Old Formula 1 video. Nearly an hour long so only watch if you are interested in fairly historic F1. May be spoiled for some by me being in it

[anmpr1]

They could be, but I suspect they are Chinese Hamilton fans, he's a megastar pretty much everywhere.

Yes. I was being a bit ironic. That's the smiley face for you. Like I said, these F1 guys are rock stars in certain venues. Especially with the girls. Not a race car driver, but the same in other sports... I had a work wife (no sex, just brought me food) who was gaga over some soccer star named Ronaldo. Had his posters on her wall and cell phone. Now, I'll admit that I'm a pretty handsome and athletic guy (a joke for those who are counting) but I knew I had to draw the line at Ronaldo.

 

[anmpr1]

According to one chap in the programme, Hamilton is, like other drivers, as interchangeable as a lightbulb.

Some argue whether drivers are even athletes in the usual sense of the word, and whether auto racing is a even sport in the usual sense of the word. I don't get involved in these fine points of semantics. However, I doubt that drivers are, analogically speaking, replaceable in the same sense as widgets. That would surprise me.

 

[balletboy]

Some argue whether drivers are even athletes in the usual sense of the word, and whether auto racing is a even sport in the usual sense of the word. I don't get involved in these fine points of semantics. However, I doubt that drivers are, analogically speaking, replaceable in the same sense as widgets. That would surprise me.

I don't go with the lightbulb theory. They are serious athletes these days, I think Alan Jones was the last driver who trained in the pub. Frank probably knew him well.

 

[Soniclife]

According to one chap in the programme, Hamilton is, like other drivers, as interchangeable as a lightbulb.

What happened at Red Bull last year shows the very top drivers don't just have drop in replacements, I'm sure the teams wish it were so, they could just hire the best at PR and pay them way less.

 

[tuga]

Yes. I was being a bit ironic. That's the smiley face for you. Like I said, these F1 guys are rock stars in certain venues. Especially with the girls. Not a race car driver, but the same in other sports... I had a work wife (no sex, just brought me food) who was gaga over some soccer star named Ronaldo. Had his posters on her wall and cell phone. Now, I'll admit that I'm a pretty handsome and athletic guy (a joke for those who are counting) but I knew I had to draw the line at Ronaldo.

Do you mean this Ronaldo?

His performance is objectively tested in this video, an F1 on legs:

 

[Frank Dernie]

As far as F1 in America? Peugeot, Renault, McLaren, Alfa, and even Mercedes-Benz are not names that the average American can identify with. The driver's names are not well known. In Europe drivers are rock stars.

Internationality of motor sports? Below is a pic from the Shanghai GP. Typical Brits doing their typical thing!

The one thing one notices is that the driver nationality makes a big difference.
In Spain, for example, there were hardly any spectators at the F1 race, as opposed to the 'bikes, until Alonso then everything sold out a year in advance.
The US hasn't had a top driver since Mario Andretti so F1 isn't much attraction to the average guy and anyway in the US domestic sports are huge money trees so International stuff gets less coverage, though the F1 promotion company has been bought by a US company now, so we will see.
Lewis Hamilton is a six times World Champion and his fans are legion.

 

[Neddy]

Fantastic filum, thanks Mr. Dernie!
Some pretty remarkable - and pithy - comments about all 'the players' involved!
Brings up so many fun memories for me -
- room full of HP D sized plotters flapping away in the background
- Merc 450SLC I had for about 10 yrs, flying around the lovely curves on Hwy 69 north of Parry Sound Ontario at 'speed'...only to be passed by an OPP trooper 'in a hurry'!!
Nice (future) reference to 'digitally recorded choral music', eh?
Many thanks!
PS. Hamilton fan here, too.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Frank is a well-known name to anyone who followed motorsport in the Mansell/Hill days, apparently also going back to Hesketh, probably one of the last private team owners. British dominance in FI and auto sport engineering is quite extraordinary, mainly around Frank's patch, but also over towards East Anglia with Lotus and Lola. Lola were based in Huntingdon, the world centre for great hifi (Quad, Cyrus, dCS, IAG, Meridian, probably several others).

