Why are we here?

[Ron Texas]

I ask the question in the broadest sense, looking for an answer that goes beyond the specific information available in this excellent forum. In other words, how did the quality of music playback become so important to us? Or, is it just gear acquisition syndrome?

Today I attended the Houston Ferrari Festival. There was a huge collection of stunning cars there including a few La Ferrari's which sold new for $3 million. I spoke to the owner of one. He was a large man in his late 40's or early 50's. I have no idea where his money came from. In the conversation he said there was no such thing as a typical Ferrari owner. I can tell you a 10 year old one can be had for $150,000. They don't go down in value, and go up a little each year, unless there is a huge recession.

Then I wandered into a store where a pair of Wilson Alexx speakers were set up with a D'Augistino integrated amp. There was also some kind of streamer and what looked like a power conditioner on the equipment rack. Speaker wires were thicker than a garden hose and had strange looking boxes in the middle. A salesman said the setup was $250,000. Non US residents should take note there would be an 8.25% sales tax added to that lofty sum. I think the setup was temporary because this outfit has a store about 2 miles away and someone in the back was selling coffee for $5 a cup.

They were playing some electronic dance music. It might have been the recording, but I wasn't impressed.

Sometimes I can sit in front of my LS50's and be transported. Some people say they get goose bumps. That's not enough. I want to be sent somewhere where the music is being made. By standards around here my system is imperfect. My Crown XLS 1502 has a SINAD of a measly 76 and I only have one sub, not two. Lord only knows what else someone might thing is wrong with it as there are some around here who love to hate the LS50's.

So I ponder, how would someone become so obsessed with gear as to go out and spent $250k on an audio system which did nothing for me when for a couple of bucks more you can have a late model Ferrari. Even with traffic and speed traps it's good for more jollies. My 2017 Camaro SS is as fast as a 10 year old Ferrari and I don't have much money tied up in it. If it breaks, it will not cost a fortune to fix. I can even throw some junk in the back seat and trunk and go somewhere. Believe me, it's great for jollies. Sorry about that, Gretta.

I wandered in here because I was tired of nonsense discussions in other forums. Some important concepts like room EQ and house curves were introduced to me here. Many discussions go over my head. The quest for ever higher SINAD seems meaningless to me when one realizes in their best range the best speakers have .1% distortion and background noise varies from annoying to disastrous. That's just my thing. What's yours?

 

[garbulky]

I wandered in here because I'd seen very few measurements. The Schiit controversy was how I found out about this place. Over the years I realized the reason companies don't show their measurements is not because they forgot. It's because it's not to their advantage. I also was interested in finding out about things like build quality and whether there were any value "gems" out there. I was also hoping to find out more about psychoacoustics.

If you are asking why do I care about audio quality:
I regard audio as a remarkably cheap way to experience events even ones that happened a long time ago. The ability to feel inside the recording space is something that has always drawn me in to it. Also I have always looked for audio that can fool me in to thinking that real acoustic instruments are being played in front of me.

 

[RayDunzl]

Why am I here?

Cars don't thrill me. My new Camry reported 48mpg on the freeway yesterday. At 7,100 miles it has yet to fall below the full mark on the dipstick.

My mostly antique audio gear still satisfies. It's not green, but it ended up paying for itself.

Some of the posts here amuse me.

Sometimes I'll post something I find amusing. I try not to pick a fight or be too judgemental.

I'm not audio shopping, but someday all my stuff will suffer molecular discombobulation, and if it occurs to it before it occurs to me, I might replace the deflicted parts and pieces with something more modern, at which point I'll get some "safe choice" from the stuff making the rounds here.

Why am I here?

Let me quote Greggery Peccary:

GREGGERY:
Life is so much better
When there's some little something to do!

NARRATOR:
Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you, hmm?

 

[Ron Texas]

@garbulky The Schitt controversy is definitely one of the high points around here.
@RayDunzl Anyone with cheesebox subs is a true adventurer.

