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Adam T8V Studio Monitor Review

CumSum

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@CumSum I feel like audio could be similar, and Amir has even brought it up before in a few of his reviews, but it always leads me back to the Harman studies, which basically refute the idea(unless I'm misreading).

I don't know the intricate details of the Harman study, but for a quality speaker system with true full range sound, that means bass extension all the way down to 20Hz, then I believe a perceptibly neutral sound, resembling Harman's target curve, is what we all prefer, a bump in bass and roll off to the treble. I DIRAC my speakers systems to a Harman like curve and I have had no complaints from people about the tonality of my systems and I always ask them about it. For my systems I typically bump the bass to about +6db at 20Hz and roll the treble off to -6dB at 20KHz.

That being said, if you did not have a full range speaker, and none really exist (subwoofers and proper subwoofer integration are the only way to actually get it) then a speaker with a bit more emphasized bass will probably sound better given it will add some warmth to the sound and help make up for the deficient bass extension. Conversely, the added bass will dull the treble, so you probably have to jack that up a tad as well to balance out. Now you have a V shaped speaker that may very well sound better than a flat speaker, but again they aren't full range. Also normal people don't bother with proper placement, especially in the vertical plane. So they are probably listening to the speaker off-axis, so a ton of the treble has already been rolled off. The Harman study is I would assume strongly controlled, so all the variables go down the toilet in the real world for people who have no clue. And honestly for most audiophiles as they also have no clue.

@CumSum This is the only part of your post I for sure disagree with. To me it looks like JBL messed up with the 305p somehow. I'm really curious what went wrong in that speakers designs, but it's definitely quite a bit worse than the 308p. Crossover?. Looking at the measurements of both speakers, I honestly doubt they sound that similar at all. I would expect the 305 to sound very bright, and lacking mids, whereas the 308 is almost perfectly neutral. I'm very interested to see the 306p measurements. Will it show the same problems as the 305? or will it be more well behaved, like the 308?

Do you or anyone have the link to the 305P's updated measurements from Amir? The 305P was his first speaker review and I vaguely remember him remeasuring them at some point, though I maybe wrong.

The 306P from other someone else's measurements shows an almost identical frequency response to the 305P. Only difference is a slight dip on the crossover point, so technically the 306P measure worse. But frequency response is only one metric of a speaker's performance which I why I standby by what I said previously. If the 305P and 308P showed different distortion levels, resonance issues, etc., than I may change my view point as those speakers start to be come vastly different in many aspects of objective performance. But if the only difference is FR, and that difference is relatively close, lets say within 3dB, then the sound will be too similar.

Also, I DIRAC all my systems to a similar, if not identical target curve. So frequency response measurements means very little to me as my speakers are EQ'd identically. Of course I won't buy a speaker with a garbage FR, but given I exclusively buy studio monitors, and most measure very well, it isn't an issue for me. I actually don't like the out of the box sound of most speakers. That being said I don't disregard a speaker because I don't like its sound out of the box. What matters to me is how it sounds when DIRAC works its magic on it. That is definitely where the JBL's sound like the JBL's and the Emotiva's sound like Emotiva's. Performance gap gets closer after DIRAC, as tonally the speakers fit my preferred sound signature, but that gap still exists as tonality is not the only performance metric. The 308P's won't bridge that gap.
 

CumSum

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Unfortunately, I have to disagree with much of this. I believe that if speakers sound different, that will show in the measurements. I don't think there's anything special or any sort of "sonic character" about JBL(or any manufacturers) speakers - that doesn't show up in the measurements - that would make them sound the same. For example, if the Airmotiv measured more similarly to the 308p than the 305p measured to the 308p, then the Airmotiv would sound more similar to the 308p than the 305p would. The 305p wouldn't sound closer to the 308p just because it's made by JBL, as if it did, that would show in the measurements.

