May I ask why a wide dispersion speaker is preferred?

[JungleXray]

It seems to me that here on this forum most agree that a speaker with a wide dispersion pattern is a good thing. Why is this? If one was to do their stereo listening from the same spot (like a listening chair), and have the speaker toed in to be facing them, wouldn't a wide dispersion pattern be... sort of wasted?

Also lets say that in this hypothetical listening room that one speaker is near a corner. A foot away we will say. Wouldn't having a wide dispersion create an early reflection problem? A problem that a more narrow beaming speaker would not have.

A wide dispersion pattern does not equal a wide sound stage right? If you had a beaming speaker pointed right at the you listening on axis would this not give the best imaging? The best frequency response?

I only can see two problems with a beaming speaker. Having you "head in a vice" is one problem. Maybe you don't want to sit static is one position to get the best out of your speakers. The other is if you wanted to listen with another person. If they were sitting next to you they would not get the same imaging and frequency response. (This is not a problem for me as all my friends think I am an A hole for the money I spent on my system )

So, why is it wide dispersion is preferred?

 

[RayDunzl]

It seems to me that here on this forum most agree that a speaker with a wide dispersion pattern is a good thing.

I have both kinds.

Why is this?

In my case, "fuel economy".

If one was to do their stereo listening from the same spot (like a listening chair), and have the speaker toed in to be facing them, wouldn't a wide dispersion pattern be... sort of wasted?

I find the wide dispersion speakers interfere with themselves in my non-optimally treated room, when sitting in the listening position and critically listening.

Also lets say that in this hypothetical listening room that one speaker is near a corner. A foot away we will say. Wouldn't having a wide dispersion create an early reflection problem? A problem that a more narrow beaming speaker would not have.

Seems so here.

A wide dispersion pattern does not equal a wide sound stage right?

With reflections, the sound field is "stretched".

If you had a beaming speaker pointed right at the you listening on axis would this not give the best imaging?

I find the imaging of the beamers to be preferred.

The best frequency response?

I don't notice a frequency response difference.

I only can see two problems with a beaming speaker. Having you "head in a vice" is one problem. Maybe you don't want to sit static is one position to get the best out of your speakers.

The "best" will always be the sweet spot.

Casually I find them indistinguishable enough that I will find my self not remembering which is playing, like, after doing some messing around with both, of having forgotten to go back to the little ones after some session.

The other is if you wanted to listen with another person. If they were sitting next to you they would not get the same imaging and frequency response. (This is not a problem for me as all my friends think I am an A hole for the money I spent on my system )

When Audio Buddy comes over, like he just did, we sit on either side of the sweet spot with no complaints, and he understands the expenditure, having a somewhat similar system himself.

So, why is it wide dispersion is preferred?

Becuase Dr Toole and others tested people and speakers and that was their response to the questions and when you graph the off-axis response of a smoothly radiating wide dispersion speaker it looks better.

 

[Doodski]

It seems to me that here on this forum most agree that a speaker with a wide dispersion pattern is a good thing. Why is this? If one was to do their stereo listening from the same spot (like a listening chair), and have the speaker toed in to be facing them, wouldn't a wide dispersion pattern be... sort of wasted?

Also lets say that in this hypothetical listening room that one speaker is near a corner. A foot away we will say. Wouldn't having a wide dispersion create an early reflection problem? A problem that a more narrow beaming speaker would not have.

A wide dispersion pattern does not equal a wide sound stage right? If you had a beaming speaker pointed right at the you listening on axis would this not give the best imaging? The best frequency response?

I only can see two problems with a beaming speaker. Having you "head in a vice" is one problem. Maybe you don't want to sit static is one position to get the best out of your speakers. The other is if you wanted to listen with another person. If they were sitting next to you they would not get the same imaging and frequency response. (This is not a problem for me as all my friends think I am an A hole for the money I spent on my system )

So, why is it wide dispersion is preferred?