 

[Cahudson42]

Well, this site was absolutely invaluable in my conversion from stereo speaker - 'hifi' (wife - "turn down that noise!") to a reasonable cost personal headphone system (LG V20, impedance spoofer, Liquid Spark, HE400i).

Facts, measurements. No 'alternatively reality'. No bias

I used to own a Porsche 928. Nice - except when the timing belt slipped and wiped out the interference engine. Stupidity in design. Had I known enough on the topic, I would have known better. Eventually, I did. My 1998 Lincoln Mark VIII was a far better design. Chain cam drive. Non -interference. (Few believed me however)

The difference was education on the topic - as ASR does here.

 

[garbulky]

Well, this site was absolutely invaluable in my conversion from stereo speaker - 'hifi' (wife - "turn down that noise!") to a reasonable cost personal headphone system (LG V20, impedance spoofer, Liquid Spark, HE400i).

Facts, measurements. No 'alternatively reality'. No bias

I used to own a Porsche 928. Nice - except when the timing belt slipped and wiped out the interference engine. Stupidity in design. Had I known enough on the topic, I would have known better. Eventually, I did. My 1998 Lincoln Mark VIII was a far better design. Chain cam drive. Non -interference. (Few believed me however)

The difference was education on the topic - as ASR does here.

Loved my town car. Still miss it.

 

[JakeLeCat]

I found somewhere that agrees proof is better than hyperbole.. A rare thing in the quest for fidelity

 

[Sal1950]

Why am I here.
1. I've enjoyed music for as long as I can remember. I was probably around 10 when I noticed that some sources sounded better than others, that began my path to better gear. I enjoy music and the better it sounds the more I enjoy it.
2. It was probably around 1980-90s that I realized that the subjective world and it's magazines were FOS, that Peter Aczel was right on and much of the high end world was just trying to fleece my wallet.
3. As I became more of a hard core objectivist I felt more and more displaced in the majority of high fidelity media. Just after Amir started ASR one of my friends @Blumlein 88 pointed me here and the rest is history.
4. I have little real tech knowledge but enjoy spending time and learning from the people here that have the know-all to help me learn.

 

[VMAT4]

I got started in this hobby when I was about 14 or 15. I used the money I earned from delivering newspapers (I was a paperboy) to buy a
Yamaha CR 420 receiver, a JVC QLF 4 turntable, a pair of Audio Technica electret headphones, and, later, a pair of Epicure Ten speakers. Measurable performance was important then. Advertisements for gear stated THD distortion and signal to noise ratio for power amps, preamps, integrated amps, and receivers. Wow and flutter and rumble were stated for turntables in ads and so on. One had benchmarks to go by when buying equipment.

I stumbled across this site. But, when I noticed in the equipment reviews that some pieces didn't live up to claimed performance, I stuck around.

Now I notice few manufacturers make any performance claims.

It's incredible what has happened to the hobby since, say 1978. Monster Cable may be out of business. This was/is the company that started the cable snake oil industry. But, people still sell exotic high priced cables to do what zip cord had done successfully for at least the first two and a half decades of HiFi. Now, many people who have taken college level physics buy into cables. Despite having paid a steep fee to learn there is no science to support the claims of the cable industry or reviewers.

This forum seeks to reduce the dishonesty that has ruined an otherwise fun hobby. The same dishonesty that makes every audiophile look like a gullible, obsessed, and picky audiofool.

But to tell the truth I was hooked the first time I heard Magnepans in a showroom. I just want good sound within my means.

 

[Sal1950]

Loved my town car. Still miss it.

The tree huggers all but destroyed the big car market here in the US. All you can buy today are these fugly little 4 door Schitt boxes that all look the same.
But we fooled them, now we all got big pickup trucks and SUV's to be safe in. US 2018 sales were 5.3 million autos and 11.9 million light trucks. LOL

 

[North_Sky]

I'm here to learn what the audio measurements truly mean in real life...recording music reproduction. ...To advance my knowledge between the measured and the immeasurable.

 

[JakeLeCat]

This forum seeks to reduce the dishonesty that has ruined an otherwise fun hobby. The same dishonesty that makes every audiophile look like a gullible, obsessed, and picky audiofool.

