PS Audio Talking Smack About Amirm

[KaiserSoze]

If not for Paul's slander of Amir there would be no thread and subsequent dog pile. Paul started this and now he can deal with the fall out.

I've sampled his video's from time to time and I don't have much respect for him based on what he has to say.

When I saw the title of his Video my first statement was better to have long, balanced, interconnects. That's just common sense. Signal level, balanced, is good to 200 feet. Try running your speaker level cables that long and see what you get. Paul, as an EE (is he?), should understand this from the word go.

If you are using 14 gauge, 200 ft will give you .5 Ohm each direction, total 1 Ohm in series with speaker. Used with a 4-Ohm speaker, .8 of Vout (amp output) will appear across the speaker. .8^2 = .64 => -2 dB. If this were for a permanent installation it might bother me, but not for a temporary installation. Of course some people would be concerned with the capacitance and inductance of 200 ft of ordinary 14 gauge wire. The reason that Paul would advise against it is that he thinks that speaker cables have their own individual sound for even short runs, so with a long run like this, he would probably expect the speaker wire to affect the sound nearly as much as the speakers themselves.

Note also that using interconnects probably means that you have an amp of some sort set up out in the woods somewhere and that you'll need to additionally provide power to the amp. The resistance of the wire used to carry power to the amp must be much lower than the load impedance lest the power wiring's share of the transformer voltage (the transformer on the pole or on the concrete pad) could be greater than the amplifier's share. If the amp's power consumption happens to be 100 Watts, then 120^2/Rl = 100 => Rl (the load impedance) will be 144 Ohm. The implication is that the wire you would use to connect the speakers placed in the back forty would need to be heavier than the wire you would use to carry power to the amp if you put the amp back there, close to the speakers.

 

[watchnerd]

Palate fail. Ingredients actually matter. That being said, I am amazed at how parochial people are over the food
that they grew up with. It is interesting to discuss cooking and favorite dishes in different places.
The opinions are strong to say the least. I think down east vinegar based pork BBQ is best BTW.

Here in the South arguing over BBQ is a near Olympic event. Great fun to be sure. Pig pickings are even better!

Strict Italian-inspired pizza is a type of pizza.

I recognize that.

And within that genre, there are rules.

But I'm not going discount the good tasting and fun pizzas I've had that break those rules.

Saying there is only one kind of legitimate pizza is a boring and predictable trope I've heard for decades.

Luckily the food world is bigger than the narrow mind of puritans.

Of course ingredients matter.

Nobody said otherwise.

It's like arguing over French cuisine. The orthodox always get their panties in a wad.

Nouvelle-cuisine was taboo for years.

 

[cistercian]

If you are using 14 gauge, 200 ft will give you .5 Ohm each direction, total 1 Ohm in series with speaker. Used with a 4-Ohm speaker, .8 of Vout (amp output) will appear across the speaker. .8^2 = .64 => -2 dB. If this were for a permanent installation it might bother me, but not for a temporary installation. Of course some people would be concerned with the capacitance and inductance of 200 ft of ordinary 14 gauge wire. The reason that Paul would advise against it is that he thinks that speaker cables have their own individual sound for even short runs, so with a long run like this, he would probably expect the speaker wire to affect the sound nearly as much as the speakers themselves.

Note also that using interconnects probably means that you have an amp of some sort set up out in the woods somewhere and that you'll need to additionally provide power to the amp. The resistance of the wire used to carry power to the amp must be much lower than the load impedance lest the power wiring's share of the transformer voltage (the transformer on the pole or on the concrete pad) could be greater than the amplifier's share. If the amp's power consumption happens to be 100 Watts, then 120^2/Rl = 100 => Rl (the load impedance) will be 144 Ohm. The implication is that the wire you would use to connect the speakers placed in the back forty would need to be heavier than the wire you would use to carry power to the amp if you put the amp back there, close to the speakers.

Italian-inspired pizza is a type of pizza.

I recognize that.

And within that genre, there are rules.

But I'm not going discount the good tasting and fun pizzas I've had that break those rules.

Of course ingredients matter.

Nobody said otherwise.

