SONOS Drops Support for Older Devices

[Frank Dernie]

I suppose this was inevitable as soon as "computer" inveigled its way into "audio system".
The whole computer business relies on making money by obsoleting perfectly functional hardware by adding, frequently pointless, bloatware and has for decades.
The (expensive) 40Mb hard drive on my first computer wasn't big enough to store a single sheet of paper with nothing on it in today's Word format but worked fine for all my office tasks, word processing and spreadsheets. OK no use for video or photography but as a typewriter emulator and doing hard sums it was fine.
I'm glad I don't use file based music much, smug even

 

[DuxServit]

I don’t think the government (any government) can force vendors of any technology to keep updating firmware/software or to halt development of new hardware.

The best solution is for vendors to state upfront the number of “support” years or warranty years. Just like some cars have 50K miles transmission warranty.

Then it is up to the buyer to make an informed decision.

 

[sergeauckland]

I don’t think the government (any government) can force vendors of any technology to keep updating firmware/software or to halt development of new hardware.

The best solution is for vendors to state upfront the number of “support” years or warranty years. Just like some cars have 50K miles transmission warranty.

Then it is up to the buyer to make an informed decision.

Warranty and support are really two different things. I don't expect any car (or electronics) to have a 10 year warranty, but I do expect spare parts or software support to continue for at least 10 years, 20 better still.

Governments can force that by regulation, so as to avoid waste, unnecessary landfill and general obsolescence. The sad fact of life today is that companies rely on obsolescence to keep selling stuff, whether it's fashion...you can't wear a skirt that length, it's soooo last year.....or a new software upgrade that bricks existing hardware.

50 years ago there was no software to obsolete, once something was made it worked until it wore out, and when it did, it was often possible to repair it, albeit not always economically viable, but possible. We no longer have that, hardware is sold, but it's not ours, we just effectively buy a license to use it until the manufacturer chooses to withdraw that license.

It just seems so wrong to me to force waste.

S

 

[Soniclife]

Warranty and support are really two different things. I don't expect any car (or electronics) to have a 10 year warranty, but I do expect spare parts or software support to continue for at least 10 years, 20 better still.

I'd also like to see any company going bust to be forced to open source all their software, so even if they cannot support anymore others could step in.

 

[Soniclife]

Unfortunately once the Government gets involved, whatever they decide tends to apply to everyone, not just the ones who think what was enacted was a good idea.

Can't you make an informed choice on your own?

Without regulation I don't think normal people are in a position to make informed decisions about such stuff. I've lost count of the number of Android phone makers who promise updates for several years and then abandon their promise when they prefer not to anymore.

 

[SIY]

Without regulation I don't think normal people are in a position to make informed decisions about such stuff. I've lost count of the number of Android phone makers who promise updates for several years and then abandon their promise when they prefer not to anymore.

No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?

 

[RayDunzl]

I've lost count of the number of Android phone makers who promise updates for several years and then abandon their promise when they prefer not to anymore

Now you're informed.

---

https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/

 

[DonH56]

People on the SONOS forums are throwing around "bricked" but that is not what is really going to happen, at least not immediately. You will lose the ability to update/upgrade your system SW and that has some implications that are troubling:

1. Many folk, including me, have lost considerable functionality when an upgrade failed. This includes loss of library functions like adding songs or searching. Hopefully just glitches, but the sort of thing that makes people very nervous about what some future update might do to really brick the older components. In the past some components became worthless until they were updated with the latest SW/FW. That is driving the fear that some future update will quietly brick their old products.
2. If you add a new device, you will not be able to access any features that require new SW. ANY legacy device in the system means none can be upgraded. This is the part many, myself included, find troubling and seems to be something SONOS would worry about (or not). If I want buy a new speaker with some desirable new feature, I cannot use it until I remove or upgrade all older devices on the network.
3. They have not kept the PC SW updated so almost all key system set-up functions require your phone. They have yet to answer how that will be handled; currently, the phone is updated independently, so there is the risk of an auto-update on your phone making it unusable with your system. So far they have said to disable auto-updates on phones; the auto-update will not work (per them) on legacy devices so it is just the phone (and presumably PCs) that you need to watch. For me and others that is an issue when e.g. my son's phone updates while he is away and then he can't access the system when he comes home to visit. As an aside I do not normally use my phone for Internet so had to jump through a lot of hoops last time I added a new SONOS device to get my phone up to speed (set up accounts, browsers, and such). Dinosaur, yeah, but apparently so are a lot of other SONOS users.
4. Unrelated (or quasi-related) is that their trade-up program automatically bricks your old component 21 days after registering the new product. No handing down old speakers to family members, or using them in another room, instead you must send them back to SONOS to be recycled.
5. Again quasi-related are folk who have a number of components that need to be upgraded and the cost is considerable even with a 30% discount. You must upgrade all older components or no system updates for you. People like me needing to update a number of components are looking at an unexpected multi-thousand dollar investment to stay current. And I have to do it by May, not trickle them in as they fail.

I am kinda' (more like REALLY) hoping they can (re)structure the SW so that older components can stay in the network without new features but still functional.