If many different measurement metrics were identical across two speakers then I would agree with you, they will sound similar, regardless of brand. But frequency response is not the only measurement to go by and that is the metric everyone here is debating me on. If that were the case then every DAC and amplifier would sound identical, as most of them have identically flat frequency responses. Now DAC's are at the point of sounding identical, but there is still plenty of variation in amplifier performance even when FR's are the same.
 

richard12511

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If many different measurement metrics were identical across two speakers then I would agree with you, they will sound similar, regardless of brand. But frequency response is not the only measurement to go by and that is the metric everyone here is debating me on. If that were the case then every DAC and amplifier would sound identical, as most of them have identically flat frequency responses. Now DAC's are at the point of sounding identical, but there is still plenty of variation in amplifier performance even when FR's are the same.

Oh, yeah I’m not just talking FR. I’m talking all the measurements that Amir posts, and perhaps even more. It’s my belief that if two speakers sound different, that will show in one or more of the measurements.

FR on its own is relatively useless, imo.
 

andreasmaaan

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If many different measurement metrics were identical across two speakers then I would agree with you, they will sound similar, regardless of brand. But frequency response is not the only measurement to go by and that is the metric everyone here is debating me on.

Frequency response (both on- and off-axis) is the metric that most closely correlates with subjective sound. I’m not arguing that other things don’t matter. I’m arguing that if two speakers have very different frequency responses - as the 305P and 308P do - they will sound different.
If that were the case then every DAC and amplifier would sound identical, as most of them have identically flat frequency responses.

Most DACs and amps do sound identical. However, as I said above, frequency response is not the only metric that matters, it just matters a lot (which is not to say that other metrics don’t matter). So yes, two DACs or amps with identical FR could sound different.

But the key point here is that, if two devices have very different FRs, they will likely sound very different, regardless whether they are similar in other ways. The 305P and 308P have very different FRs.
 

Rmn

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Hello good people,

Maybe this is a silly question, but here it goes.
Being this a class d amplified monitor, does the AD conversion impacts negatively the playback of a, for example, .dff file in comparison to a class AB amplified monitor.

Thanks
 

CumSum

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Hello good people,

Maybe this is a silly question, but here it goes.
Being this a class d amplified monitor, does the AD conversion impacts negatively the playback of a, for example, .dff file in comparison to a class AB amplified monitor.

Thanks
It won't matter what digital file is played, that is your DAC's job to handle. An analog signal goes into the monitor and from then on the monitor does as it pleases, for better or for worse. Being Class D or Class AB doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the monitor has onboard DSP (which includes whether or not it has an onboard A/D and D/A converters).
 

Lorenzo74

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BTW I also have the T5V which a member has sent in.

I'm not pushing you @amirm but this Xmas I'd like to upgrade my home smartworking desk with a better speakers, considering it became my listening life position... (I could relocate my floor-standers or my Home theater system.. , but I want to support economy in this pandemic time).

I really loved your reviews of Adam T8, KALI LP6, JBL 308MKII, KH80,...
my question to you and to ASR experts is:

Better Adam T5-7, Kali LP6 (nice woofer/tweeter integration) but with a Subwoofer
or
ADAM T8, JBL 308, KALI LP8,.... without subwoofer accepting not excellent midrange...

in other words: 3 ways or 2 ways? this is the question for next week

thanks in advance
 

CumSum

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Better Adam T5-7, Kali LP6 (nice woofer/tweeter integration) but with a Subwoofer
or
ADAM T8, JBL 308, KALI LP8,.... without subwoofer accepting not excellent midrange...

in other words: 3 ways or 2 ways? this is the question for next week
It is always best to have a subwoofer regardless of speaker size so getting a smaller 2-way and a subwoofer is preferred. The smaller speaker version should theoretically handle the crossover better, since a 5" woofer can play higher in frequency than an 8" and typically the tweeters are all identical across the line. But that is still all up to the speaker designers to get right.

