Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review

[Dimitri]

Klipsch "ain't" into flat response curves. Not their goal.

It's "happy face EQ" out of the box. Litteraly

 

[thewas]

Yah one of the forum members reviewed the active BW DUO and the measurements kinda were crap. All the DSP available and they still don't go for flat. They have a whole other thing going. Not sure what their intent is but is something...

Its their current voicing with gives their typical euphonic B&W sound signature with a presence dip and "airy" upper treble.

 

[BYRTT]

If those graphs are accurate, they just clearly indicate that the crossover is badly designed. It's nothing new. It's a fact that many speaker manufacturers don't have the qualified personnel to design smooth passive crossovers. The curves clearly show that the woofer response start to slope down at a too low frequency, whereas the tweeter's knee frequency is too high, so their responses fail to properly cross at a specified frequency.

Honestly it has been said here already - even by me. I really, really think this is by design. I was into DIY. Free software exists, cheap measuring tools and enough help from just the motley crew at parts express to make a better design in terms of flat response. I guarantee you I could in one day. There is no way Klipsch doesn't have access to more powerful tools. They want this response - all of it. It is selling very, very, very well.
And best of all it sounds different in listening rooms. Lots of systems sound the same - these stand out for good bad they stand out and some people will be into that fact alone.
Klipsch "ain't" into flat response curves. Not their goal.

Should i take on my gossip hat reason could be as simple that Klipsch is all about efficiency and within using a specific size of tweeter/woofer a hole in XO region slope or not thats it but overall good efficiency within used transducers and lets hope it never has to look into any nasty Klippel scanners

 

[Verdinut]

Should i take on my gossip hat reason could be as simple that Klipsch is all about efficiency and within using a specific size of tweeter/woofer a hole in XO region slope or not thats it but overall good efficiency within used transducers and lets hope it never has to look into any nasty Klippel scanners

I'm sure Paul Klipsch would turn in his grave knowing what's happening to his brand name line of products. The same would happen with Peter Walker, founder of Quad, John Bowers of Bowers & Wilkins and several others.

 

[BYRTT]

These 3 simple PEQ filters seem to flatten LW almost perfectly and they don't affect LF response at all. Can you plz try them with your simulation?...

Looks pretty good ...

 

[QMuse]

Looks pretty good ...
View attachment 55374

Wow - you really are a 3D graph wizzard!

With just a little EQ magic a little ugly duck has tranformed to a beautifull swan.

 

[richard12511]

I think this highlights an interesting case where, once EQ comes in to the equation, the speaker actually ends up being better than quite a few speakers that measure better pre-eq. Does that make it a better speaker? I'm not sure how I feel on that. As someone who uses Dirac Live, the answer for me - personally - probably should be yes, but I still don't really like that answer for some reason.

I definitely agree with reviewing it "as is", though, as Amir did.

 

[QMuse]

I think this highlights an interesting case where, once EQ comes in to the equation, the speaker actually ends up being better than quite a few speakers that measure better pre-eq. Does that make it a better speaker? I'm not sure how I feel on that. As someone who uses Dirac Live, the answer for me - personally - probably should be yes, but I still don't really like that answer for some reason.

I definitely agree with reviewing it "as is", though, as Amir did.

Let's re-post what Amir's listening impressions after EQ:

"The yellow filter above fixing the hole was stunning! It transformed the speaker into a completely different device. Back was the detail, and beautiful vocals. Our hearing is the most sensitive in 2 to 5 kHz so you don't want a speaker pull down that area or you lose detail."


Bottom line is this: as long as DI curves are smooth EQ can make speaker to sound really good. It should also be noted that rise in distortion up to 2% in the 400-1500 Hz region is mostly driven by 2nd harmonic so it will not sound nearly as offending as it looks on the graph.

IMO the answer to your question is: yes, in this case EQ does make this Klipsch a far better speaker, and if you would recalculate score it would be very much obvious as it was obvious from listening test.

 

[BYRTT]

I think this highlights an interesting case where, once EQ comes in to the equation, the speaker actually ends up being better than quite a few speakers that measure better pre-eq. Does that make it a better speaker? I'm not sure how I feel on that. As someone who uses Dirac Live, the answer for me - personally - probably should be yes, but I still don't really like that answer for some reason.

I definitely agree with reviewing it "as is", though, as Amir did.

Agree out of box is the basis for review and preference score, then its up to users for the rest how they live with and handle their toys, that said for this particular model there could be a restriction for how much more boost that tweeter would like running system at full throttle, what i mean is say ab fabric with a relative low XO point around 1,7kHz area that small diameter tweeter could be close to its full stroke when system run full throttle.

 

[QMuse]

Agree out of box is the basis for review and preference score, then its up to users for the rest how they live with and handle their toys, that said for this particular model there could be a restriction for how much more boost that tweeter would like running system at full throttle, what i mean is say ab fabric with a relative low XO point around 1,7kHz area that small diameter tweeter could be close to its full stroke when system run full throttle.

True about the tweeter. Although distortion graph looks pretty calm after 1700 Hz. Also, filter boosts response for 4.5dB at 1840Hz but it has no effect north of 3000 Hz after which HF response is actually lowered by broad filter at 9000 Hz.

