In-Ceiling Speakers: Time to cut the wires?

[MediumRare]

I am in the fortunate position of building a new house in the next few months and being able to plan audio for the whole house from scratch.

My dedicated listening area will be in the basement with a "high-end" two-channel + sub system. So that's no issue.

But what about the rest of the house? I'd like audio in the living room, dining room, kitchen etc. Can I avoid installing speaker wires at all and just put in electric points in the ceiling for active wi-fi or Bluetooth speakers? I figure I will save thousands on wiring and amps and be able to spend more on better speakers - if these ideal items even exist?

What should I do?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well you'll have to have wires to power any such speakers. I'd go ahead and put wiring to get the signal there. Whether you go with self powered or not is the other thing you'll have to decide. I'm not up on all that is available in that regard myself.

 

[scott wurcer]

I ran some decent Belden twisted pair everywhere, took pictures before the blueboard, and even tied a bundle of nails to each drop so I could find it later magnetically.. Never used any of it. As for expense this was no more than the price of a 500' spool of wire. Come to think of it that might have been 1000'.

 

[watchnerd]

I am in the fortunate position of building a new house in the next few months and being able to plan audio for the whole house from scratch.

My dedicated listening area will be in the basement with a "high-end" two-channel + sub system. So that's no issue.

But what about the rest of the house? I'd like audio in the living room, dining room, kitchen etc. Can I avoid installing speaker wires at all and just put in electric points in the ceiling for active wi-fi or Bluetooth speakers? I figure I will save thousands on wiring and amps and be able to spend more on better speakers - if these ideal items even exist?

What should I do?

Just get Apple Homepods for cheapo ambient back ground music. Way less hassle than in-wall/in-celing.

That's what I use in the rooms away from the 2 main rigs (living room and studio being the good systems).

Works great with Roon, too.

 

[Cbdb2]

Running power is a lot more expensive, just the wire, then you need boxes etc. also kinda ilegal if your not an electrician and not to code. A 1000' box of belden 14gauge is not that expensive, and easier to run.

 

[dc655321]

Sonos.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Can I avoid installing speaker wires at all and just put in electric points in the ceiling for active wi-fi or Bluetooth speakers? I figure I will save thousands on wiring and amps...

How is running electrical cheaper than speaker wire?

...and be able to spend more on better speakers - if these ideal items even exist?

They don’t exist.

I don’t think you’ve thought this thing through. Starting with, how to you keep an amplifier from overheating in a 150-degree attic? Or working in below-freezing temperatures? Not to mention the rest of the required electronics, such as the receiver section. The military has electronics designed to work in extreme condition, so I suppose it can be done. But how many consumers would be willing to pay what it would take to build speakers like that? Rather than “saving thousands,” it’ll cost you thousands. Probably easily a couple grand for each one, if not more.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[amirm]

I ran thousands of feet of various wires in our home but none in the ceilings. It is a terrible way to play music, pounding on your head. With personal music, headphones, SONOS, etc., I don't see the need for it. If you do run the wires, be sure to take videos. I find them a lot more useful than just pictures.

 

[MediumRare]

How is running electrical cheaper than speaker wire?

When building a house, an extra electrical outlet is relatively cheap to add when you're already doing 100. Bringing in an audio installer to run lines from multiple rooms (including second floor) to a central audio rack in the basement ain't cheap. Plus 10 channels of amps and some kind of source for each room ain't cheap either.

Personal headphones don't work so well when hosting a party.

Sonos is the exact idea, but I was hoping there were some alternatives.

 

[watchnerd]

Sonos is the exact idea, but I was hoping there were some alternatives.

Meaning you're looking for wireless?

There are a couple of different options beyond Sonos -- BlueSound / BluOS, the Dynaudio "Music" Series, Apple HomePods, Devialet Phantoms ....what's the price range you're looking to spend and how many rooms?

 

[MediumRare]

Meaning you're looking for wireless?

There are a couple of different options beyond Sonos -- BlueSound / BluOS, the Dynaudio "Music" Series, Apple HomePods, Devialet Phantoms ....what's the price range you're looking to spend and how many rooms?

Four or five rooms. Price isn't so much a factor - I want it to sound good, but it won't be for critical listening. The idea is to keep it wireless with control of all the rooms by one tablet and avoid putting a bunch of amps in a media closet in the basement. I feel like active speaker tech is advancing so fast, wired speakers will be out of date as soon as I install them.

 

[watchnerd]

Four or five rooms. Price isn't so much a factor - I want it to sound good, but it won't be for critical listening. The idea is to keep it wireless with control of all the rooms by one tablet and avoid putting a bunch of amps in a media closet in the basement. I feel like active speaker tech is advancing so fast, wired speakers will be out of date as soon as I install them.