Dispersion is nice for acoustics. My fav room was when I had 2-3 foot x 6 foot absorptive panels behind my head on the wall. Go figure.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't even know it is wide dispersion. Just that dispersion be even and have drooping response off axis. Panels don't work this way, and plenty here own those. Off axis peaks and dips seem to draw attention to the speaker and away from the music.

 

[richard12511]

It seems to me that here on this forum most agree that a speaker with a wide dispersion pattern is a good thing. Why is this? If one was to do their stereo listening from the same spot (like a listening chair), and have the speaker toed in to be facing them, wouldn't a wide dispersion pattern be... sort of wasted?

Also lets say that in this hypothetical listening room that one speaker is near a corner. A foot away we will say. Wouldn't having a wide dispersion create an early reflection problem? A problem that a more narrow beaming speaker would not have.

A wide dispersion pattern does not equal a wide sound stage right? If you had a beaming speaker pointed right at the you listening on axis would this not give the best imaging? The best frequency response?

I only can see two problems with a beaming speaker. Having you "head in a vice" is one problem. Maybe you don't want to sit static is one position to get the best out of your speakers. The other is if you wanted to listen with another person. If they were sitting next to you they would not get the same imaging and frequency response. (This is not a problem for me as all my friends think I am an A hole for the money I spent on my system )

So, why is it wide dispersion is preferred?

I think it's probably better to say "preferred by most" rather than simply "preferred". The reason people say this is based on the research that Floyd Toole conducted which showed that more people seem to prefer speakers with wider dispersion. Also, even if you only listen in the sweet spot, dispersion width will still affect the sound you hear.

As someone who owns both wide dispersion and narrow dispersion speakers and spends several hours a day on both, I really think one needs to spend a good deal of time listening to both to really know what he/she likes. It might be more likely that you'll prefer wide dispersion, but I wouldn't take that for granted.

I honestly don't know what I prefer anymore. At first I definitely preferred wide, but it seems my preferences may be changing towards more narrow. They're just so different sounding, it's hard to say I definitively prefer one over the other. I like them for different reasons.

During one of the blinds I hosted between these two speakers, one of my friends said something that really resonated with me and characterizes what I like most about narrow dispersion. He said something like "In comparison to the first one, the second speaker sounded like listening with contacts on".

I don't have a similarly good analogy for what I like about wide dispersion, so I'll have to pull one out of my ass. Imagine hearing yourself sing in an open field. How does it sound? Now imagine hearing yourself sing in the shower. Better, right? Everyone sounds better in the shower. Wide dispersion is kinda like listening in the shower.

Obviously both of those analogies are exaggerations, but there is some truth there(imo).

Different people probably have different ideas of what "wide" and "narrow" mean to them, which makes it tough. For reference, my narrow speakers have a ~60° beam width, while my wide speakers have a ~140° beam width.

 

[RayDunzl]

... and when you graph the off-axis response of a smoothly radiating wide dispersion speaker it looks better.

Magnepan LRS

MartinLogan Montis

Magico M2

 

[JungleXray]

Becuase Dr Toole and others tested people and speakers and that was their response to the questions and when you graph the off-axis response of a smoothly radiating wide dispersion speaker it looks better.

When Amirm does his testing (an invaluable resource, so thanks again to this forum!) it seems he makes the point that wide dispersion is a good thing. To me this would mean the inverse is true for narrow. Or, narrow = bad.

I get the fuel economy thing. I get different strokes for different folks. It is very possible I am just reading it wrong. I am a hobbyist, not an engineer or industry person. But it seems everywhere I read, its the same. Wide dispersion is better.

Is it better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not to have it? Makes sense.

BUT. what about a speaker like the Bose 901. A speaker designed to be reflected around the room. Almost like an extreme, exaggerated wide dispersion. No doubt these speakers have they're own purpose, but that purpose seems not to be audiophile listening. Ask any "audiophile" what they think about the reflected sound theory of Hi-Fi listening. Surely it's not good.

To me it seems like narrow dispersion, toed in directly at the listener is the ultimate HI-Fi setup. No?

