. I think the 305p actually got a lower panther score. Your preference for the Airmotiv might just be your subjective preference. Not everyone is the same, but I would think the science says that most people should prefer the 308p, and in this case Amir's subjective impression seemed to align with the science. I've heard the Airmotiv, but it's been awhile, so I don't really have an opinion there. I will say that I do prefer the 308p slightly over the Emotiva T2+.

 

[richard12511]

S&R measured them.

PS: My collection, in german Hifi-Forum. Almost all measurments done by S&R/Dr. Goertz. I managed to fail building a online database twice.... so I gave up. Lazy me. Maybe a google sheet in near future is a good goal.

Looks really good.

 

[NTomokawa]

I briefly auditioned the T8V speakers at my local store before buying the Yamaha HS8. During that brief time the T8V appeared to have more tweeter hiss than the HS8 did.

 

[BYRTT]

As some one who owns Emotiva Stealth 8's, Emotiva Arimotiv 5S, JBL LSR 305/306P's, I am baffled why the T8V and 305P/308P received higher panther ratings than the Airmotiv 6S.

Subjectively my Airmotiv 5S outclasses the JBL's in every scenario, especially the original 305's. Whether they are ran without EQ or with DIRAC, the Airmotiv sounds better and it isn't that close. They go A LOT louder while always sounding clean. Used them in a giant HT playing movies. JBL's sound like they run out of breath on my desk. And the Airmotiv 6S measurements are not in a different league as these two.

I have high hopes for the Adam T series and would like to buy a set of T5V's to compare directly to my now 6 year old pair of Airmotiv 5S's. Looking at this review, I am not really sold that they'll sound better. The distortion charts looks concerning, especially since the AMT is where the magic is supposed to take place. Sadly there are no distortion measurements of the Airmotiv 6S so no direct comparison can be made, but from my experience, the AMT's in my Emotiva speakers are exceptionally clean, detailed and less fatiguing than the JBL's.

My dream speaker is still the Adam S3V and I really hope we will see that review one day.

Post 165 by @andreasmaaan (1000 thanks) is probably the reason if one lean to be objective minded, yourself sound be subjective minded based the talk of where the magic is should be a AMT transducer but please forgive me if that point is wrong, think a general mistake in your critic note is you base a certain brand should sound better than another brand based the brand models owned yourself, but heck your models is not the same as the tested exemplars by Amir so how can that make you conclude Amir is off here.

 

[CumSum]

S&R measured them.

PS: My collection, in german Hifi-Forum. Almost all measurments done by S&R/Dr. Goertz. I managed to fail building a online database twice.... so I gave up. Lazy me. Maybe a google sheet in near future is a good goal.

That is a great collection of speaker measurements, thanks for linking it! And I have seen those Adam S3V measurements before and they do look great. Would love for Amir to measure them himself so we can directly compare speakers he has measured and hear his subjective take on them.

Post 165 by @andreasmaaan (1000 thanks) is probably the reason if one lean to be objective minded, yourself sound be subjective minded based the talk of where the magic is should be a AMT transducer but please forgive me if that point is wrong, think a general mistake in your critic note is you base a certain brand should sound better than another brand based the brand models owned yourself, but heck your models is not the same as the tested exemplars by Amir so how can that make you conclude Amir is off here.

I believe speaker manufacturers should strive to make the best measuring speakers they can. That being said, subjectively, speakers will sound different and one cannot completely judge a speaker's performance solely by its measurements.

Subjectively Amir and his wife found the Airmotiv 6S to sound better than the JBL 305, so I am not alone in thinking the Emotiva monitors sound better than the JBL's. And I have nothing for or against either brand, I have bought two sets of speakers from each. I really do respect JBL since they are a part of Harman and I admire what they have done for the industry.

308p measures significantly better than the Airmotiv, and thus deserves a higher rating. I think the 305p actually got a lower panther score. Your preference for the Airmotiv might just be your subjective preference. Not everyone is the same, but I would think the science says that most people should prefer the 308p, and in this case Amir's subjective impression seemed to align with the science. I've heard the Airmotiv, but it's been awhile, so I don't really have an opinion there. I will say that I do prefer the 308p slightly over the Emotiva T2+.

You aren't wrong. I had my Mom do a blind test of the Airmotiv 5S and the LSR306P and she preferred the 306P whereas I preferred the Emotiva. Why she preferred it probably won't correlate to the JBL's objectively measuring better. The JBL's had quite a bit more bass (they are almost twice as big) and the treble was more elevated. More bass and more treble is a winning recipe according to the masses.