The thing is people are fierce in defending and promoting what food they grew up with. I am sad because the pizza I
love is made with ingredients that just are not economically used where I live in NC. Real bagels are also not available here.
That being said, arguments over what food is the best is not only entertaining but educational too! I love to cook so
I enjoy learning new things and trying them out. My German great grandmother made homemade mayonnaise for her
potato salad and if you make it you must use free range chicken eggs with the gonzo orange yolks or it does not taste right.
Regular eggs in the supermarket do not have the same flavor. The same goes for classic yellow cake recipes.
Over time ingredients available change.
I was spoiled by where and when I grew up.

 

[watchnerd]

The thing is people are fierce in defending and promoting what food they grew up with. I am sad because the pizza I
love is made with ingredients that just are not economically used where I live in NC. Real bagels are also not available here.
That being said, arguments over what food is the best is not only entertaining but educational too! I love to cook so
I enjoy learning new things and trying them out. My German great grandmother made homemade mayonnaise for her
potato salad and if you make it you must use free range chicken eggs with the gonzo orange yolks or it does not taste right.
Regular eggs in the supermarket do not have the same flavor. The same goes for classic yellow cake recipes.
Over time ingredients available change.
I was spoiled by where and when I grew up.

Lots of people have stories like yours.

We cook 95.2% of the food we eat at home.

We can get proper pasture-raised, locally produced eggs with orange yolks in the super market here. Yes, they cost $8.99 / dozen, but that's the only eggs we'll buy.

 

[cistercian]

In the 80's in southern Indiana I ate the best fried chicken on the planet. Comically, the establishment was called
"the Chicken Place". I took my southern bride there assuring her it was the best. After she ate it she told the owner
"I was raised in the South and I know fried chicken. And your fried chicken is the best damn chicken I ever put in my mouth!"

Context is important here. The part of Southern Indiana I was in is heavily German. The owner was stoic in the extreme and
never smiled. The women that cooked and prepared the fresh chicken from the farm down the road all had white hair
and deep fried it in pure lard. They were amazing.

The owner looked at my wife and for about 3/4 of a second smiled...it was hilarious.

The Chicken Place in Ireland Indiana. Incredible last time I was there in the early 2000's still.

 

[cistercian]

Lots of people have stories like yours.

We cook 95.2% of the food we eat at home.

We can get proper pasture-raised, locally produced eggs with orange yolks in the super market here. Yes, they cost $8.99 / dozen, but that's the only eggs we'll buy.

Good local eggs are available here too...and too much money. Friends that own chickens give them to me for free!
When I was a boy eggs were much better in the store. I also hated steak then as all of it was local grass fed and chewy.
I like corn finished beef best. So that is better...except for the hormones and antibiotics!

The food supply now is very, very different from when I was young. HFC is rampant in products that used Sucrose
when I was a boy. And the flavor is not the same.

 

[Doodski]

There are many comments at the PS Audio YouTube page for this. It's amazing the loyalty some peeps have for Paul's apparently superhuman hearing. I made a comment and I will be seeing if it stays in the commentary section.

"Doodski Man
Audio Science Review has measurements available in the public domain for all to see. What measurements does PS Audio have in the public domain? Rather than slag Audio Science Review and Amir it would be more gentlemanly and more scientific for PS Audio to publish their version of measurements with the AP Analyzer. Then peeps can compare them. Differences of measurement may be due to methodology and they may not. Until PS Audio publishes it's own measurements this slagging of Audio Science Review is simply rhetoric and tossing stuff at the wall hoping it sticks."

 

[watchnerd]

There are many comments at the PS Audio YouTube page for this. It's amazing the loyalty some peeps have for Paul's apparently superhuman hearing. I made a comment and I will be seeing if it stays in the commentary section.

"Doodski Man
Audio Science Review has measurements available in the public domain for all to see. What measurements does PS Audio have in the public domain? Rather than slag Audio Science Review and Amir it would be more gentlemanly and more scientific for PS Audio to publish their version of measurements with the AP Analyzer. Then peeps can compare them. Differences of measurement may be due to methodology and they may not. Until PS Audio publishes it's own measurements this slagging of Audio Science Review is simply rhetoric and tossing stuff at the wall hoping it sticks."

Even if they do publish them, it's easy for them to say "but trust your ears....just listen."

