Seeking recommendations: Best active speakers for $10k/pair? (Would also be offered for measurement.)

[echopraxia]

I don't know how much I'd go messing around with target curves in the GLM software, I think I would use it only to EQ room modes under the transition frequency since they basically measure perfectly neutral and should sound ideal as is.

Yes, but I don't want completely neutral; I prefer a more Harman Curve sound.

It depends quite a lot on the room and speaker positioning also. In one of my better rooms, the 8351B sound really incredible with no EQ at all enabled. A good/decent room is where the flat response really shines.

But in my (almost square) room I’m currently using for a home office, the acoustics are absolutely terrible. Room correction has to make a lot of changes (as you can see above), and the result is a curve that loses its natural declining slope. Therefore in that case, a smooth declining curve helps quite a lot there.

It’s quite impressive how good they can sound in such a terrible acoustical environment, thanks to EQ. But they sound even more incredible in a better room. I will have to figure out how to move my setup with these into a larger and more rectangular room at some point

 

[echopraxia]

Ah, thank you. I will try mucking about a bit with that.

I do think it would have been more logicial to put the filters you can use in the Sound Character Profiler in the window for the SCP! I'm also unclear what 'Extension' and 'Strength' mean!!

I do however need to 'read the f*ing manual' so, until I have done so, I better not complain!!!

Doug

If I were you I’d start by trying the -1db/octave profile, the -0.5db/octave profile, and no profile, and from those get a feel for where in that spectrum you want If these aren’t already satisfying. Then just look at what these presets are doing to filters 3 and 4, and blend between (or extrapolate from) the settings there to get what you want.

You can just play around with the filter settings anyway and see how the graph responds as you make those changes.

 

[Jimshoe]

If I were you I’d start by trying the -1db/octave profile, the -0.5db/octave profile, and no profile, and from those get a feel for where in that spectrum you want If these aren’t already satisfying. Then just look at what these presets are doing to filters 3 and 4, and blend between (or extrapolate from) the settings there to get what you want.

You can just play around with the filter settings anyway and see how the graph responds as you make those changes.

Yes, that's where I am now - I like the gentle roll off these provide. Frustratingly it does not seem possible to add a similar lift at the bass end. Is it possible to change the type of filter 3 and 4 are?

 

[echopraxia]

Yes, that's where I am now - I like the gentle roll off these provide. Frustratingly it does not seem possible to add a similar lift at the bass end. Is it possible to change the type of filter 3 and 4 are?

I‘m not sure, as I haven’t tried. But, attenuating the non-low frequencies is equivalent to boosting the low frequencies, so you should be able to accomplish what you want anyway by just attenuating the opposite of what you want to boost.

What you want will probably have to be accomplished by manually configuring filters 3&4 though: I don’t think the manual settings in the profiler (those “extension” and “strength“ settings) can do that, but I’m pretty sure the raw filter parameters can. Just be sure to apply them to both speakers when you edit them, as it doesn’t do this automatically.

(I assume we are still talking about smooth target curves here, not trying to fix bass nulls in your rooms, which is another story entirely.)

 

[Jimshoe]

I‘m not sure, as I haven’t tried. But, attenuating the higher frequencies is equivalent to boosting the lower frequencies, so you should be able to accomplish what you want anyway. What you want will probably have to be accomplished by manually configuring filters 3&4 though: I don’t think the manual settings in the profiler (those “extension” and “strength“ settings) can do that, but I’m pretty sure the raw filter parameters can. Just be sure to apply them to both speakers when you edit them, as it doesn’t do this automatically.

Thanks

 

[detlev24]

has anyone tried the PMC or the Focal monitors?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/twotwo8--pmc-twotwo8-8-inch-active-studio-monitor-pair

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Trio11Be--focal-trio11-be-10-inch-powered-studio-monitor

Focal Trio11 Be - Midfield-Monitor im Test [EN translation].

Measurements of the Focal monitors are provided in the linked article. I would, however, be more interested in the Dynaudio Core 59, e.g., due to AES3 digital inputs.

 

[pjug]

If you want to easily test what I’m hearing, play the first 10 seconds of AC/DC Back in Black. The song starts with some initial tempo beats by the drummer and guitar (lightly). What I had not head before was that between each of the first ~8 tempo beats is a very subtle “thump” sound (from what exactly, I don’t know, but it could be a hand tapping/resting gently on a resonant surface close to a mic, or the mic itself). On the Genelec 8351B it is a very distinct and well defined thump — a clear transient bass impulse that has a clearly defined beginning and end.

I had been meaning to try this. I don't have any trouble hearing it on inexpensive headphones and speakers (easy to hear even with $100 Overnight Sensations). Also I don't notice a difference in the sound characteristics of the thump. Although I did not do quick AB back and forth comparison.

 

[echopraxia]

I had been meaning to try this. I don't have any trouble hearing it on inexpensive headphones and speakers (easy to hear even with $100 Overnight Sensations). Also I don't notice a difference in the sound characteristics of the thump. Although I did not do quick AB back and forth comparison.

