Why are we here?

[Blumlein 88]

The new C8 Corvette, Awesome!
See the USA in Your Chevrolet

Remember seeing a theater at the original Six Flags over Georgia where they showed the Super Chevy Show. Various short films about the Chevy's. One featured the 1967 Corvette filmed by cameras mounted on what else, the new 1967 Camaro. In black and white film no less. My Dad's only comment after it was over was, "my 40 Ford coupe could smoke em both". And he wasn't making it up. It could have.

But I guess even Junior Johnson's supercharged moonshine hauling 40 Ford coupe would have trouble with the C8.

 

[napilopez]

I can't say I remember exactly what brought me here for the first time. I probably started lurking around when there was some of the inter-forum drama in the headphone world. But I stuck around because ASR looks for truth. The people here accept we are subject to bias, but seek the truth through data rather than unfounded consensus and hearsay. People here are willing to change strong beliefs when presented with facts and data. That's my type of crowd.

I started out the same as many younger audiophiles nowadays, obsessed with finding the best headphones I could afford and eventually making my way to speakers. It all comes back to the music for me, and I simply wanted to get the best illusion of live music I could have at home or on the go.

Then a few years ago, I started getting paid to review things. Though audio isn't my primary focus, as I write for a mainstream tech site, I do get to try out more audio gear than I ever had access to before. But I noticed early on that the more stuff I tested - from a purely subjective standpoint, with some sighted comparisons - the more I felt like there wasn't all that much of a correlation between price and performance. But I couldn't really explain why, and I still worried I was about how much I might be influenced by preconceptions and biases.

So I started to educate myself on acoustics to try and really understand why certain products sound good instead of only using the typical flowery audiophile language to describe what I think I hear. Much of what I learned started here on ASR; hundreds of forum posts, several AES papers, and a few books in, I think I'm better equipped to provide recommendations to a wider audience.

Though it takes some work upfront, the irony is that I actually find reviewing speakers and headphones easier and more fun than ever now that I do measurements. Where before I might've spent hours or days listening to the same few songs over and over again to try to capture the minutiae of the speaker's performance - "hmm, this speaker has a slightly crisper attack on the cymbal crash at 2:57 in that song" - now I don't waste my time. A few on and off-axis frequency plots tell me a lot more about a speaker than days of hyper-analytical listening ever did. Instead, I spend a few cumulative hours performing measurements, and the rest of my review period just enjoying the music and taking some listening notes along the way.

I'm still very much subject to my biases, and I still use flowery language sometimes because I do think it can be useful for describing some aspects of sound. Or maybe I just enjoy it. But at least I have some objective data to back up my impressions and which readers can interpret on their own should they want to.

I think my reviews are better now, and that's thanks to ASR. Now I hope to contribute to the wider community or data-friendly audiophiles by building on the relatively sparse set of available speaker measurements and highlighting good products at a variety of price points.

 

[gikigill]

I ask the question in the broadest sense, looking for an answer that goes beyond the specific information available in this excellent forum. In other words, how did the quality of music playback become so important to us? Or, is it just gear acquisition syndrome?

Today I attended the Houston Ferrari Festival. There was a huge collection of stunning cars there including a few La Ferrari's which sold new for $3 million. I spoke to the owner of one. He was a large man in his late 40's or early 50's. I have no idea where his money came from. In the conversation he said there was no such thing as a typical Ferrari owner. I can tell you a 10 year old one can be had for $150,000. They don't go down in value, and go up a little each year, unless there is a huge recession.

So I ponder, how would someone become so obsessed with gear as to go out and spent $250k on an audio system which did nothing for me when for a couple of bucks more you can have a late model Ferrari. Even with traffic and speed traps it's good for more jollies. My 2017 Camaro SS is as fast as a 10 year old Ferrari and I don't have much money tied up in it. If it breaks, it will not cost a fortune to fix. I can even throw some junk in the back seat and trunk and go somewhere. Believe me, it's great for jollies. Sorry about that, Gretta.

Italian cars have a magic, an almost telepathic ability to read your mind and the moment you turn the key, they push out feel good chemicals from their aircon vent to make you feel divine.

Owned an Alfa Romeo 166 GTA spec. GTA stand for Gran Turismo Alleggerita.

It was an absolute beauty to look at and in the words of John Keats. a thing of beauty is a joy forever.

It loved to rev and made music from its engine, one of the best and melodic tunes ever to originate from a car.
The venerable Busso Quad Cam 3.2 litre V6 with chromed intakes and it didn't need more, a top notch interior that made you feel special every single time you stepped in and no cupholders so USA was a no-go market. Seats provided by Momo/Ferrari and and a leather factory Momo steering wheel.