 

[RayDunzl]

Imagine hearing yourself sing in an open field. How does it sound? Now imagine hearing yourself sing in the shower.

Your analogy might work better if someone else is doing the singing (not to say you may not have a very nice voice)

 

[Doodski]

BUT. what about a speaker like the Bose 901. A speaker designed to be reflected around the room. Almost like an extreme, exaggerated wide dispersion. No doubt these speakers have they're own purpose, but that purpose seems not to be audiophile listening. Ask any "audiophile" what they think about the reflected sound theory of Hi-Fi listening. Surely it's not good.

and.. What about the Polk RTS Series and Definitive Technology and others that have attempted it. I had all those in the sound rooms and we always go back to basics.

 

[JungleXray]

During one of the blinds I hosted between these two speakers, one of my friends said something that really resonated with me and characterizes what I like most about narrow dispersion. He said something like "In comparison to the first one, the second speaker sounded like listening with contacts on".

Yes! That is a great way of putting it. That is kind of what I mean. And considering this is a forum of objectivist listeners, forgoing tube or euphonic distortion for true to source sound, I would think it to be the preferred speaker.

 

[RayDunzl]

If speakers were lamps...

Omni - bare light bulb
Wide - floodlight
Narrow - spotlight

Each has its place.

 

[JungleXray]

Magico M2

View attachment 81142

The Magico graph certainly does look the best. But if you are sitting at 0.00... does it make a difference?

 

[Alexanderc]

Magnepan LRS
View attachment 81139

MartinLogan Montis
View attachment 81141

Magico M2

View attachment 81142

The magico is only measured to 45 degrees

 

[Matias]

The Magico graph certainly does look the best. But if you are sitting at 0.00... does it make a difference?

Yes, we also hear a lot of the reflections of the room.

 

[Alexanderc]

This might be of some interest:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/directivity-definitions.14283/

 

[JungleXray]

If speakers were lamps...

Omni - bare light bulb
Wide - floodlight
Narrow - spotlight

Each has its place.

Makes sense. And to push this a bit further you could say that a flood light is more of a specialty application. Less flexible in use than a floodlight. And why more might prefer the floodlight.

To me though narrow still seems to make the most sense, for sitting in a chair and listening critically.

 

[RayDunzl]

To me though narrow still seems to make the most sense, for sitting in a chair and listening critically.

I prefer my bad speakers for critcal listening, which seem to generally have a 10dB advantage in direct to reflected sound over my "good" speakers.

Measurement (as always) at the listening position

MartinLogan reQuest vs JBL LSR 308

 

[Ron Texas]

It seems to me that here on this forum most agree that a speaker with a wide dispersion pattern is a good thing. Why is this? If one was to do their stereo listening from the same spot (like a listening chair), and have the speaker toed in to be facing them, wouldn't a wide dispersion pattern be... sort of wasted?


So, why is it wide dispersion is preferred?

Gee wiz, that's news to me. Did I miss something?

 

[RayDunzl]

The Magico graph certainly does look the best. But if you are sitting at 0.00... does it make a difference?

Depends on the room.

I heard a pair in a banquet room at the audio show last February. They had several feet to the walls, which were heavily draped, with diffusers, and and carpet, and an absorbent ceiling, and maybe 15 feet behind them.

Just for a minute or two, but they sounded superb.

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/magico-at-florida-audio-expo-2020.html

 

[JungleXray]

Gee wiz, that's news to me. Did I miss something?

Well, I don't have any specific examples. It just seems like designers believe wide and even is best. Like those Magico speakers.
I read reviews that might say something like, "the tweeter starts beaming a 10,000 kHz so off axis response is bad."

Im beating a dead horse here but if its toed in to the listener I wonder how much of a difference it would make.

And if the driver is narrow, like an exponential horn for example, aiming accurate sound at me like rifle vs the spray of a shotgun. Seems better, no?

The speakers I listen to are narrow, I ask the experts here because I was wondering if I was missing out haha.