When I worked for Garrard

[anmpr1]

In the meantime, I've had huge fun with my Z100, AP76 and 86SB as well as an AT6 and 60mk2 removing the glue-like dried greases and getting them back to proper working order.

They sit alongside three Lencos, an early 70's Beogram 3000 and numerous Duals,

I'm eternally fond of the Garrard 401...

a) I owned the following Garrards: Model 30 (came with an 'all in one' stereo featuring a ceramic cart); SL-55B; SL-72B; SL-95; and three Z-100. Never owned a GT-55 but was always interested in it.

b) Lenco was not very active in the US. Didn't they have variable speed for archivists?

c) Bang and Olufsen decks were all integrated arm/cart units, and were quite stylish. Very upscale with commensurate pricing. My guess was that most people who owned them had a complete B&O system. In the late '50s David Hafler imported stand alone B&O cartridges/arms. Not sure what turntable he advised people to use back then, since as far as I know Dynaco never offered a turntable.

d) 301/401 were never big sellers in the US. Very industrial in appearance. Today, prices for those decks are orbiting Jupiter somewhere. I hear they are very popular with retro oriented Japanese audiophiles. On a lark I checked out SkyFi. They have one with a nice tonearm for nine large (sans cartridge). I guess in the scheme of record players it's not so expensive. LOL

Sure looks nice if you like the retro style.

 

[A Surfer]

The cosmetic factor cannot be overlooked in the marketplace. That said, up until 1970 or so, top of the line Garrards looked classy. But you could see the cost cutting in the line over time, especially in the Zero. Garrard went from polished brass fittings to unpolished aluminum (counterweight and controls). The Zero replacement model, GT-55 (by all reports a more sophisticated machine with lower mass magnesium arm, and belt drive) --the overall package--looked decidedly down market. Julian Hirsch, a man who almost never said anything negative in his Stereo Review reviews made it a point to mention that the deck sure didn't look like a top of the line unit. And it didn't.

From a cosmetic standpoint consumers had a choice of Japanese record players from Denon and JVC featuring beautiful (but fake) rosewood laminate over particle board. Looked upmarket (however the bases were actually flimsy and more resonant than they ought to have been). Controls were all motorized and lovely to operate with a solid feel. You had to be gentle with the Garrard because it was easy to jar the table when operating the controls.

Below is a stock image of a JVC deck I once owned that highlights the fit 'n finish. It was a mid-range deck with electo-mechanical arm controls for damping, stylus force, cue control, etc. All that was adjustable while the record was playing. Of course if you wanted real wood and mass, you had to spend a lot more money: something like the Micro--second image. The third image is the last of the zero tracking error Garrards. The contrast is marked.

View attachment 72975

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View attachment 72978

I really enjoy your commentary and analysis. It makes an engaging thread that much richer.

 

[anmpr1]

SME have bought the name back recently along with Loricraft, a company close to here run by an ex-Garrard guy who bought up all the spares.

They have a nice Web site. No prices. If you have to ask... One can observe the difference between 'new' Garrard and updated Japanese product. Respective design DNA remains the same as ever.

I doubt New Garrard will be competing with Technics since the former's customers will likely consist of nostalgia buffs. I'm surprised that Garrard/SME did not install an SPU in their tonearm... to complete the retro vibe.

 

[A Surfer]

They have a nice Web site. No prices. If you have to ask... One can observe the difference between 'new' Garrard and updated Japanese product. Respective design DNA remains the same as ever.

I doubt New Garrard will be competing with Technics since the former's customers will likely consist of nostalgia buffs. I'm surprised that Garrard/SME did not install an SPU in their tonearm... to complete the retro vibe.

View attachment 73100

View attachment 73101

Those are both beautiful examples of audio art.

 

[Frank Dernie]

No prices. If you have to ask...

£23,000 iirc!

 

[Robin L]

£23,000 iirc!

How long does it take for an idler wheel to develop flats? What circumstances would create those flats, how common are they? How does this effect performance? How easy/hard is it to replace or repair an idler wheel?

Note, I had a Strathclyde belt driven 'table for many years, it was old when I got it. The belt stretched out, wanted to replace it, couldn't find the part.