 

[Bjorn]

The "horn" is actually not a horn but a waveguide that is doing its job to provide uniform off-axis response allowing one to EQ the mid-range dip.

A waveguide is a type of horn FIY.

 

[QMuse]

A waveguide is a type of horn FIY.

The term 'horn' is used when you are talking about a system where the throat of the horn is much smaller than the surface of the diaphragm and the space between the diaphragm and the horn throat is known as the compression chamber.

The acoustic impedance of the small horn throat is very high and will extract extreme levels of acoustic power from the diaphragm but at the cost of high distortion due to the extreme spl in the compression chamber and the fact that the compliance of air becomes increasingly non-linear at extreme spl.



The term waveguide is used when you are talking about a system where the horn throat is similar in size to the surface area of the diaphragm and the diaphragm radiates directly into the throat of the horn without a compression chamber.

The increase in acoustic impedance is moderate as is the increase in spl at the diaphragm and you will achieve lower distortion vs. the compression chamber / horn system or even just the diaphram without the waveguide due to the reduced drive level to achieve target spl and reduced excursion of the diaphragm.

 

[maty]

If the speaker has excellent directivity then equalization will come in handy. It is evident to me that the above is much more important than a very flat frequency response on the axis, since except for studio monitors very few have the speakers facing the listener.

In other words, the frequency response on the axis must be reasonably flat, with small oscillations.

 

[Bjorn]

The term 'horn' is used when you are talking about a system where the throat of the horn is much smaller than the surface of the diaphram and the space between the diaphram and the horn throat is known as the compression chamber.

The acoustic impedance of the small horn throat is very high and will extract extreme levels of acoustic power from the diaphram but at the cost of high distortion due to the extreme spl in the compression chamber and the fact that the compliance of air becomes increasingly non-linear at extreme spl.



The term waveguide is used when you are talking about a system where the horn throat is similar in size to the surface area of the diaphram and the diaphram radiates directly into the throat of the horn without a compression chamber.

The increase in acoustic impedance is moderate as is the increase in spl at the diaphram and you will achieve lower distortion vs. the compression chamber / horn system or even just the diaphram without the waveguide due to the reduced drive level to achieve target spl and reduced excursion of the diaphram.

A waveguide has always by the older horns designers been considered a type of horn, which makes perfectly sense. In essense it's a short horn with less increase in impedance vs longer horns as you point out. Personally I don't like changing original terms to something else. It's still a horn.

 

[QMuse]

A waveguide has always by the older horns designers been considered a type of horn, which makes perfectly sense. In essense it's a short horn with less increase in impedance vs longer horns as you point out. Personally I don't like changing original terms to something else. It's still a horn.

IMO it is not. Horn designs have compression chamber and the idea behind was to boost SPL. Waveguides don't have compression chamber and the idea behind is to control directivity etc.

 

[LTig]

IMO it is not. Horn designs have comrpession chamber and the idea behind was to use boost SPL. Waveguides don't have compression chamber and the idea behind is to control directivity etc.

I'd like to disagree. A horn is a horn regardless whether you feed it with a compression driver or a normal one. The final design of the horn depends on what the requests are. Directivity and increase of sensitivity are typical targets.

The CD horns developed by JBL in the 80ies or 90ties offer constant directivity (waveguide nature) but where fed by compression drivers (sensitivity target). According to your criteria they would fit both, being a horn and a waveguide, which makes no sense IMHO.

 

[tuga]

What is a Waveguide? - Earl Geddes

This question comes up so often that I wanted to put down the history of this term as applied to acoustics. I will attempt to answer the following questions:

1. Does a waveguide differ from a horn and if so, how? 

2. Where did the term come from and hasn’t it already been defined? 


http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/What is a Waveguide.pdf

 

[QMuse]

I'd like to disagree. A horn is a horn regardless whether you feed it with a compression driver or a normal one. The final design of the horn depends on what the requests are. Directivity and increase of sensitivity are typical targets.

The CD horns developed by JBL in the 80ies or 90ties offer constant directivity (waveguide nature) but where fed by compression drivers (sensitivity target). According to your criteria they would fit both, being a horn and a waveguide, which makes no sense IMHO.

So when a shallow waveguide is attached to a dome tweeter would you also call it a horn?

Is this a twin-horn design?

 

[q3cpma]

The good ol' horn vs waveguide debate. Personally, I agree with Geddes on that point: horns are made with impedance/sensitivity in mind (and equations) while waveguides are about controlling directivity with minimal diffraction.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Some measurements for the center channel RP-250C which should be VERY similar to RP-500C which is the newer version being sold atm. While there is 600C to match, some people will still pick the smaller one. It`s the same problems we typically see with 2-way horizontal center channels. Clearly it measures better vertically, but that won´t really help in typical lounge with tv.
https://community.klipsch.com/index...-centre-channel-speaker-rp-250c-measurements/

PS. I haven`t shared Amirs review at Klipsch forum yet. If someone is brave enough.. Usually it leads to "there must be something wrong about the data.." and bashing.