 

[Soniclife]

Now you're informed.

---

https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/

No.1 Tizen. That's funny, that's been effectively abandoned before it was launched. Same goes for the rest of the list.

 

[Soniclife]

Unrelated (or quasi-related) is that their trade-up program automatically bricks your old component 21 days after registering the new product. No handing down old speakers to family members, or using them in another room, instead you must send them back to SONOS to be recycled.

Do they have a line in that is usable? Is it possible to get them off the network to prevent the brick instruction?

 

[DonH56]

Do they have a line in that is usable? Is it possible to get them off the network to prevent the brick instruction?

Some do, some don't... The smaller speakers do not. They also have devices to connect a stereo system to the system; a SONOS:Connect has RCA and digital (optical/coax) outputs.

 

[Willem]

I suppose that to decide if this is a fair decision or not, we need to know two things that we don't yet know. First, what is the real technology change that they are planning and does that make this decision inevitable? Second, is it really impossible to construct a workable transition to maintain the functionality of existing and only marginally old gear, even if without the new functionality?
Personaly I think an assumption of business fairness presupposes that one can continue to use existing gear longer than just a few years. In fact, I think it also makes good businiss sense. I am reminded of the efforts camera companies like Nikon or Leica made to maintain compatibility of their lenses. If I see companies ignoring this, I avoid them. So I think this may well be a very bad business decision in the long term.
I also think the state has a role in this. With such proprietary technologies companies have effectively created what amounts to a natural monopoly. Governments in both the US and EU have traditionally felt that it is their duty to regulate monopolies, and more generally to ensure fairness in the market. I am a great fan of the market, and competitive markets in particular, but at times it needs a little help to function properly.
The best example of the benefits of open system technology is IBM's PC platform. Modern economic growth owes it a lot.

 

[RickSanchez]

... You will lose the ability to update/upgrade your system SW and that has some implications that are troubling:

...

2. If you add a new device, you will not be able to access any features that require new SW. ANY legacy device in the system means none can be upgraded. This is the part many, myself included, find troubling and seems to be something SONOS would worry about (or not). If I want buy a new speaker with some desirable new feature, I cannot use it until I remove or upgrade all older devices on the network.

Yeah, #2 is really bad. Regardless of motivation / technical requirements SONOS is forcing their customers to transition. What you would hope to see is a transition plan that allows their customers to make this move over some period of time as customers’ needs dictate. (e.g., budget.) So new devices in the chain should mean full functionality for those devices, while older devices would lack functionality and eventually may not even be recognized as part of the system.

But it sounds like SONOS has gone the route where an old device in the chain handicaps a new device. Definitely a far cry from a customer-friendly approach.

 

[DonH56]

They sent an apology email today backtracking and explaining they are working on a solution to allow older devices to operate separately. Cannot believe they thought it was a good idea to announce it as they did...

​

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:​

​

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work just as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.​

​

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.​

​

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.​

​

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn't exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.​

​

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.​

Sincerely,​

Patrick​

​

Patrick Spence​

CEO, Sonos​

 

[RickSanchez]

Glad to hear it. I'm sure they've lost some trust with their customers but sounds like they're taking a much better path.

 

[pjug]

They sent an apology email today backtracking and explaining they are working on a solution to allow older devices to operate separately. Cannot believe they thought it was a good idea to announce it as they did...

​

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:​

​

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work just as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.​

​

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.​

​

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.​

​

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn't exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.​

​

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.​

Sincerely,​

Patrick​

​

Patrick Spence​

CEO, Sonos​

This is a much better way of saying what they are doing, but isn't all that what they were already doing? I thought they put out the bit about working on a way to split the system when they first announced all this. But at least now they come off as caring about the customers.

 

[DonH56]

This is a much better way of saying what they are doing, but isn't all that what they were already doing? I thought they put out the bit about working on a way to split the system when they first announced all this. But at least now they come off as caring about the customers.

Mostly yes, just a re-phrased way of saying it, but the work on splitting the system is new. That is something a lot of us have said they could/should do but this is the first SONOS has said they would.

Oh, and no change to the trade-up program, which I and others feel is also a mistake as it is today.

We'll see - Don

 

[pjug]

Mostly yes, just a re-phrased way of saying it, but the work on splitting the system is new. That is something a lot of us have said they could/should do but this is the first SONOS has said they would.

Oh, and no change to the trade-up program, which I and others feel is also a mistake as it is today.

We'll see - Don

It sounds like they were working on the split system idea from the get-go. They just made a big mistake by burying that part in their FAQ instead of putting that info out front and center: https://arstechnica.com/information...art-speakers-software-support-spurring-storm/

 

[DonH56]

They just added that paragraph... Wasn't there a couple of days ago when I started digging after getting the email.

 

[Pluto]

Thought you might be interested that this business made the national BBC late afternoon current affairs programme, PM. It takes the form of an interview with someone from some computer rag or other who says, basically, "tough, that's the future".

But the fact that this made a serious national news show, in itself says something.

Sorry about the ZIP file but that's the only way I could upload the interview.