I can recommend the Adam T5V's. The T5V's measured slightly better than the T7's and they cost less and take up less space. And subjectively people seem to prefer the 5's over the 7's.

My listening setup is at a desk and I use two Rythmik F12's and a DDRC-24 to integrate the speakers/sub plus use DIRAC. So in my use case, I can really see what a speaker's true potential is by neglecting its bass performance as well as tonally voicing the sound to my own preference.

I've only had the Adam T5V's for a few days, but they were immediately better than my JBL 306P's (both stock and with DIRAC). They sound similar to my Emotiva Airmotiv 5S, which I also preferred over the JBL's. The JBL's throw an incredible image and soundstage in nearfield, but so do the AMT speakers, just in different ways, so they don't really have an advantage in that department. The JBL's actually sound boxy in comparison when used in mid-field.

The big problem with the JBL's ultimately is they sound cheap in comparison. They are definitely built much cheaper. The JBL's just lack the detail and have added harshness over the Adam's. They sound like they have more distortion. No DIRAC target curve can fix that, and I've tried many. Whereas the Adams sound extremely transparent. The mid-range is exceptionally clean, I expected it from the tweeter, but the mid-range is also at an elite level. I listen to metal mostly and the mids and highs are expressed wonderfully.

I can't speak to the Adam's vs. Emotiva's since one of my Emotiva's has died after 6 years (hopefully I can fix it myself and then do a comparison).

When getting a subwoofer, please get a real subwoofer. The cheapest sub I would recommend is the Rythmik L12, which I also own and love. Also an SVS SB-1000 if that is cheaper. I would steer clear from any of those studio subs from the studio monitor brands. They are over priced crap. Get a 12" or bigger sealed sub from an actual subwoofer company.
 

Lorenzo74

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It is always best to have a subwoofer regardless of speaker size so getting a smaller 2-way and a subwoofer is preferred. The smaller speaker version should theoretically handle the crossover better, since a 5" woofer can play higher in frequency than an 8" and typically the tweeters are all identical across the line. But that is still all up to the speaker designers to get right.

I can recommend the Adam T5V's. The T5V's measured slightly better than the T7's and they cost less and take up less space. And subjectively people seem to prefer the 5's over the 7's.

My listening setup is at a desk and I use two Rythmik F12's and a DDRC-24 to integrate the speakers/sub plus use DIRAC. So in my use case, I can really see what a speaker's true potential is by neglecting its bass performance as well as tonally voicing the sound to my own preference.

I've only had the Adam T5V's for a few days, but they were immediately better than my JBL 306P's (both stock and with DIRAC). They sound similar to my Emotiva Airmotiv 5S, which I also preferred over the JBL's. The JBL's throw an incredible image and soundstage in nearfield, but so do the AMT speakers, just in different ways, so they don't really have an advantage in that department. The JBL's actually sound boxy in comparison when used in mid-field.

The big problem with the JBL's ultimately is they sound cheap in comparison. They are definitely built much cheaper. The JBL's just lack the detail and have added harshness over the Adam's. They sound like they have more distortion. No DIRAC target curve can fix that, and I've tried many. Whereas the Adams sound extremely transparent. The mid-range is exceptionally clean, I expected it from the tweeter, but the mid-range is also at an elite level. I listen to metal mostly and the mids and highs are expressed wonderfully.

I can't speak to the Adam's vs. Emotiva's since one of my Emotiva's has died after 6 years (hopefully I can fix it myself and then do a comparison).

When getting a subwoofer, please get a real subwoofer. The cheapest sub I would recommend is the Rythmik L12, which I also own and love. Also an SVS SB-1000 if that is cheaper. I would steer clear from any of those studio subs from the studio monitor brands. They are over priced crap. Get a 12" or bigger sealed sub from an actual subwoofer company.

thank you for your thorough description of your experience.AMT is great even if that of ADAM not superflat as Viawave...

since I have ddrc24, a 12 inch sub bass reflex (I prefer sealed configuratio. ) , two 2.5 floor-standers (I sealed them as well) and experimented many, many, many XO... may I ask your settings? below mine.