Step on the pedal and it shoots off with a roar, not overtly loud but musical and slightly angry and the steering and pedals can almost sense how much pressure you will apply and how much the steering will need to turn to complete your next maneuver.

It could turn philistines into suave men and as Jeremy Clarkson would say, BMWs are for alpha males, Alfas are for nice people.

They break, they complain, they whinge but you cannot dislike them. Their faults give them an almost human quality and my Alfa had many but it will always be the car that will be the most dear to me. I have had more powerful cars, bigger cars, more expensive cars but they lack the Alfa magic.

In my rare experience with a Lamborghini Diablo, they are not cars to drive in, they are about pantomime and drama, about sheer force and brutality and the very definition of insanity on wheels. They will handily kill you and you will be smiling in your death.

If you can, try an Alfa, you might fall in love with it. It gave birth to Ferrari after all so they might know a thing or two about building cars.

 

[DivineCurrent]

Hmm... why are we here? Getting quite philosophical in an audio science forum huh?

Jokes aside, I come from a musical background, and I play a few instruments along with singing. So naturally, my love for music is a factor of why I'm now obsessed with high quality audio equipment. This all started for me in 2011, when my dad gifted me the AKG K240 Studio headphones. I thought they were the best things ever, since before this I was using a cheap street style Sony MDR-G42LP. I caught the audio bug and quickly got obsessed with finding the best sounding gear for me. I also regularly used a Nakamichi CDP-2A player and TA-2A receiver from 1988 with my headphones. While they sounded good, I can't help but wonder how badly that receiver headphone out measures. (Maybe I'll send it to Amir to test!)
Although, one of the channels doesn't work until the receiver warms up for a few minutes.

Unfortunately, I later got sucked up in some ideas from Head-Fi that amps and DACs can drastically change/improve sound. But luckily I stumbled across the NwAvGuy blog, which set me in the right direction. I've always been a scientist at heart, so from then on I put lots of importance into objective measurements and data, looking for charts and frequency response graphs everywhere. I only discovered this forum recently, and I'm grateful I did. Years ago I actually considered buying an expensive Audio-GD product, and that would have been a huge mistake according to the measurements done on this site.

 

[Hipper]

I ask the question in the broadest sense, looking for an answer that goes beyond the specific information available in this excellent forum. In other words, how did the quality of music playback become so important to us? Or, is it just gear acquisition syndrome?

Today I attended the Houston Ferrari Festival. There was a huge collection of stunning cars there including a few La Ferrari's which sold new for $3 million. I spoke to the owner of one. He was a large man in his late 40's or early 50's. I have no idea where his money came from. In the conversation he said there was no such thing as a typical Ferrari owner. I can tell you a 10 year old one can be had for $150,000. They don't go down in value, and go up a little each year, unless there is a huge recession.

Then I wandered into a store where a pair of Wilson Alexx speakers were set up with a D'Augistino integrated amp. There was also some kind of streamer and what looked like a power conditioner on the equipment rack. Speaker wires were thicker than a garden hose and had strange looking boxes in the middle. A salesman said the setup was $250,000. Non US residents should take note there would be an 8.25% sales tax added to that lofty sum. I think the setup was temporary because this outfit has a store about 2 miles away and someone in the back was selling coffee for $5 a cup.

They were playing some electronic dance music. It might have been the recording, but I wasn't impressed.

Sometimes I can sit in front of my LS50's and be transported. Some people say they get goose bumps. That's not enough. I want to be sent somewhere where the music is being made. By standards around here my system is imperfect. My Crown XLS 1502 has a SINAD of a measly 76 and I only have one sub, not two. Lord only knows what else someone might thing is wrong with it as there are some around here who love to hate the LS50's.

So I ponder, how would someone become so obsessed with gear as to go out and spent $250k on an audio system which did nothing for me when for a couple of bucks more you can have a late model Ferrari. Even with traffic and speed traps it's good for more jollies. My 2017 Camaro SS is as fast as a 10 year old Ferrari and I don't have much money tied up in it. If it breaks, it will not cost a fortune to fix. I can even throw some junk in the back seat and trunk and go somewhere. Believe me, it's great for jollies. Sorry about that, Gretta.

I wandered in here because I was tired of nonsense discussions in other forums. Some important concepts like room EQ and house curves were introduced to me here. Many discussions go over my head. The quest for ever higher SINAD seems meaningless to me when one realizes in their best range the best speakers have .1% distortion and background noise varies from annoying to disastrous. That's just my thing. What's yours?

I would expect high priced anything accompanying the promotion of $3 million cars. It's another world from the one most of us inhabit. Not necessarily a better one.