What's your current playback software / server?

Roon? Volumio? Airplay?

 

[freddi]

50+ years ago, John Karlson had a ceiling version of his "asymmectric projector. It was called the "AP9C" and made of heavy gauge stamped steel to employ a 6x9" dual cone driver and fit into standard drop ceilings. MISCO has a nice looking 6x9

dunno if I've still a picture or not - it was a nice looking product with perforated steel grill. The dimensions below would allow you
to mock it up for testing

AP9C STUFF

https://imgur.com/QLvQ3th

https://imgur.com/C0EZS17

https://imgur.com/DiejaiL

 

[Wombat]

I had a new house built(never again). I ran all the HiFi cabling and told the builder to let me know when the drywaller got on site. He didn't and the drywaller just went ahead and covered it all in. My protests were met with "it's not written in the contract". Hard lesson learned.

 

[MediumRare]

What's your current playback software / server?

Roon? Volumio? Airplay?

Currently use OS X Audirvana via USB and Bluetooth but could easily change for the best multi room app.

 

[Willem]

We went through some of this ourselves when we had our house built two decades ago. Dry wall construction is not a Dutch thing - we have brick and reinforced concrete walls and ceilings plus some big steel colums and beams to allow very large windows, so not great for wireless. In-wall/ceiling speakers are not really easy to do therefore, apart from the questionable sound quality
I have some suggestions:
1 get as many power outlets as you think you need all over the house, and multiply the number by at least two.
2 get empty plastic pipes from a central point to every room, for wired ethernet or for whatever new technology will arrive. Using such empty pipes gives a fair amount of flexibility later on (we use electricity pipes, not sure what you have in the US). The cost is very low when a house is built. We are so happy to have wired ethernet almost everywhere now (and cable television before).
3 use Sonos or similar to integrate the system (we use CCA).
4 for those rooms where esthetics may matter and where sound quality should be better than basic, think where you may want to locate a hidden amplifier and where you may want to have the speakers. Again, install empty plastic pipes, this time for speaker cables.

 

[Neddy]

It IS amazing how fast 'labor intensive' solutions evolve - I recently had to pull out some original (90s!) phone wiring b/c it was too messed up to pass network signals, and went with powerline LAN units.
Now, if only this thing would gather steam in the market place:
https://www.wisaassociation.org/member-products/wisa-certified-speakers/
WISA spec'd JBL 305s would be sweeet.
(Yes, still need AC.)

 

[MediumRare]

We went through some of this ourselves when we had our house built two decades ago. Dry wall construction is not a Dutch thing - we have brick and concrete walls and ceilings. In-wall/ceiling speakers are not really easy to do therefore, apart from the questionable sound quality
I have some suggestions:
1 get as many power outlets as you think you need all over the house, and multiply the number by at least two.
2 get empty plastic pipes from a central point to every room, for wired ethernet or for whatever new technology will arrive. Using such empty pipes gives a fair amount of flexibility later on (we use electricity pipes, not sure what you have in the US).
3 use Sonos or similar to integrate the system (we use CCA).
4 for those rooms where esthetics may matter and where sound quality should be better than basic, think where you may want to locate a hidden amplifier and where you may want to have the speakers. Again, install empty plastic pipes, this time for speaker cables.

That’s why I’m thinking no more tubes/wires. All that Ethernet cable is obsolete with WiFi. Same for speakers? New technology is wireless, but is it ready?

 

[MediumRare]

It IS amazing how fast 'labor intensive' solutions evolve - I recently had to pull out some original (90s!) phone wiring b/c it was too messed up to pass network signals, and went with powerline LAN units.
Now, if only this thing would gather steam in the market place:
https://www.wisaassociation.org/member-products/wisa-certified-speakers/
WISA spec'd JBL 305s would be sweeet.
(Yes, still need AC.)

Yes, now we’re talking! Edit: After a little reading, looks like it’s for one room at a time, not a "whole house" solution.

 

[Willem]

It may be ready in the future, but for now I am not so sure. I admit that this may depend on construction technologies, as our Dutch homes are not as wireless friendly as US dry wall homes. Our two studies both have wired ethernet for greater reliability and speed and we are still very pleased with that. The bedroom CCA system is wireless and not quite stable - that bedroom is in a far corner of the house and above a heavy steel beam. We also have an extension/garden room where we could only have wireless by first taking it there by ethernet. All these problems are even bigger with the 5 GHz band, while on the 2.4 GHz I compete rather a lot with the neighbours.