At the end of the day what matters most to me personally is how a speaker sounds when used with room correction and with subwoofers, so some measured aspects of a speaker performance is of less relevance to me, such as bass extension and tonality. Where I would place greater emphasis on is distortion and horizontal dispersion which are aspects of a speaker that cannot be fixed with EQ or a subwoofer.

To me the Emotiva's sounded better with and without DIRAC, with the larger JBL's having more bottom end as they should. But of course that is my own opinion and my own experience so take it as you will. That being said I predict that the Adam T series will sound much better than the JBL's from my own previous experiences and I might grab a set to compare all three with.

 

[richard12511]

More bass and more treble is a winning recipe according to the masses.

Is this true, and if so, is there data to back this up? I only know of the NRC and Harman studies, but those showed that the masses overwhelmingly prefer the most neutral speakers, not tilted bass and treble speakers.

Also, you mentioned Amir preferring the Airmotiv over the 305p, and then lump the 30X together as "JBLs", which I think is a mistake. 308p and 305p are different speakers, and the 308p measures noticeably better. Looking at the 305p measurements, it doesn't surprise me that he preferred the Emotiva. I would be surprised, however, if he preferred the Emotiva over the 308p(just based on the measurements).

 

[SineWave]

That is a great collection of speaker measurements, thanks for linking it! And I have seen those Adam S3V measurements before and they do look great. Would love for Amir to measure them himself so we can directly compare speakers he has measured and hear his subjective take on them.



I believe speaker manufacturers should strive to make the best measuring speakers they can. That being said, subjectively, speakers will sound different and one cannot completely judge a speaker's performance solely by its measurements.

Subjectively Amir and his wife found the Airmotiv 6S to sound better than the JBL 305, so I am not alone in thinking the Emotiva monitors sound better than the JBL's. And I have nothing for or against either brand, I have bought two sets of speakers from each. I really do respect JBL since they are a part of Harman and I admire what they have done for the industry.



You aren't wrong. I had my Mom do a blind test of the Airmotiv 5S and the LSR306P and she preferred the 306P whereas I preferred the Emotiva. Why she preferred it probably won't correlate to the JBL's objectively measuring better. The JBL's had quite a bit more bass (they are almost twice as big) and the treble was more elevated. More bass and more treble is a winning recipe according to the masses.

At the end of the day what matters most to me personally is how a speaker sounds when used with room correction and with subwoofers, so some measured aspects of a speaker performance is of less relevance to me, such as bass extension and tonality. Where I would place greater emphasis on is distortion and horizontal dispersion which are aspects of a speaker that cannot be fixed with EQ or a subwoofer.

To me the Emotiva's sounded better with and without DIRAC, with the larger JBL's having more bottom end as they should. But of course that is my own opinion and my own experience so take it as you will. That being said I predict that the Adam T series will sound much better than the JBL's from my own previous experiences and I might grab a set to compare all three with.

Do you have any experience with these speakers? Emotiva Airmotive E2+ Surround
E2+ Surround

I have similar "looking" tweeters in my bookshelf Martin Logan speakers (LX16), in my 2.1 ch TV system and was thinking to get them for surrounds.

I wrote in another thread (or maybe a while back in this one? I'm getting old) that I had the JBL 305P (v1) and T5V at the same time for a month to compare. I don't have any means to make measurements, but they sounded pretty much the same (to me). I didn't test to see which ones played louder before hearing distortion as I can't tolerate loud music for more than a few seconds nowadays. I kept the Adams and returned the JBLs. I'd be happy with either set as this is used at my desktop computer mainly for video editing of personal (not professional) concert videos. I'd be curious as to what others think when they see/measure/hear the two.

 

[CumSum]

Is this true, and if so, is there data to back this up? I only know of the NRC and Harman studies, but those showed that the masses overwhelmingly prefer the most neutral speakers, not tilted bass and treble speakers.

Also, you mentioned Amir preferring the Airmotiv over the 305p, and then lump the 30X together as "JBLs", which I think is a mistake. 308p and 305p are different speakers, and the 308p measures noticeably better. Looking at the 305p measurements, it doesn't surprise me that he preferred the Emotiva. I would be surprised, however, if he preferred the Emotiva over the 308p(just based on the measurements).