I was listening to my gear today, 'only' about £30,000 worth, so a lot to me (I never bought a car so I'm probably 'quids in' as we in the UK say). As I was listening I was thinking how lucky I was to be enjoying what I'd bought and how I'd set it up. When I felt like it I could listen to parts of the music - bass or percussion say - and at other times I let it waft through me and my brain wonder wherever it will.

I came here to this site because I wanted further insight into how to get the best set up with what I've got and a better idea of what to look for if any of my gear broke or I felt like replacing it, which I hope is not anytime soon.

I've found that I'm looking at this site almost exclusively instead of the three or four I used to visit.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Hipper where I live survival without a car is very difficult. As I noted, the Wilson's did not overwhelm, but it could have been the recording.

 

[oldsysop]

I'm here for Amir measurements.
Also because I can say that I will never have a class D amplifier, I will never have self-powered speakers, I will never have a speaker with a woofer smaller than 12 inches and that I like vintage equipment and tube sound.
As long as I don't talk about liquid audio, or angels in the media, or pristine quality, or organic sound and other lies, in ASR I will be respected.

 

[Stellabagpuss]

l landed on ASR after reading a few reviews. l find the test figures interesting, but l tend to be disappointed by test methods, when products are not tested to full potential.
I chuckle when a product gets a bad review, then all the ASR experts wade in.
ASR is the best for Gutter Press Reviews, it's the Audio Forum equivalent of The Jeremy Kyle Show.
l look forward daily to the posts, and it gives me daily enjoyment .
O forget to mention, l love my Nissan Micra, l wonder if l purchase a jitterbug for the car stereo it will improve BHP

 

[RayDunzl]

ASR is the best for Gutter Press Reviews, it's the Audio Forum equivalent of The Jeremy Kyle Show.

To me, the initial post of a review is often like an episode of Mythbusters, but the replies sometimes can devolve into the Jerry Springer Show.

 

[Stellabagpuss]

To me, the initial post of a review is often like an episode of Mythbusters, but the replies sometimes can devolve into the Jerry Springer Show.

Jerry,Jerry,Jerry....lol

 

[RayDunzl]

Hey that reminds me:

I stayed at The Roadrunner Motel in Shenadoah Texas for a while, and the lady that ran the front desk during the day was not there. I asked, and found out that she and her daughter would be on Jerry Springer the next day.

Ah, they painted it and turned it into a Days Inn. It was all truck drivers and day laborers back in 1992.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[mansr]

To me, the initial post of a review is often like an episode of Mythbusters, but the replies sometimes can devolve into the Jerry Springer Show.

Or, occasionally, Jerry Seinfeld with Kramer as the bumbling manufacturer trying to defend his honour.

 

[MRC01]

@RayDunzl said what I was going to say, better than I would have said it. So maybe I should stop typing.

I used to race cars in SCCA, owned a few fun cars, drove a few more, then later discovered that slow airplanes are more fun than fast cars.
I've played flute (all sizes) & sax (mostly bari) since I was a teenager.
The first stereo I owned: when I was in college I worked 2 jobs 60 hours a week and ate PB&J sandwiches to save up enough to buy a little Harmon Kardon PM645, Polk Audio 10Bs, a Thorens turntable and an Onkyo DX-530.
Been involved in math & computers since back then too (first computer had tape drive and 16k RAM).

The above contains key ingredients to being an audiophile: techno-nerds who love music.

Music is the form of art that has always been most expressive and speaks to me. Making it or hearing it live is best, though a good recording that sounds realistic all the way down to the barely perceptible subtle details makes the illusion more compelling, enhancing the experience artistically and emotionally.

Combine that emotional appeal with intellectual curiosity about how that all works, has kept this hobby interesting over the years. I find that this forum has some of the best informed people and most interesting discussions. I've learned more here than other places.

 

[MRC01]

I hate it in traffic with my Miata. ...

One of the best handling cars in the world. It's light and near perfectly balanced. Put some R tires on it and the fun never ends. The C8 corvette is impressive, but it is at least 1,000 lbs. too heavy. Sure it has enough power to move all that weight, and it holds the road well. But that mass makes it less nimble, slowing down transitions in the slalom & switchbacks. Sadly, this is a trend with modern high performance cars being much too heavy. A car 1,000 lbs. lighter with the same P/W ratio will be just as quick and far more nimble.

 

[Blumlein 88]

One of the best handling cars in the world. It's light and near perfectly balanced. Put some R tires on it and the fun never ends. The C8 corvette is impressive, but it is at least 1,000 lbs. too heavy. Sure it has enough power to move all that weight, and it holds the road well. But that mass makes it less nimble, slowing down transitions in the slalom & switchbacks. Sadly, this is a trend with modern high performance cars being much too heavy. A car 1,000 lbs. lighter with the same P/W ratio will be just as quick and far more nimble.