 

[Frank Dernie]

How long does it take for an idler wheel to develop flats? What circumstances would create those flats, how common are they? How does this effect performance? How easy/hard is it to replace or repair an idler wheel?

Note, I had a Strathclyde belt driven 'table for many years, it was old when I got it. The belt stretched out, wanted to replace it, couldn't find the part.

Unless you power it down with the start lever in the "on" position the idler won't develop flats.
There is a place in the US that supplies belts for many old belt drive turntables. That is where I get mine.
http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts.html

 

[DSJR]

I have a massive issue here, which may be well below Frank's sensibilities these days - a love of Lenco's, the 'GL69/72/B55, GL75 and GL78 in particular). The tonearm is massive at 23g or so effective mass, but that didn't stop a HFN reviewer using a highly compliant Shure V15T2 in his review GL75 with no real problems as the arms do seem quite stable despite the mass, so absolutely no trouble today with modern AT's and so on tracking very securely at 2g or so...

No, what gets me is people buying these Lenco decks and carving them up to high heaven, junking the arm (which is very amenable to third party low mass arm tubes and keeping the otherwise good bearings once the V-blocks are replaced), removing the power switch with idler retraction linkage, so it's always engaged and then fitting the remains of what's left into huge massive fancy veneered and polished plinths. I suppose they think they've got a 301 on the cheap (may well be better actually) but it makes me weep, as a sympathetically restored GL75 and even the auto-stop 78 model (no, I'm NOT washing my mouth out!!!), can sound excellent and if you have a good motor still, quite throuigh the stylus too as any residual noise is out-of-phase due to the vertical drive. Only on some (my GL69 is one) dues motor vibration become a possible issue despite the flexible spring mounting and this with idler disconnected!

 

[Robin L]

Unless you power it down with the start lever in the "on" position the idler won't develop flats.
There is a place in the US that supplies belts for many old belt drive turntables. That is where I get mine.
http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts.html

That ship has sailed, don't have the Strathclyde table anymore, like everything else LP related, I rid myself of the lot. But I do notice that Turntable Basics lists the correct belt. Maybe if I was on to this forum ten years ago . . . what followed was an early direct-drive Technics, not bad at all with a Shure M44-7 cartridge.

I've heard enough idler wheel tables with big rumble to suspect a number must have the start lever in the "on" position for years. I haven't heard all that many "fancy" idler wheel 'tables, one of my most recent was an elementary school record player from a yard sale. Wonky as get-all.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I've heard enough idler wheel tables with big rumble to suspect a number must have the start lever in the "on" position for years.

I only know the Garrard units, maybe others didn't remove the tension holding the idler against rim and motor shaft.
Maybe owners stopped the platter with their hand and let the idler skid, that would do it.
In the end it is the quality of the engineering that counts not the drive mechanism.

 

[anmpr1]

Unless you power it down with the start lever in the "on" position the idler won't develop flats.

Exactly. The idler is controlled by a spring activated tension arm which disengages from both the inside platter rim and motor spindle when not in use. As you can tell by the photo, nothing touches the idler disc when the unit is in the 'off' position.

Variable speed control is obtained by moving the idler up or down a tapered motor shaft--the entire idler assembly raises or lowers.

What you get from this mechanical design is instant start up and reasonable torque. What you don't get is, of course, the speed stability of quartz PLL direct drive. That said, wow/flutter or gross speed variations are not noticeable.

I presume the idler on my Z-100 is original, which would make it 50 plus or minus years old. I would be more concerned with the rubber just giving out over so many years (is there such a thing as 'rubber fatigue'--I know plastic gets brittle and tends to crack over the years) but mine works as new. It remains pliable with no visible or audible signs of problems.

 

[Robin L]

I only know the Garrard units, maybe others didn't remove the tension holding the idler against rim and motor shaft.
Maybe owners stopped the platter with their hand and let the idler skid, that would do it.
In the end it is the quality of the engineering that counts not the drive mechanism.

There is also the issue of old turntables being badly stored. For some reason, people kept giving me non-functioning turntables, expecting me to fix them. I guess they thought that would be better than throwing them away. I wound up throwing them away, after many a yard sale and more than one attempt to hand them off to local dealers of second-hand audio gear. I managed to give away a pair of very old Magnapan speakers to one of those folks, who refurbished them, that story has a happy ending.