But to tell the truth I was hooked the first time I heard Magnepans in a showroom. I just want good sound within my means.

I worked out early on that im not in the traditional target demographic when it comes to audiophile sales... LIke OP i also have a crown xls (and have heard a few scoffs in the past) and after the review of both the ddrc24 (my preamp) and xls1500 i think they both fared well in the grand scheme of things as far as pound to power ratio goes..
i think my setup would take a lot of money to be exceeded. I only wish i was better at woodwork as the DIY side of things appeals to my thrifty nature

but on the quoted point do planar speakers give the same wow factor as planar headphones? That was an eye opener to me as a fan of fast electronic music..

 

[Tom C]

I ask the question in the broadest sense, looking for an answer that goes beyond the specific information available in this excellent forum. In other words, how did the quality of music playback become so important to us? Or, is it just gear acquisition syndrome?

Today I attended the Houston Ferrari Festival. There was a huge collection of stunning cars there including a few La Ferrari's which sold new for $3 million. I spoke to the owner of one. He was a large man in his late 40's or early 50's. I have no idea where his money came from. In the conversation he said there was no such thing as a typical Ferrari owner. I can tell you a 10 year old one can be had for $150,000. They don't go down in value, and go up a little each year, unless there is a huge recession.

Then I wandered into a store where a pair of Wilson Alexx speakers were set up with a D'Augistino integrated amp. There was also some kind of streamer and what looked like a power conditioner on the equipment rack. Speaker wires were thicker than a garden hose and had strange looking boxes in the middle. A salesman said the setup was $250,000. Non US residents should take note there would be an 8.25% sales tax added to that lofty sum. I think the setup was temporary because this outfit has a store about 2 miles away and someone in the back was selling coffee for $5 a cup.

They were playing some electronic dance music. It might have been the recording, but I wasn't impressed.

Sometimes I can sit in front of my LS50's and be transported. Some people say they get goose bumps. That's not enough. I want to be sent somewhere where the music is being made. By standards around here my system is imperfect. My Crown XLS 1502 has a SINAD of a measly 76 and I only have one sub, not two. Lord only knows what else someone might thing is wrong with it as there are some around here who love to hate the LS50's.

So I ponder, how would someone become so obsessed with gear as to go out and spent $250k on an audio system which did nothing for me when for a couple of bucks more you can have a late model Ferrari. Even with traffic and speed traps it's good for more jollies. My 2017 Camaro SS is as fast as a 10 year old Ferrari and I don't have much money tied up in it. If it breaks, it will not cost a fortune to fix. I can even throw some junk in the back seat and trunk and go somewhere. Believe me, it's great for jollies. Sorry about that, Gretta.

I wandered in here because I was tired of nonsense discussions in other forums. Some important concepts like room EQ and house curves were introduced to me here. Many discussions go over my head. The quest for ever higher SINAD seems meaningless to me when one realizes in their best range the best speakers have .1% distortion and background noise varies from annoying to disastrous. That's just my thing. What's yours?

What always got me is that the cost and complexity of brining something like a Ferrari to market is staggering compared to a speaker set. I used to be a Ford finance guy. I worked in the comptroller’s office. There is no way you could spend even a sizable fraction of what it takes for tooling for a car, let alone the materials, all the engineers, assemblers, etc. And in GM’s case, at union rates. Not to mention the boat ride for a 3000+ lb vehicle.

 

[raif71]

I'm here to get sound advice on audio gears, maximizing in audio pleasure and minimizing as much as possible on money spending. Other than that, I intend to understand the graphs that are shown by the measurements reviews column but I admit, it is slow. I'm and EE grad but during my U days, signals and systems is one of my weakest subjects. I was already an avid music enthusiast back then and wished that I could've made a connection between my hobby and the measurement Amir is doing now.

 

[gene_stl]

I came here because people get blasted if they refer to choclatey bass, limpid mid range and strident highs. (highs are by def strident)

I have been in the hobby about 52 years which is long enough that I remember before the bullshit artists and grifters took over completely.