You are right about Harman's research. I would just say that from a quick comparison of two studio monitors, your typical average joe, like my Mom, will probably side with the speaker that has more bass and more treble, if both speakers are in the same ball park of performance. It will sound more engaging in the moment, especially when using more forgiving source material. Given my Mom is no fan of metal, I played pop and electronic (which is forgiving) and that is where the extra bass and treble led her to preferring the JBL's. And by her own admission the margin between the two was close so something had to tip the scales in a 15 minute comparison.

Amir preferred a 6S to a 305P. I preferred a 5S to a 306P. Not apples to apples but the characters of each line of speakers are essentially the same. My Stealth 8's are completely different (yet similar) in design, build, size and cost to my Airmotiv 5S, yet the character's of each speaker matches up very closely and they share the same strengths and weaknesses. They most certainly will measure different but it won't stop them from sounding like they are closely related. If you don't like one then you probably will not fall in love with the other.

The 306P sounds slightly better than the original LSR305, but the character of the sound is unmistakably the same. Bass response will be the biggest change from a 305P to a 306P to a 308P but the fundamental character of the speaker won't, or at least shouldn't be changed granted the designers kept the line consistent, as JBL has.

Now the upper treble does seem superior in the JBL LSR308P which maybe to due its larger waveguide, but I am skeptical of just how low the crossover point is. JBL rates the 308P with an 1800Hz crossover yet the 306P has a crossover at 1425Hz which makes no sense. And in Amir's measurements we see a gap in the crossover. We also see tons of distortion around the crossover point which tells me the woofer and tweeter are playing well outside of their comfort zones. Given these are two-way speakers, the 305P is probably going to be superior (on paper at least) as its mid-range woofer can actually play at it's rated crossover frequency. Maybe Harman found a band aid to make the 308P measure well at the crossover point but it doesn't mean it will sound good at those frequencies. If both speakers were to be high passed, I would predict the 305P and 308P would sound extremely similar with the 305P probably having a better midrange and the 308P having smoother treble.

And given Amir run's his tests in mono, there will be a deficiency in testing a speakers soundstage and imaging. For me the Airmotiv's took the cake in that department as the JBL's sounded very boxy in comparison. They never sounded boxy to me until I compared them directly to the Airmotivs. That is something I'll never be able to unhear

 

[CumSum]

Do you have any experience with these speakers? Emotiva Airmotive E2+ Surround
E2+ Surround

I have similar "looking" tweeters in my bookshelf Martin Logan speakers (LX16), in my 2.1 ch TV system and was thinking to get them for surrounds.

I wrote in another thread (or maybe a while back in this one? I'm getting old) that I had the JBL 305P (v1) and T5V at the same time for a month to compare. I don't have any means to make measurements, but they sounded pretty much the same (to me). I didn't test to see which ones played louder before hearing distortion as I can't tolerate loud music for more than a few seconds nowadays. I kept the Adams and returned the JBLs. I'd be happy with either set as this is used at my desktop computer mainly for video editing of personal (not professional) concert videos. I'd be curious as to what others think when they see/measure/hear the two.

I have no experience with Emotiva's passive line of speakers. I prefer studio monitors to passive speakers, but it seems as though Emotiva's powered Airmotiv's were universally preferred over their passive speaker variants so even those speakers cannot be directly compared. The E2+ is a completely different speaker and has no powered variant so I cannot give you a recommendation for or against it. If you do like the sound from AMT (the funny looking tweeter) speakers then I would say stick with AMT speakers.


I am surprised you heard no difference between the JBL's and Adams. Disregarding bass and midrange performance which may very well be similar, you should hear a good difference in the treble as well as soundstage and imaging as the tweeters and waveguides are fundamentally different.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Bass response will be the biggest change from a 305P to a 306P to a 308P but the fundamental character of the speaker won't, or at least shouldn't be changed granted the designers kept the line consistent, as JBL has.

I think this is a false assumption with respect to the JBLs. The 305P is not a flat-measuring speaker, with a recessed lower-midrange and exaggerated upper-midrange and treble. The 308P is a very flat-measuring speaker. Unless equalised, they are not going to be similar-sounding speakers IMO.

 

[richard12511]

@CumSum I definitely agree with some of what you're saying. I too have wondered about the v-curve response. It seems logical(to me at least) that it would be preferred in rapid fire listening tests. When I was really into beer blind taste testing a few years ago, it took us a 100 or so tests to realize we were biases the results towards "bolder" flavors that did well in back to back sip comparisons, but were too strong over an entire pour. I feel like audio could be similar, and Amir has even brought it up before in a few of his reviews, but it always leads me back to the Harman studies, which basically refute the idea(unless I'm misreading).