My company acted as a consultant to Lola for a while. The place I stayed had hifi people staying there too and I got friendly with some of them.

 

[Thomas savage]

The one thing one notices is that the driver nationality makes a big difference.
In Spain, for example, there were hardly any spectators at the F1 race, as opposed to the 'bikes, until Alonso then everything sold out a year in advance.
The US hasn't had a top driver since Mario Andretti so F1 isn't much attraction to the average guy and anyway in the US domestic sports are huge money trees so International stuff gets less coverage, though the F1 promotion company has been bought by a US company now, so we will see.
Lewis Hamilton is a six times World Champion and his fans are legion.

So true ! It's chicken and egg for F1 in the US, you know the US fans will only be interested if they have a winner on the grid . Unlike say , Brazil that while would like another senna , Massa keeps it ticking over or did .

F1 doesn't really need the US market, that probably pisses off the yanks no end lol maybe that's why we don't get those guys in a car .

 

[Frank Dernie]

I don't go with the lightbulb theory. They are serious athletes these days, I think Alan Jones was the last driver who trained in the pub. Frank probably knew him well.

I worked closely with Jonsey and we are still in touch.
I helped Michael Schumacher up to his first championship and he was incredibly fit. Most prior to him drivers are panting and knackered after a qualifying run, he could run the whole Grand Prix at qualifying level if necessary, he completely changed the game.
Yes they have to be outstanding athletes these days to keep up the performance under high loads and temperatures.
Some always were. I remember Jody Schekter, 1979 World Champion winning the world superstar championship where athletes from lots of sports competed in mainly athletic type competion.
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/81world.html

 

[Frank Dernie]

The difference between drivers tends to be less than the difference between the cars though. In the 70 years of the World Championship the WC has almost always been the better of the 2 drivers in the best car.
OTOH the best drivers usually end up in the best cars for obvious reasons.

 

[Thomas savage]

The difference between drivers tends to be less than the difference between the cars though. In the 70 years of the World Championship the WC has almost always been the better of the 2 drivers in the best car.
OTOH the best drivers usually end up in the best cars for obvious reasons.

Getting yourself in the right car at the right time is an attribute in of itself imo.

I love these insights into F1 and your career, the enthusiasm is so obvious and breaks through what otherwise could seem as a exclusive environment.

 

[Feargal]

I saw a couple of those jet powered dragsters once. Pretty impressive sound and all. However, the top fuel cars were faster and when you consider that is all transferred from tires to pavement kind of crazy.

As for understanding English, try some fast talking Irish accents. I was working with a specialized all Irish installation crew once. I'd been around them a couple weeks. Got into an elevator with one of my co-workers and three of these guys. They were telling me what they were going to accomplish that day. When they got off on a lower floor my co-worker said, "I didn't know you could speak their language". "oh yeah sure I can." "What do you call that stuff they speak anyway?" I said, "they were speaking English." Then I walked away out of the elevator.

Those guys sounded a lot like this sheep farmer.

Sorry I'm late to the conversation and this is veering totally off topic but it's time to give a Northern Irish accent an airing.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I guess in the world of auto racing, F1 is considered the pinnacle.

There is no doubt there, a winning F1 budget is around $350 million per year. It needs to be very effective marketing to raise that.
Ferrari has been around longest and as an iconic brand raise hundreds of millions a year selling souvenirs.
Red Bull is a very rich worldwide brand and bought one of the UK teams, which had started out as Stewart GP then become Jaguar beforehand and put their name on it.
Mercedes was more complex.
The origin of the engine company was Ilmor, set up by a couple of ex-Cosworth engineers, Mario Ilien and Paul Morgan with funding from Roger Penske to make a Chevrolet branded Indy car engine.
They made a F1 V10, Mercedes bought that side of the business and when the engine started to dominate put their badge on it. Ilmor continues doing power boat racing engines etc too. The engines are still designed and built in Brixworth, Northamptonshire.
On the chassis side the bought the Brawn team based in Brackley in Oxfordshire. Before Brawn it was Honda, before Honda it was BAR and before BAR it was Tyrrell!