I just started a thread about a retail $89 ikea blue tooth self powered, bi amped speaker. There is a link in which a guy deconstructs one and shows what's in it. this gives a baseline of what this stuff is actually worth. Therefore in my not terribly humble opinion anyone who buys the countless overpriced gear needs to have their heads examined.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ea-eneby-biamped-blue-tooth-speaker-89.10183/
The guy that told me about them said he listened to them at length at Ikea and thought they sounded great. He is a recording engineer with young ears.


I love it that Amir "pulls down the pants" of overpriced gear that is fraudulent.

 

[majingotan]

I don't know how many here are experts about electronics, performance graphs, etc., but I'm definitely just an ordinary dude learning these things so that I can make a better purchase decisions down the road. Also, it's not just raw performance but its QC standards from teardown reviews as well.

The other side of me want "exotic/status symbol (in Philippines BTW)" that's why I own abysmal performing Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC and Schiit Saga RCA 5692 Red Base tube preamp.

 

[Tks]

Because I knew nothing about audio before I found a place that didn't confuse me. That place being here.

Off the bat when I got into audio I had no idea what people were talking about when they spoke about "auditory fluidity, and soundstage width, sparkly engaging musicality, sound alacrity, emotional profundity" and worthless other synonyms. I tried looking for a place that could at least understand how actual engineers built audio products. And it sure as shit wasn't going to be the same people that were saying "music that hugs you and never lets go for the entire ride".

Also, really humbling to hear some of the smart people here talk. Some truly exceptional people.

 

[majingotan]

Off the bat when I got into audio I had no idea what people were talking about when they spoke about "auditory fluidity, and soundstage width, sparkly engaging musicality, sound alacrity, emotional profundity" and worthless other synonyms. I tried looking for a place that could at least understand how actual engineers built audio products. And it sure as shit wasn't going to be the same people that were saying "music that hugs you and never lets go for the entire ride".

What they don't realize is that all that wonderful adjectives "auditory fluidity, and soundstage width, sparkly engaging musicality, sound alacrity, emotional profundity" can be SERIOUSLY experienced from just grooving along from listening to FM radio. If all stars are aligned (your mood, your favorite music, your favorite weather, etc. etc. are all aligned), I bet 100% you'll experience all that mumbo jumbo with a frigging FM radio blasting on your boom box

 

[mikewxyz]

The tree huggers all but destroyed the big car market here in the US. All you can buy today are these fugly little 4 door Schitt boxes that all look the same.
But we fooled them, now we all got big pickup trucks and SUV's to be safe in. US 2018 sales were 5.3 million autos and 11.9 million light trucks. LOL

Sal: I think you got the supply/ demand thing backwards. The reason that there are fewer cars of any model to buy is that no one buys cars anymore. Therefore, the truck companies stopped making cars. People want trucks or SUV’s. The free market has adjusted.

 

[gene_stl]

If you are asking why do I care about audio quality:
I regard audio as a remarkably cheap way to experience events even ones that happened a long time ago. The ability to feel inside the recording space is something that has always drawn me in to it. Also I have always looked for audio that can fool me in to thinking that real acoustic instruments are being played in front of me.

I started building stereos so I could hear better what Eric Clapton was doing on the finger board. At that time (1966 -67) our striving was to extract all the info that was on an LP or perhaps a RTR tape or even over FM stereo. Nobody could have imagined that you would , in the future be able to listen to all the info that was on an analog master tape. But today you can listen to those great old three channel masters probably close to as good as they are on the tape. While that might not meet Mark Waldrep's stringent definition of high rez it does meet my definitition of exciting especially if that old master has a recording of an artist like Jascha Heifetz, or Gustav Leonhardt or any of a myriad of old and new artists. Right into your living room. If you happen to live in a place like St. Louis which is "out of the way" or "in the flyover" you can have performances in the comfort of your own listening room at your own convenience. One of the many things to be thankful for that you were born in the twentieth century as opposed to one of the bleak earlier ones.