I come up to two configs.:
1) High spl 90Hz 48db LR8 phase matched at XO with Rev and time delay in minidsp.
2) For lower volume XO 50Hz 48db LR8 to keep consistency of fundamental and first overtones (of bass guitars) as reproduced by same source. Dirac of course on top of them (Love it). Then only Early reflections (ceiling and lateral) tamed by 10cm high density pyramid foam—> impulse response direct sound 20db above reflections for at least 20ms... Freq response straight (psychoacoustic filter) +-2db 27Hz—>18kHz. Slope 10db 20-20kHz 9 measuring point average...
so?
thanks in advance
best
 

infinitesymphony

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It is always best to have a subwoofer regardless of speaker size so getting a smaller 2-way and a subwoofer is preferred. The smaller speaker version should theoretically handle the crossover better, since a 5" woofer can play higher in frequency than an 8" and typically the tweeters are all identical across the line. But that is still all up to the speaker designers to get right.

I can recommend the Adam T5V's. The T5V's measured slightly better than the T7's and they cost less and take up less space. And subjectively people seem to prefer the 5's over the 7's.

My listening setup is at a desk and I use two Rythmik F12's and a DDRC-24 to integrate the speakers/sub plus use DIRAC. So in my use case, I can really see what a speaker's true potential is by neglecting its bass performance as well as tonally voicing the sound to my own preference.

I've only had the Adam T5V's for a few days, but they were immediately better than my JBL 306P's (both stock and with DIRAC). They sound similar to my Emotiva Airmotiv 5S, which I also preferred over the JBL's. The JBL's throw an incredible image and soundstage in nearfield, but so do the AMT speakers, just in different ways, so they don't really have an advantage in that department. The JBL's actually sound boxy in comparison when used in mid-field.

The big problem with the JBL's ultimately is they sound cheap in comparison. They are definitely built much cheaper. The JBL's just lack the detail and have added harshness over the Adam's. They sound like they have more distortion. No DIRAC target curve can fix that, and I've tried many. Whereas the Adams sound extremely transparent. The mid-range is exceptionally clean, I expected it from the tweeter, but the mid-range is also at an elite level. I listen to metal mostly and the mids and highs are expressed wonderfully.

I can't speak to the Adam's vs. Emotiva's since one of my Emotiva's has died after 6 years (hopefully I can fix it myself and then do a comparison).

When getting a subwoofer, please get a real subwoofer. The cheapest sub I would recommend is the Rythmik L12, which I also own and love. Also an SVS SB-1000 if that is cheaper. I would steer clear from any of those studio subs from the studio monitor brands. They are over priced crap. Get a 12" or bigger sealed sub from an actual subwoofer company.
The Adam T8V has 15 dB lower harmonic distortion in most spots compared to the JBL LSR308P MkII. If there's a family resemblance, the Adam T5V may have the distortion headroom advantage over the LSR305P MkII as well, which is what you mention possibly hearing at higher volume levels in the mid-field.

I'm really curious to see some studio subs measured. I think we're going to see some real stinkers, some value kings, and a few that are light-years ahead of the rest.

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CumSum

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The Adam T8V has 15 dB lower harmonic distortion in most spots compared to the JBL LSR308P MkII. If there's a family resemblance, the Adam T5V may have the distortion headroom advantage over the LSR305P MkII as well, which is what you mention possibly hearing at higher volume levels in the mid-field.