I also have a C5 Corvette. People ask me why I'd have two sports cars. But they are very different cars. For local driving the Miata is the ticket. If I want to take a trip out of town over a long distance the Corvette is the better choice.

 

[Ron Texas]

I also have a C5 Corvette. People ask me why I'd have two sports cars. But they are very different cars. For local driving the Miata is the ticket. If I want to take a trip out of town over a long distance the Corvette is the better choice.

I love Corvettes.

 

[CDMC]

Hopefully my response is not too stream of consciousness:

1) I grew up around music, my Dad trained to sing opera in Germany, his entertaining partner was a composer married to a concert pianist. I never learned to play an instrument, but was always interested in the equipment and reproduction.
2) People here are pretty intellectually honest with themselves, something that seems to be sadly missing in many forums now.
3) Amir keeps a tight lid on personal attacks.
4) I believe that there is a lot about sound reproduction that we don't understand and never will without careful objective research. The more we measure, the more we research, the more we can correlate measurements to perceived sound. Sitting around waxing poetic about why one product is better than another without any basis other than "my ears say so" doesn't float my boat.
5) I don't have the knowledge or skills to go play with the big kids on the DIY boards that build their own stuff and critique one another's designs.
6) I am sick of reading things like "analog is better than digital because it has infinite resolution" and "you should try xxxx power cord, it will transform your system". That said, I do believe that I have heard very minor differences in cables, but couldn't tell you which was more accurate or "better", and I am not confident that I could hear the differences in a blind test.
7) I am tired of seeing ever increasing prices for equipment that is no better than less expensive equipment. $50,000 DACs, $100,000 Amps, $500,000 speakers baffle me. Audio jumped the shark in the 90's and apparently a bunch of people followed it in spending ever more money. Even Richard Vandersteen seems to have lost sight of his reasonably priced speakers.

 

[artismo]

I’m here because I was the fastest swimmer, my atoms were luckily arranged well-enough to produce an ability to hear, I developed a natural attraction to sound and science, I like numbers, and I get hard-ons when I see a well-laid-out PCB board.

 

[IndividualWay7]

I just joined because it seems like a this place doesn't get angry when objective viewpoints are brought up. Most places are just filled with annoying audiophiles who rather waste money or the inexperienced noob who gets swayed by misinformation who then thinks its fact.

I've already got -10 on Reddit because apparently I'm stupid for liking the ER4SR over bassy gear and notice no issues with BA drivers?.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I have been a music lover all my conscious life.
Up until I left home I was content to listen to music on really basic equipment I was completely unaware of anything else existing. At school we had an all in one mono record player, at home a radiogram. I made recordings on a mono reel-to-reel tape recorder but listened to them happily on the tiny built in speaker.
When I left home for my first job I missed playing records, I just had my tape recordings, so I decided to see what a record player cost. I went to the local music shop and bought a magazine or two - all the magazines were technical back then and stuff got measured, the subjective reviewer BS was still years away.
Anyway I was an engineering apprentice with little money but a bit of aptitude and I first bought a Garrard SL75 turntable, was surprised it didn't come with a cartridge - I had a lot to learn - bought a ceramic cartridge and wired it mono so I could play it through the microphone input of my tape recorder.
All the while I had no interest in or, perhaps, sensitivity to, what is known as sound quality.
Anyway I built some kits to get stereo and was happy enough just listening to the music I liked.
Then I went to University, Imperial College in London, to study mechanical engineering and found myself fascinated by dynamics ie vibration and sound.
I still had no money though and spent what I had on records not equipment.
In my final year I did get the equipment bug and started DIYing better kit.
Then I got a full time job in Noise and Vibration Research which gave me more money and a better insight into how stuff works.
I started buying better kit and even went to work for Garrard as an engineer for 18 months or so on my way to working in Motor Racing full time, which had always been my goal.
The technical side of record players was pretty well understood back then (1975) though then, as now, lots of engineers and pretty well all non-engineers use static thinking for dynamic systems so are wrong on most things dynamic.
Once the subjective idea of reviewing kicked off such that people with little or no understanding of how things worked (and therefore what was plausible) took off and no measurements were done I found it exasperating.
I had more money and less time but knew performance improvements would come from transducer improvements, though I did buy electronics suitable to drive my speaker choice or matching systems to look nice.
Here is an oasis of good sense and politeness most of the time and I don't bother with any other site much any more.
I have all the kit I will ever need this lifetime so am not planning to buy anything more (that doesn't mean I won't though )