Yeah it was just room effects. Sorry for the confusion. When I moved some of my speakers around later to do the blind test I tried this track and heard it clearly when the same speakers were moved to another room. Just goes to show how important it is to deal with room effects on bass.

 

[echopraxia]

Just for fun I set up the KH310s in my medium/large TV room, using my Rythmik F18s as “stands”. They are very impressive, not just in sound quality but in SPL — with just the KH310s alone (subwoofers off) I pushed 100db on fairly bassy music and they didn’t seem strained at all (no indicator the limiters engaged). This is from about 15-20 feet away.

Turning subs on filled in the true sub-bass (10-30hz), but the Neumanns sounded just as authoritative and impactful all the way down to their 30hz bass extension when the subs are turned off. Very impressive. That said, the Rythmiks can push 135db together with all 5.2 channels engaged so I don’t expect two little KH310s alone to match that obviously.

Anyway, what I’m getting to is this: If the stands for my Genelecs don’t arrive by this weekend, I’ll just set them on my subwoofers as stands like I have here with the Neumanns and do some SPL tests for those of you who wanted to know

(Please ignore the ugly torn up wallpaper; incremental remodel in progress.)

 

[thewas]

I would never rotate the KH310 like that as smooth and wide horizontal dispersion and narrow vertical one is usually preferable and not vice versa.

 

[echopraxia]

I would never rotate the KH310 like that as smooth and wide horizontal dispersion and narrow vertical one is usually preferable and not vice versa.

I know, this was mostly an SPL test. Still they sound surprisingly good despite being vertical like this.

 

[Vintage57]

I know, this was mostly an SPL test. Still they sound surprisingly good despite being vertical like this.

Did you get them repaired. IIRC there was a problem with one of them.

 

[Chrise36]

My choice would be ATC scm40aslt or Quested v3110 monitors and a pair of subs.

 

[echopraxia]

Did you get them repaired. IIRC there was a problem with one of them.

Yeah the problem was a defect inside my brain for not testing a different physical position of the speaker (instead of just swapping signal inputs around to isolate the cause): there was a small object very close to the right speaker that resonates at just the right bass frequency to cause the noise. Moving the speaker away fixed the problem, and then moving it back etc and I finally figured it out.

So, all this to hastily replace a “broken“ speaker that wasn’t actually broken. I’m not mad though, I’m enjoying the Genelecs

 

[HooStat]

@echopraxia Just curious as to your subjective impressions of the Neumann's and the Genelecs. They both measure well, so I am curious as to what you think might be the differences between the two well-engineered speakers. Set-up, ergonomics, loudness, customizability, etc as well as your enjoyment of music listening to them.

 

[echopraxia]

@echopraxia Just curious as to your subjective impressions of the Neumann's and the Genelecs. They both measure well, so I am curious as to what you think might be the differences between the two well-engineered speakers. Set-up, ergonomics, loudness, customizability, etc as well as your enjoyment of music listening to them.

Well first, I find the EQ’ed flat nature of active monitors to make them generally superior to most passives, particularly due to bass response (which also gets some benefits due to active crossovers beyond what can he accomplished with pure EQ). For example, the Neumann KH310 has very obviously better bass extension and flatness than any of my passive towers. It’s an extremely audible difference. With subwoofers, the passive towers become more competitive.

Then, one of the biggest advantages the Genelec has is the room correction and EQ capability built into the speaker. This makes a huge difference in the small home office with terrible acoustics where I currently run them.

Lastly, I only briefly compared them in another room without room correction for either, and not even side by side. I’m waiting for stands to arrive before doing more serious comparisons. But I will say the Neumann KH310 sound way better than Revel F206, and just a single mono Genelec in the same room (just a quick test) sounded incredible, easily better than either. Could have been many factors though, so it was hardy a test worth counting on. I will do a more proper comparison of sound quality when the stands get here.

 

[Vintage57]

As a long time ATC enthusiast that has been blown away by the bass from the Neumanns and moved on from ATC.
I have both the KH420's and a the KH120's with a KH805 sub. I'm keen to learn about the new Genelec products from someone that has been using the Neumanns.

 

[echopraxia]

Genelec 8351B at 15 feet distance, playing Mars Adventure by Brendon Moeller, SPL meter reads 106-107db when Genelec limiter engages (as indicated by the Genelec LED turning from green to orange):

(Note: During the reading I held the meter free floating in air where my ears would be — this photo on the ground is just for the sake of the photo.)

No subwoofers turned on during this test, obviously. I tried seeing how loud I could go with the subs on but couldn’t do any better because my ears hurt. Need to put on hearing protection to push any further

 

[HooStat]

Those are the most expensive speaker stands I have ever seen. (I realize you are waiting for the real stands to arrive).

 

[Sancus]

Genelec 8351B at 15 feet distance, playing Mars Adventure by Brendon Moeller, SPL meter reads 106-107db when Genelec limiter engages (as indicated by the Genelec LED turning from green to orange):

So if you do the math with Toole's -3dB/DD curve for in-room loudness, that's roughly 112-113dB at 1 meter which, perhaps unsurprisingly, is the exact general max SPL spec Genelec provides for the 8351B in half space.

P.S. I can't believe you ran that test without hearing protection