 

[Travis]

Why are you attempting to make these points?

Paul didn't need to say a goddamned thing. All he ever had/has to do to prove his point is post his contrary measurements where they are proving Amir to be incorrect.

But slander it easier path for Paul.

 

[Travis]

Pepi's white clam pizza, New Haven, can't beat that

 

[jsrtheta]

The thing is people are fierce in defending and promoting what food they grew up with. I am sad because the pizza I
love is made with ingredients that just are not economically used where I live in NC. Real bagels are also not available here.
That being said, arguments over what food is the best is not only entertaining but educational too! I love to cook so
I enjoy learning new things and trying them out. My German great grandmother made homemade mayonnaise for her
potato salad and if you make it you must use free range chicken eggs with the gonzo orange yolks or it does not taste right.
Regular eggs in the supermarket do not have the same flavor. The same goes for classic yellow cake recipes.
Over time ingredients available change.
I was spoiled by where and when I grew up.

Okay, here is the truth about pizza: First, the best pizza in the world is Chicago deep dish. Chicago thin crust is next, and miles above the rest of the universe of pizza, but deep dish is best. (There used to be a pizzeria in Chicago called "New York Style Pizza, the World's Worst Pizza".)

Previously, the best deep dish was served at Gino's East on East Superior, but they were sold to Lettuce Entertain You and became a soggier version of great deep dish, so. The champion left standing is Pizzeria Due, followed by Pizzeria Uno.

All the rest is dross. End of.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Even if they do publish them, it's easy for them to say "but trust your ears....just listen."

There's nothing wrong with "just listen". PS audio products obviously don't sound bad. The issue lies in the price and the claims. Instead of saying resolving and musical, saying colored and re-tuned sound is fine.
The products may fail delivering low noise and distortion but when it comes to power, it always hit the mark.
Possibly, we could leave them alone and let the rich guys pour their money on Paul. They are all happy. It's different now only because Paul made video talking crap on ASR/Amir.
It becomes much clearer this way.

 

[Travis]

Here is the definitive answer on Pineapple on pizza

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1296192619060637701

 

[JohnYang1997]

We all know that pineapple is amazing on pizza. What about banana?

 

[usersky]

A pile-on where a respected industry veteran has been called a "moron" by a competing manufacturer in an open, very public forum.

Now that "respected" part is rather subjective to say the least. Just search for the video where he struggles with 2 resistors on board and respect the veteran afterwards. I admit I enjoy what Paul started, it's fun and proves that even PS audio feels the heat of measurements vs salesmen bs. Respect for him, that's something I lost long time ago, watching him harvesting mains noise.

 

[CDMC]

What standards and protocols are they using at PS Audio? AES? ISO?

B.S.

 

[Doodski]

Okay, here is the truth about pizza: First, the best pizza in the world is Chicago deep dish.

I grew up in a Italian neighbourhood and took on some traits and swear words too. If I get hurt and am in pain I swear profusely in Italian. The best deep dish pizza I had was like a pie made by a old lady at a hole-in-the-wall restaurant nobody seemed to know about. Second to that was in Vancouver there is a restaurant with a wood fired oven. They stack up the ingredients on a thin crust about 2+" thick (5cm+). After cooking in the wood fire oven it comes out maybe 3/4" thick. I overestimated and ordered a X-large and after 2 slices I was done. Very filling.

 

[CDMC]

I totally disagree! There are audiophools who have bought into the poorly designed, bad-casework clad PSAudio cult, and some can be swayed to come to the light. The more we can stuff threads like these with keywords so that they can find it - whether through Google or some other link, the better. Get them here, make them see the error of their ways.

The only way they will find this thread by keyword is of they type “pineapple pork paul”.

 

[RayDunzl]

"Cultural identity crisis casserole" ?

One night many years ago we went to an Ethiopian restaurant.

There were no utensils, you were expected to eat with your hands.

One of us asked "Why are there no utensils?""

Another responded "Because there is actually no food in Ethiopia".

 

[CDMC]

Paul, as an EE (is he?), should understand this from the word go.

Paul has no formal education beyond high school. Stan was the engineer (the S of PS Audio). Stan left and had his own company (supermods).