Dutch & Dutch 8C Quasi-Anechoic Spinorama and Measurements

[Absolute]

My followup on the Dutch & Dutch 8c is now reprinted on the Stereophile website: https://www.stereophile.com/content...e-loudspeaker-system-john-atkinson-april-2020

Note that fig.1 was omitted from the print version due to lack of space. Note also that fig.3 compares the spatially averaged in-room response of the REW-corrected 8cs with that of the uncorrected KEF LS50s. Having just read Amir's review of the LS50 on ASR, I think this graph and my following comments correlate nicely with Amir's analysis of the KEF's tonal balance.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

Excellent follow-up, thank you. I would still like to see you comment about how you liked the sound relative to the Mino and Magico.
Especially the Mino since that one seems to have quite wide dispersion compared to most others.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

It's interesting to see all the measurements of the Dutch & Dutch 8c loudspeaker, including ours. I believe we were the first to measure them and I've been quite taken with the design since -- in fact, so much so that we flew to The Netherlands in December to shoot a video there. We just published it today. Might give you even more insight into this unique company. Enjoy!

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[thewas]

I'm just not convinced that any amount of DSP can give me the same sort of sound as a 15 inch woofer can.

I don't think anyone claimed such a thing??
What the 8c can do which a single woofer cannot is get rid of the some nasty SBIR dips in your listening position, I had the luck to listen and measure them at a friend, really nice speakers but of course also nothing "out of this world" compared to other good monitors.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

I still want to hear these speakers... I'm just not convinced that any amount of DSP can give me the same sort of sound as a 15 inch woofer can. And I am not motivated enough to travel to Quebec to audition them. No dealers for these speakers in the Toronto area which is a shame.

What do you mean by "same sort of sound"? What does a 15" woofer sound like?

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Some have...

I find it odd that many people make claims such as the 15" driver that have little to do with anything. The point is that the 8c has incredibly deep bass for its cabinet size. Active allows designers to break some rules. That's what matters the most. With that in mind, people should just listen to it and make their judgement on what they're hearing, not what some other driver may or may not do.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[Jon AA]

Good to see you here, Doug. Soundstage! has been a valuable repository of measurements for we speaker geeks for a long time.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

I do not have any preconceived notions about this speaker. I am not attacking it nor discounting the merits of things it does well. You do not have to sell me on it. I have been very keen on acquiring a pair as part of a major setup change for my bedroom setup ever since I read Kal Rubinson's review for them in Stereophile last year. I am frustrated I have not had a chance to audition it in the last few years.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Good to see you here, Doug. Soundstage! has been a valuable repository of measurements for we speaker geeks for a long time.

Glad to hear it. We try.

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[BDWoody]

I find it odd that many people make claims such as the 15" driver that have little to do with anything.

Except maybe to them, in their application.

 

[Matias]

Does anyone know more about the amplifiers in the 8c? Class D, 3 of them per channel, active cooling when needed, ok. But is it NCore, Pascal, ICEpower, or in house developed?

Edit: found it in the 6moons review. They use Pascal S-PRO2 modules. And DAC is a TI PCM4104 running 48kHz.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Pascal. No idea which series.

 

[Deleted member 14468]

Interpreting might be a bit grand for what I was doing, I was really just observing how different they were. If the predicted in room response was the same between 2 different speakers, but they got there in different ways, would they sound the same size?

If I understand you correctly, what you're saying is if they both sum the same at the listening position, would they sound the same even if their on- and off-axis responses differed? If that is correct, to me the answer is "no."

Doug Schneider
SoundStage!

 

[Matias]

@napilopez review, very nice.

https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020...eakers-with-the-best-bass-ive-ever-heard/amp/

 

[napilopez]

Thank you! It is very hard to toe the line between a subjective review for the masses and objective impressions for the data lovers - especially when you don't even write for an audio-specific site - so this particular review took several rewrites(it was originally a good 1000 words longer!). Hopefully there's enough useful there for a wide audience.

 

[Matias]

Yes, I felt a nice balance of "CNET style" explanation while also adding some advanced concepts and measurements. Congrats, imo, very nicely written.

 

[napilopez]

In case anyone is interested in what the individual drivers are doing, had some leftover data (not level matched):

Also kind of interesting to see how the response changes with distance - you can see the waveguide at work. Driver integration already looks good at just 1 foot so no concerns about nearfield listening.

 

[Soniclife]

In case anyone is interested in what the individual drivers are doing, had some leftover data (not level matched):
View attachment 57340

Also kind of interesting to see how the response changes with distance - you can see the waveguide at work. Driver integration already looks good at just 1 foot so no concerns about nearfield listening.

View attachment 57341

Do the speakers allow you to turn off the other drivers to do these measurements?

 

[napilopez]

Do the speakers allow you to turn off the other drivers to do these measurements?

No, but for the nearfield measurements, the relative volume of the measured driver is far higher than the other ones so as to make their impact minimal.

 

[Soniclife]

No, but for the nearfield measurements, the relative volume of the measured driver is far higher than the other ones so as to make their impact minimal.

That explains the weird roll off behaviour after the units have largely rolled off.

 

[napilopez]

I learned yesterday that D&D has actually just started selling a 'Studio' version of the 8c, or is planning to soon. It won't support Roon/Streaming and abandons real oak wood for MDF, but adds M10 flypoints for more mounting options.

Most importantly, it's a fair bit cheaper, at $9750 a pair instead of $12,500.

Unsurprisingly, it just comes in black:

D&D says it should be acoustically identical. Makes it a fair bit more competitive price-wise and gets under that $10K mental barrier.