The 306P sounds slightly better than the original LSR305, but the character of the sound is unmistakably the same. Bass response will be the biggest change from a 305P to a 306P to a 308P but the fundamental character of the speaker won't, or at least shouldn't be changed granted the designers kept the line consistent, as JBL has.

This is the only part of your post I for sure disagree with. To me it looks like JBL messed up with the 305p somehow. I'm really curious what went wrong in that speakers designs, but it's definitely quite a bit worse than the 308p. Crossover?. Looking at the measurements of both speakers, I honestly doubt they sound that similar at all. I would expect the 305 to sound very bright, and lacking mids, whereas the 308 is almost perfectly neutral. I'm very interested to see the 306p measurements. Will it show the same problems as the 305? or will it be more well behaved, like the 308?

 

[CumSum]

I think this is a false assumption with respect to the JBLs. The 305P is not a flat-measuring speaker, with a recessed lower-midrange and exaggerated upper-midrange and treble. The 308P is a very flat-measuring speaker. Unless equalised, they are not going to be similar-sounding speakers IMO.

I am looking past frequency response as that is easily changeable. And while tonality of course makes speakers sound different, the drivers, the electronics and the fundamental design of the JBL 30X lineup are virtually identical, which gives the speaker and it's line up it's true sonic character. One speaker can be better than the other but they are still cut from the same cloth. And tonality is not the only measure of performance, both objectively and subjectively. If you EQ'd a 305P and 308P flat, they most certainly would sound extremely similar, maybe even the same, but not because they measure identically in the frequency domain after EQ.

The JBL HDI-1600 follows a similar design philosophy but you can bet it will probably sound much better than a 308P, even if its frequency response is worse out of the box. And when they are both EQ'd flat, they will probably sound different.

Compare a 308P to a T8V or an Airmotiv 6S, all EQ'd flat, and they will sound different because they are completely different speakers. You can't EQ out distortion, dispersion, max SPL, etc. which is where I am putting my emphasis on why the JBL lineup is going to sound like they are closely related. Which is why I don't have to listen to the 308P, to know that I will personally prefer the Airmotiv 5S, given my past experience with the 306P and LSR305.

If you strongly preferred the sound of a JBL 308P to the sound of an Airmotiv 5S, I will not make the argument that you may enjoy the Airmotiv 6S more than the 308P. You might like the 6S over the 5S, but they are too similar for you to turn a complete 180, and ditch the 308P for the 6S.

 

[richard12511]

I am looking past frequency response as that is easily changeable. And while tonality of course makes speakers sound different, the drivers, the electronics and the fundamental design of the JBL 30X lineup are virtually identical, which gives the speaker and it's line up it's true sonic character. One speaker can be better than the other but they are still cut from the same cloth. And tonality is not the only measure of performance, both objectively and subjectively. If you EQ'd a 305P and 308P flat, they most certainly would sound extremely similar, maybe even the same, but not because they measure identically in the frequency domain after EQ.

The JBL HDI-1600 follows a similar design philosophy but you can bet it will probably sound much better than a 308P, even if its frequency response is worse out of the box. And when they are both EQ'd flat, they will probably sound different.

Compare a 308P to a T8V or an Airmotiv 6S, all EQ'd flat, and they will sound different because they are completely different speakers. You can't EQ out distortion, dispersion, max SPL, etc. which is where I am putting my emphasis on why the JBL lineup is going to sound like they are closely related. Which is why I don't have to listen to the 308P, to know that I will personally prefer the Airmotiv 5S, given my past experience with the 306P and LSR305.

If you strongly preferred the sound of a JBL 308P to the sound of an Airmotiv 5S, I will not make the argument that you may enjoy the Airmotiv 6S more than the 308P. You might like the 6S over the 5S, but they are too similar for you to turn a complete 180, and ditch the 308P for the 6S.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with much of this. I believe that if speakers sound different, that will show in the measurements. I don't think there's anything special or any sort of "sonic character" about JBL(or any manufacturers) speakers - that doesn't show up in the measurements - that would make them sound the same. For example, if the Airmotiv measured more similarly to the 308p than the 305p measured to the 308p, then the Airmotiv would sound more similar to the 308p than the 305p would. The 305p wouldn't sound closer to the 308p just because it's made by JBL, as if it did, that would show in the measurements.