 

[Thomas savage]

The thing about F1 I don't understand is how McLaren reunited with Honda failed with these new engine regulations.

The red bull managed to suffer a bad engine and still have albeit limited success but McLaren just drop to nowhere.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Getting yourself in the right car at the right time is an attribute in of itself imo.

I love these insights into F1 and your career, the enthusiasm is so obvious and breaks through what otherwise could seem as a exclusive environment.

I have been passionate about it since childhood but it was never the driving side that interested me, it was "why is one car faster than another?"
Winning is about much more than having a fast car though, but so few people ever have a fast car few people get the opportunity to learn about the rest!
I liken trying to get a quick car to climbing a cliff. Every year the rule changes are like weather changing the best route up the cliff but until you get to the top of the cliff you don't even realise there is another, and another to climb before getting to the summit.
There are no books you can read to learn about it.

 

[Thomas savage]

I have been passionate about it since childhood but it was never the driving side that interested me, it was "why is one car faster than another?"
Winning is about much more than having a fast car though, but so few people ever have a fast car few people get the opportunity to learn about the rest!
I liken trying to get a quick car to climbing a cliff. Every year the rule changes are like weather changing the best route up the cliff but until you get to the top of the cliff you don't even realise there is another, and another to climb before getting to the summit.
There are no books you can read to learn about it.

Well Jenson button and Ross brawn racing had that car advantage, in memory it's the last time a constructor stole such a march on everyone else.

For me the rule changes are the challenge ,they're the level bringer and offer everyone the same opportunity in a strange way they are the socialism in an otherwise capitalised sport.

Just my outsider , know nothing take.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The thing about F1 I don't understand is how McLaren reunited with Honda failed with these new engine regulations.

The red bull managed to suffer a bad engine and still have albeit limited success but McLaren just drop to nowhere.

I don't think Honda are as good as the image.
The 1984 engine was about 180bhp down on the Renault and unreliable. The 1985 engine was powerful but unreliable. The 1986 engine was good, but probably not as good as people thought at the time. Lotus made a big thing about not being competitive because of the Renault engine and convinced Honda to go with them but at the first test at Rio in 1987 they were 2 seconds a lap slower than us at the same fuel consumption, so it was more our car than their engine (I admit being biased here) but Senna was much more competitive in the Renault engined Lotus in 1986 than he was in the Honda one in 1987.
I genuinely believe Renault made the best turbo engine it was just never fitted to a good chassis. They dominated when they went to Williams and again pre-hybrid with Red Bull.
The McLaren-Honda domination in 1989 was big but mainly because theirs was the only car which worked on the spec tyre (which they developed) and they had the 2 best drivers IMHO...

 

[Feargal]

I personally think the design regulations are too strict now and I'm not totally in favour of budget caps - perhaps a moderate cap but not cutting it all to the bone, which appears to be about to happen. And the strict regulations just mean teams end up spending millions on minuscule changes which the average joe couldn't really understand or care that much about.

 

[Thomas savage]

I don't think Honda are as good as the image.
The 1984 engine was about 180bhp down on the Renault and unreliable. The 1985 engine was powerful but unreliable. The 1986 engine was good, but probably not as good as people thought at the time. Lotus made a big thing about not being competitive because of the Renault engine and convinced Honda to go with them but at the first test at Rio in 1987 they were 2 seconds a lap slower than us at the same fuel consumption, so it was more our car than their engine (I admit being biased here) but Senna was much more competitive in the Renault engined Lotus in 1986 than he was in the Honda one in 1987.
I genuinely believe Renault made the best turbo engine it was just never fitted to a good chassis. They dominated when they went to Williams and again pre-hybrid with Red Bull.
The McLaren-Honda domination in 1989 was big but mainly because theirs was the only car which worked on the spec tyre (which they developed) and they had the 2 best drivers IMHO...

This is much more interesting than kipple and audibly indistinguishable DACs ..