 

[Hepcat]

Sure looks nice if you like the retro style.

Ugggghhh!!! I like retro but I don't like the looks of that table at all.

1. I don't like the look of a white turntable assembly at all. Perhaps a pre-1960 look is just too retro for even me.

2. I don't like the high gloss reddish finish to the base. I prefer a flatter, darker brown colour.

3. I don't like the rounded edges. I like a square base.

 

[paddycrow]

My father had one of these when I was a kid. I think I was in my twenties when he finally replaced it. This isn't his, but it's exactly like his right down to the beige and white color scheme. His was mounted in a cabinet that he made himself, not mounted in a factory box. It had an adapter for playing a stack of 45s, my memory is that it didn't work very well.

He would have bought it in the early 1960s, so probably a bit before your time at the company.

 

[watchnerd]

My father had one of these when I was a kid. I think I was in my twenties when he finally replaced it. This isn't his, but it's exactly like his right down to the beige and white color scheme. His was mounted in a cabinet that he made himself, not mounted in a factory box. It had an adapter for playing a stack of 45s, my memory is that it didn't work very well.

He would have bought it in the early 1960s, so probably a bit before your time at the company.

View attachment 91283

How does one do alignment with a tonearm like that?

It looks like the tonearm on my Fisher Price record player as a child.

 

[paddycrow]

How does one do alignment with a tonearm like that?

It looks like the tonearm on my Fisher Price record player as a child.

One doesn't! No tracking force adjustment, either.

My recollection is that it had one of those cantilevers that you could flip depending on whether it was a stereo or mono record.

 

[Hepcat]

The cosmetic factor cannot be overlooked in the marketplace. That said, up until 1970 or so, top of the line Garrards looked classy. But you could see the cost cutting in the line over time, especially in the Zero. Garrard went from polished brass fittings to unpolished aluminum (counterweight and controls). The Zero replacement model, GT-55 (by all reports a more sophisticated machine with lower mass magnesium arm, and belt drive) --the overall package--looked decidedly down market. Julian Hirsch, a man who almost never said anything negative in his Stereo Review reviews made it a point to mention that the deck sure didn't look like a top of the line unit. And it didn't.

From a cosmetic standpoint consumers had a choice of Japanese record players from Denon and JVC featuring beautiful (but fake) rosewood laminate over particle board. Looked upmarket (however the bases were actually flimsy and more resonant than they ought to have been). Controls were all motorized and lovely to operate with a solid feel. You had to be gentle with the Garrard because it was easy to jar the table when operating the controls.

Below is a stock image of a JVC deck I once owned that highlights the fit 'n finish. It was a mid-range deck with electo-mechanical arm controls for damping, stylus force, cue control, etc. All that was adjustable while the record was playing. Of course if you wanted real wood and mass, you had to spend a lot more money: something like the Micro--second image. The third image is the last of the zero tracking error Garrards. The contrast is marked.

I don't much like the JVC or Micro turntables you've pictured. They're too glitzy!

What I really like though is the look of the Garrard GT-55. To mean it's the paradigm of a turntable (when it comes to appearance anyway). Perhaps it reminds me of those halcyon days of my youth in the late sixties/early seventies when album oriented rock was starting to supplant the Top 40 but AM radio was still a delight and a good component stereo and muscle car with a tape deck were every young fellow's ambition.

In any event, a few years ago I managed to score a brand new unused Garrard GT-55 with dust cover off Fleabay. Here's a picture:

I'm going to get a custom built base built from interlocking layers of baltic birch. The base I intend to get built will have a finish resembling the one in this picture here but will be nearly twice as tall:

The base should be about the same in height as the one of this Thorens TD 350:

 

[watchnerd]

I don't much like the JVC or Denon turntables you've pictured. They're too glitzy!

Oh, you'd hate the way my Michell Gyro SE looks, then.

Not mine, but look at all those glitzy spinning brass weights. I find it hypMotizing.

 

[Hepcat]

You're right. I look at that Michell Gyro and figure "Huh?! Why?"

 

[watchnerd]

You're right. I look at that Michell Gyro and figure "Huh?! Why?"

'Why' is to mass load the platter.