I'm really curious to see some studio subs measured. I think we're going to see some real stinkers, some value kings, and a few that are light-years ahead of the rest.
Yeah I noticed that to in the measurements so thankfully my ears aren't deceiving me. The JBL's always have a layer of filth over the sound. Sometimes it is not noticeable, other times it is clear as day. Still a good sounding speaker, so I'll just use them in my gym :)

Studio subs at $400 for the entry levels are not a great value for what they are. I have a Presonus T10, now I paid $260 new for it so that wasn't a bad value at all and it is a good sub, but my Rythmik L12 at $540 murders it. Now studio subs have the incredibly important feature that sets them apart from everything else, they have a high pass filter pass through for studio monitors. Well just buy a MiniDSP 2x4HD or DDRC-24 instead and have that feature plus 100 others.

Quality subwoofers really start at $500, whether for ported or for sealed. At $400 where studio subs land, you might as well make the jump up. Now studio subs that cost well into the thousands are absolute rip offs. An Adam Sub15 costs $4000 for example. For $1800 I can have a Rythmik F18 or for $2000 I can have a SVS SB16. And I bet those subs will destroy the Adam in both music and HT.
 

CumSum

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thank you for your thorough description of your experience.AMT is great even if that of ADAM not superflat as Viawave...

since I have ddrc24, a 12 inch sub bass reflex (I prefer sealed configuratio. ) , two 2.5 floor-standers (I sealed them as well) and experimented many, many, many XO... may I ask your settings? below mine.
best
First thing you need to do after finding the best placement for your speakers/subs is time aligning them. First you want to check if the speakers and subs have the same polarity, you can do this by looking at the impulse in REW and then you want to set your time delays. I use REW acoustic timing reference to find the delays. You can also use distance measurements to calculate the delays. Verify that the bass performance improves afterwards.

For XO, I always use Bessel filters for low and high pass filters. They don't offer the greatest slope, but they have linear phase. Why is this important? Well I have experimented using BW/LR and Bessel and the BW/LR many times kill my bass output due to their phase shifts. Bessel's have always maximized my output across the entire spectrum and when I am performing correction I can then get the smoothest bass response as possible with little to no dips in the frequency response.

As for XO frequencies, I always high pass my speakers at 60Hz and low pass the sub at 80Hz. And sometimes I high pass the sub at around 15-20Hz to protect it from some LF content. I wouldn't over think the XO frequencies. Sub at 80Hz I think is a must but speakers have flexibility.

I haven't messed with room treatment. For my desk setup it isn't really necessary given my room and the things in it. In my HT it probably could use some.

For my target curve, it will always resemble a general trend like this give or take a few dB's down low or up top depending on the room and speakers.
DIRAC_T5V_F12s_HarmanMod.PNG
 

soundwave

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I'm not pushing you @amirm but this Xmas I'd like to upgrade my home smartworking desk with a better speakers, considering it became my listening life position... (I could relocate my floor-standers or my Home theater system.. , but I want to support economy in this pandemic time).

I really loved your reviews of Adam T8, KALI LP6, JBL 308MKII, KH80,...
my question to you and to ASR experts is:

Better Adam T5-7, Kali LP6 (nice woofer/tweeter integration) but with a Subwoofer
or
ADAM T8, JBL 308, KALI LP8,.... without subwoofer accepting not excellent midrange...

in other words: 3 ways or 2 ways? this is the question for next week

thanks in advance
I`m also very curious. I ordered a pair of Adam T5V`s. I have to decide wether to send them back or keep them and sell my JBL 305p`s. Some measurements would be much appreciated.
 

Damian

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I'm between the T7V and T8V, any recommendations and why? I'm thinking of going with the T8V due to the bass extension, I will use to listen to music and as a monitor for electric guitar.
 

Alchemist_

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One great thing about these speakers is that they generate essentially no tweeter hiss. This is a common problem in many budget monitors and is something that when you become sensitive to it, you hear it more when not much is playing.

Other users write that the T8V has a hiss, in the standard volume, that is, it is clearly audible.
And the T5V and T7V also have complaints about hissing.
Maybe the hiss depends on the power control on the monitor?
 
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